[foxsquirrel]

I've just started a job where the only CAM software I have is MC. My only other experience with CAM software is OneCNC XR3. I've enjoyed and also been frustrated by the post-editing experience. In my last job we used OneCNC to just post to regular Fanuc. Easy-as! But this job has entailed me creating a working post for the Okuma I run as an edit from a generic HAAS post!

Every time I think I've got it to the point where I feel it'll do what I want, I find a snag. But, like CNCRim mentioned, you need to work through it. Ask some decent questions on this forum. Try posting dummy programs using altered post files (after backing-up your last-know-good post first!).

It seemed daunting at first because Okuma language, though originally based on Funuc, is quite different in its coding. (Canned drill cycle Z-retract height differences are just the beginning!)

But, with help from some kind people here on CNCzone, I've been able to work the glitches out. Dummy posting and pst-file trawling is quite rewarding! Especially when it leads to being able to post with confidence.

With my limited experience, Cswife, should you choose MC, make sure you have working, proven posts as part of the deal when you sign. That and some training on post customisaton as the need will most probably arise!

Good luck,

Luke

That is similar to the Siemens 850SX control, it has a little different R plane and something else that made a high pucker factor.

[foxsquirrel]

sounds a bit rough, you still should have support available ( even phone support )

but, unless I'm mistaken, a HASP doesn't expire, apart from allowing you to run your mastercam and your posts, it enables you to install Maintenance Updates (MU) when they are available before the Mainenance expiry date. ( Check the eMastecam site, you may still have updates available to install )

The same goes for virus software, it should run till the cows come home, but you can only update the virus databases up until the end of the currency period. Obviously you are stuck with a product that is only as good as the latest update pack.

In my opinion, if there are failings in the specific use you purchesed it for, then, this would be a defective product, and thru your trade practices act, should be fully refundable or replaced with a correctly functioning product that is capable of doing the pre-defined criteria, ( that you specifed when initially purchased ) (this is your get out of jail ticket, if things don't work to your satisfaction ).

I know there is other software available that can do the same as Mcam
and I don't advocate that this one is better than that one. It is not my choice, ( or money ) to nake the final decision. I try to supply correct info that others can make a fully informed choice.

So guys, put the knives away, and get back to supplying info for thread starter.

I did not think before typing, the expiration date on the HASP not HASP itself timed out.

A lesson has been learned regarding software puchasing, the CAM software reps have been getting a work out and faced with the questions they would rather avoid.

[TheBigJW]

Well since the question was cost.... Be warned that CNC software and your dealer will charge you what they think they can take you for. After we purchased there was a 30% price increase in maintenance. A paid 150.00 for a new hasp and someone else posted theirs was 50.00. So it's the luck of the draw. Will your dealer screw you or not.

John

[TheBigJW]

Well since the question was cost.... Be warned that CNC software and your dealer will charge you what they think they can take you for. After we purchased there was a 30% price increase in maintenance. A paid 150.00 for a new hasp and someone else posted theirs was 50.00. So it's the luck of the draw. Will your dealer screw you or not.

John

Oh ya. And if your not happy with your dealer too bad. Can't shop elsewhere. At least here in Canada. So if you don't like the service your getting you just have to buy another software package. Yep. Just throw that one out. Why not just buy something people are happy with.

John

[cad01]

Tips For Manufacturing Training CD's, DVD's for Mastercam, Edgecam, SolidWorks, Inventor, G-Code Training & More
http://www.tipsforcadcam.com

Sites like these are much harder to find, if they even exist, for other CAM software. MC has a much larger user base, so you will find more support sites.

[foxsquirrel]

Oh ya. And if your not happy with your dealer too bad. Can't shop elsewhere. At least here in Canada. So if you don't like the service your getting you just have to buy another software package. Yep. Just throw that one out. Why not just buy something people are happy with.

John

They are still using the "old" model, it will only be a few more lean years and they will have to change. I don't like this online Demo crap at all. At least MC, Gibbs, Solidworks will send a real person out. SolidCam and Visual Mill and the others like the online "go to meeting" demo's. It does save alot of money and the Demo Tech has a better training since that are at Corp HQ.

[foxsquirrel]

Sites like these are much harder to find, if they even exist, for other CAM software. MC has a much larger user base, so you will find more support sites.

You are right about the much larger base BUT you must requalify that. How many are actual legal license holders? Those sites are aiding software piracy. This site is just as bad, many of questions on here are from people that obviously have not paid for it. Our MC rep actually came out and installed the software on the machine and made sure it did function.
Sadly, the Big Dog and Super MC hero unknowingly pass premium knowledge along to the pirates. Why should I pay for it and they get to run it for free. If you don't believe me look back a couple of months and some one from Africa did admit he was using a pirated version. His honesty about that was shocking to me but he seems to think rich americans should give him technology, my next question is who gave him the CNC machine they are running??

[Superman]

How many are actual legal license holders? Those sites are aiding software piracy. This site is just as bad, many of questions on here are from people that obviously have not paid for it. Our MC rep actually came out and installed the software on the machine and made sure it did function.
Sadly, the Big Dog and Super MC hero unknowingly pass premium knowledge along to the pirates. Why should I pay for it and they get to run it for free. If you don't believe me look back a couple of months and some one from Africa did admit he was using a pirated version. His honesty about that was shocking to me but he seems to think rich americans should give him technology, my next question is who gave him the CNC machine they are running??

Define "legal license holders", don't forget to add those that are handed out thru tech schools. People that load this software can be termed legal users.

Passing on info can be hazzardous at times, yes, pirate copies do exist. We cannot police that side of the fence, but we can pass info that can be found elsewhere, tips and tricks that help others willing to learn the CAD and CAM skills

I am very guarded about handing over a complete post, especially one that has taken considerable time and effort to get right. I try to offer guidance in understanding the post format, so they may customise their post ( a 5 axis post won't run on their HASP anyway. It would also have to be obtained thru a post supplier/reseller at one stage or another).

I'm sure you have been supplied info without having to prove you are a legit user....maybe we should have people supply a HASP # on their registration page or similar

[foxsquirrel]

Define "legal license holders", don't forget to add those that are handed out thru tech schools. People that load this software can be termed legal users.

Passing on info can be hazzardous at times, yes, pirate copies do exist. We cannot police that side of the fence, but we can pass info that can be found elsewhere, tips and tricks that help others willing to learn the CAD and CAM skills

I am very guarded about handing over a complete post, especially one that has taken considerable time and effort to get right. I try to offer guidance in understanding the post format, so they may customise their post ( a 5 axis post won't run on their HASP anyway. It would also have to be obtained thru a post supplier/reseller at one stage or another).

I'm sure you have been supplied info without having to prove you are a legit user....maybe we should have people supply a HASP # on their registration page or similar

I was not aware of them giving out a seat at tech school, that would have been cheaper to take a class than to buy the software. At one time AutoCad was the Big Dog in CAD but their educational/student copy had a one year time lock, that was many years ago.

[Superman]

I was not aware of them giving out a seat at tech school, that would have been cheaper to take a class than to buy the software. At one time AutoCad was the Big Dog in CAD but their educational/student copy had a one year time lock, that was many years ago.

Yeh, it is only a demo copy of Mcam. Your reseller should be able to advise better or obtain. I also think it is supplied with some of the manuals thru the schools.
-Uses an .EMCX extension to file save
-no HASP required
-full mcam functionality
-no posting capability
-no ability to bring the session into a HASP controlled seat
( means you can't program at home, then bring it to work and post it )

-not sure if it can run a proper .MCX session as "READ ONLY"
( this would be good for an operator to see toolpaths and what to expect in the program )

[cad01]

-not sure if it can run a proper .MCX session as "READ ONLY"
( this would be good for an operator to see toolpaths and what to expect in the program )

Yes, you can open .MCX files, but as you stated earlier, saves as .emcx so no posting
This is a great resource for training though. We have a few employees at my work that have taken a copy home to learn MC. Ask your reseller for a copy. Ours charged us the cost of shipping only, but again, as stated earlier, I guess it depends on your reseller. The company I work for have been loyal customers since v7, and have ALWAYS paid our maintenance dues. This may explain why we have such great customer service from our reseller (MCAM NW).

[Mike Mattera]

"MCam NW" Good People.

The Mastercam X4 Home Learning Edition (HLE)is much more useful than the older "demo disk". Being able to save a file is very helpful to people who want to take the time to learn Mastercam at home. You cant export in any other file format and you cant post, but being able to save your toolpath and come back to it later is very useful. It even does 5X toolpaths.

You can open an Industrial file (.MCX) in an Educational version. If you save it, it will become an .EMCX. That can NOT be opened in the Industrial version.

Some dealers will charge for a HLE Disk. It does take some time to burn and label DVD's. Then there's the postage cost. Any of you business owners knows that you have to pay employees to work, so any thing they do is a cost. But generally if you're a loyal customer, on regular maintenance, they'll usually just send one out.

Mike Mattera

[SBC Cycle]

This is a reply from another thread. It would have been a derail and since it will be on topic here:

Wow so John has an issue with his dealer and you are going to walk away. Well Bobcad has allot of upset people all around. All dealers are not the same.

JM2C

No, it's not a dealer problem at all. It's not really even a MasterCAM problem. I just don't buy into the maintenance thing at all.

Honest question:

You buy a 17k car and you discover that there is a defect with the brakes. The defect is impossible to fix yourself because the car comes from the manufacturer with a sophisticated lock system that prevents you from tinkering with it. You can still drive it, but you can't take it on the freeway because it won't stop at speeds that high. You suffer through the problem for 2 years because you can't get a refund, you can't sell it, and quite frankly, you really like the car. Finally, the manufacturer comes up with a solution. So you take the car to the dealership and the dealer pulls up your service record.

Dealer: Mr. Cadcam, we see that after the first year you didn't have your brake pads changed here like you were supposed to. We're sorry but your going to have to fork over all the money you would have spent on brake pads this last year before we can fix you up.

You: But why would I keep paying for brake pads that didn't allow me to stop at freeway speeds? I might have considered bringing it back in if you could have fixed the problem. Since you couldn't, I didn't want to keep paying for faulty parts.

Dealer: We're sorry, that's just the way it is.

You: Well I'm not paying. In fact, I'm the one who reported the brake problem to you in the first place. You should thank me for finding the problem!

Dealer: Well we are sorry to hear that Mr. Cadcam. But we still aren't fixing your brakes until you pay up. Just be thankful that we aren't taking the keys to your car like we did in the past.
---------------------------------

Alright, so in my research the other night, having nothing to do with John's thread, I read this on a resellers website:

Mastercam X4 – MU3 Update
By mcamnw | Published: February 8, 2010
X4 Maintenance Update 3 Product Release - Third update to Mastercam X4 – Web Download – Self-Extracting EXE mastercamx4-mu3-web.exe 02/01/10 286MB

NOTES:
Mastercam X4 MU3 is a cumulative installation that contains all of the bug fixes in X4 MU1/MU2 and more. All of the translators have also been updated to the 2010 versions. This must be installed on top of Mastercam X4 or X4 MU1 or X4 MU2. If X4 MU1 or MU2 is already installed on a system, the “Mastercam X4 MU1 (or MU2)” entry in Add / Remove Programs (Programs and Features in Windows™ Vista and 7) will be replaced with the MU3 entry. If MU3 is uninstalled, your Mastercam version will be rolled back to X4.

You must have maintenance through 12-31-09 to run X4 MU3. The Mastercam.exe version number is 13.3.0.22.

Now my question is, is there ANY excusable reason for a software company to withhold bug fixes from a paying customer?

[foxsquirrel]

I second that!!!!

[Mike Mattera]

Software that has functions designed to be used a specific way, will always be used in ways not imagined by the software designer.

So to use your example. "My brakes are not working improperly".
If you buy an economy car and attach a big camper trailer to it and drive up and down the mountains, you will...
- Burn up the brake pads, drums, rotors.
- Your brake fluid will over heat and become ineffective.
- Stopping power will be reduced.
- Wheel bearings may be damaged.

Does this mean the car has faulty breaks?

Also keep in mind that on a Car, the manufacturer has complete control of all the components that are used to assemble it.

Software may be run on any one of 1000's of mother boards, built buy 100's of different manufacturers, with 100's of different video cards, whose video cards may have dozens of different drivers. Every new update of Windows can throw a new problem into the works. Would drive a car that was powered by Windows Vista?

When you modify a Car the warranty goes out the window, because they cant control components or installations that are not part of the original design of the system.

I know Mastercam is not perfect. They have issued Service Packs for non maintenance customers. But for most customers, it's smart to buy the extended warranty ( i.e. Maintenance Contract). Because if suddenly a Windows update causes Mastercam not to work in AMD Quad core processors with 8GB of RAM, It's just not something that Mastercam could have tested for.

Mike Mattera

[TheBigJW]

Or for that matter take functionality away if you don't pay.

John

[Superman]

I put this up on the Emastercam site ( 1 year ago ) with no real answer

My post

I'd still like to know how users do stand from a legal viewpoint

[SBC Cycle]

Software that has functions designed to be used a specific way, will always be used in ways not imagined by the software designer.

So to use your example. "My brakes are not working improperly".
If you buy an economy car and attach a big camper trailer to it and drive up and down the mountains, you will...
- Burn up the brake pads, drums, rotors.
- Your brake fluid will over heat and become ineffective.
- Stopping power will be reduced.
- Wheel bearings may be damaged.

Does this mean the car has faulty breaks?

Also keep in mind that on a Car, the manufacturer has complete control of all the components that are used to assemble it.

Software may be run on any one of 1000's of mother boards, built buy 100's of different manufacturers, with 100's of different video cards, whose video cards may have dozens of different drivers. Every new update of Windows can throw a new problem into the works. Would drive a car that was powered by Windows Vista?

When you modify a Car the warranty goes out the window, because they cant control components or installations that are not part of the original design of the system.

I know Mastercam is not perfect. They have issued Service Packs for non maintenance customers. But for most customers, it's smart to buy the extended warranty ( i.e. Maintenance Contract). Because if suddenly a Windows update causes Mastercam not to work in AMD Quad core processors with 8GB of RAM, It's just not something that Mastercam could have tested for.

Mike Mattera

All excellent points Mike but if you don't mind me saying so they all somewhat miss the mark. I'm not going to pick on MasterCAM because I don't have it and can't comment on any particular issues users may have had. As you rightly said EVERY software has issues that can pop up, I would be skeptical of any claim that MasterCAM is exempt. So I will ask has MasterCAM ever had an issue that has affected all users, regardless of their hardware? If so, is there any reason a legal owner should be denied a fix?

[Mike Mattera]

As stated above...

"They have issued Service Packs for non maintenance customers. "

That's what they do. They're a pretty stand up company.

Now, that being said, some people will always have problems with some dealers. Some personalities will clash. Some customers seem to do nothing but complain. When you get a call and the guy starts by saying "This software is a piece of crap and it doesn't work right", without ever telling you what the actual problem is, it's gets hard to take. In most cases we all like to solve problems and not just listen to complaints. My particular favorite is when you tell a customer how to solve his problem and he says "I dont want to do it that way". He'd rather do it the way that doesn't work and complain about it. I've also found, thru personal experience, that when someone calls to report a software bug or a problem with his post, 70% of the time, he's doing something wrong.

No software is perfect, but we generally have good success finding a work around, if the customer will let us help him.

I dont want to guess...
- what your problem is
- what it's doing/not doing
- what you tried to make it work
- what version your using
- your PC hardware and OS
- your experience/training level

When you say "It Doesn't work" or "It's Broke", those mean nothing to diagnosing a problem.

Giving this information to your reseller (or the people on this forum) helps him get to the root problem quicker.

Mike Mattera

[TheBigJW]

So use the customers to find the bugs then charge them for the fix. That is the new business model.

What if the root of the problem is our dealer raising the cost of maintenance 40% after we purchased. They rely on you being reliant on their software then they go for the throat. 40% really come on.

John