[A_Camera]

hi everyone,

Im new here.
I wonder if someone can help me figure out how to fix my Chinese card.
It is a model which I have been unable to find any information about
this is the driver:
Attachment 283574
this is the back
Attachment 283576

Hi,

This may sound crazy to you, or even rude, but in my opinion the best way to fix that driver card is by placing it in a garbage bin and getting something which does not need any fixing. I went through a lot of pain, wasted a lot of time, used two of the same cards up before I came to conclusion that all of that was waste of time. Regardless how much time you spend, you will ALWAYS have some problems left to be fixed. My electronic knowledge is very high, I have all the instruments needed, but in the end, there is simply no point in fixing it. If you want to know more about the road I went down, you can visit my blog and read the full story. The short version is that my problems were solved once I replaced that blue card with three separate drivers, NOT based on the TB6560 and my CNC is now working perfectly without any issues and also much faster than I could ever get with any of the two cards I "fixed". Anyway, if you are interested, read the story on my blog. Here is the link to the first of six parts, and I will conclude everything later on with a part 7 as well.

I am sorry you fell into the same trap I did. It seems like those cards are in endless supply and will never stop, even though Thoshiba stopped making those TB6560 chips a long time ago because of all the errors in the design of the chip, which NOBODY ever can fix.

[cncneeb]

DURANGO, same board arrived just today, identic with DURANGO's here. hows the modification going there, buddy? any informations? dont tell me to quit this board,buddy. i need this for educational and for low precission 3D printers. i havent turn on the board whatsoever, since i fear it might be exploding in an instant like yours.

PETSAT, i am going to follow PETSAT's ESSENTIAL MOD GUIDE, which are:

1. NEVER power up the unit without motors connected to the outputs and do not unplug a motor when the board is powered up. The poor grounding (note2) may destroy the 6560 chips.
COMMENT: okay, easy to follow
2. Ground the heat sink for each TB6560 through its mounting screws. In the current design, there is a danger of blowing all chips if one goes bad. Adding the grounds helps protect them all.
COMMENT: okay, boss, done, and done
3. Disconnect the current reduction feature. This generates extra pulses and is not useful.
COMMENT: i'm gonna search for this feature in the board, and disconnect it (simply disolder a resistor or a cap, related to this function, right?)
4. Pin 7 on driver chip has a cap that sets the internal frequency. Replace the 1000pf capacitor which is installed with a smaller value capacitor (150 to 330 pF).
COMMENT: i unscrewed the heatsink, and the tiny SMD capacitors are actually below the heatsink. this is easy to replace.
5. Clean up the pulse to Clock (Step) and Direction signals. The pulse coming from the computer through the optocouplers is very slow on rise time (because of the optocouplers). The chip misinterprets the signals and misses steps. Bypass optocouplers.
COMMENT: i will look for this part in this thread, and i will probably ask some more questions. please help me later
6. The way the ICs are getting power violates the manufacturers guidelines for power up and power down sequence. Do not use a single switch on the power line coming from the power supply. Either power the ICs on/off by a separate power supply or use a dedicated powerup/down circuit to deal with the sequence matter.
COMMENT: i dont actually understand this one, i am a total newbie in electronics and cnc. please give more detailed info, PETSAT

[john-100]

hi

page 28 of the TB6560 data gives the details of the power on / off sequence : -
to power on
switch the +5v logic supply on and once the logic supply is stable switch on the motor supply
follow reverse sequence to power down

Attachment 289884

note - for some boards the advertised maximum motor supply is 40V- the Absolute Maximum Ratings
instead of 34V - the maximum Operating voltage !!!
if I had a TB6560 board I'd look for a 28V supply to give a margin for error

the heatsink tab will be connected to the IC's substrate and needs to be the most negative connection
the data sheet does not indicate if the substrate is connected to any of the pins

for example this simple 5 transistor IC (CA3045) clearly shows the substrate being connected to the emitter of one transistors (pin13)
Attachment 289886

violate the requirement to make the substrate the most negative terminal and parasitic transistors that are an unintended result of the fabrication process
can be switched on , the resulting un controlled currents are likely to destroy the IC

see page 3

Attachment 289888

if the TB6560 heat sink is not connected to ground
a faulty IC will pass damaging currents into the other TB6560 ICs on the board !!!

john

[cncneeb]

JOHN, thanks for the detailed infos about the power sequence.i will be following it for sure. you are like someone passing by on the streets and helping others who are lost.

1. i think i will buy 24V power supply, according to you and h500's suggestions. he said he feared the board will self destruct when the voltage passes about 24v.

2. can someone please show me the "current reduction mechanism" on the board that has to be cut off?

3. and also, PETSAT's comment: "Clean up the pulse to Clock (Step) and Direction signals. The pulse coming from the computer through the optocouplers is very slow on rise time (because of the optocouplers). The chip misinterprets the signals and misses steps. Bypass optocouplers"
i dont understand this one too, actually. can someone show me the mechanism to do this?

many thanks

[petsat]

3. and also, PETSAT's comment: "Clean up the pulse to Clock (Step) and Direction signals. The pulse coming from the computer through the optocouplers is very slow on rise time (because of the optocouplers). The chip misinterprets the signals and misses steps. Bypass optocouplers"
i dont understand this one too, actually. can someone show me the mechanism to do this?

many thanks

CNCNEEB, sorry for the late answer, I was away for some time.

Thread #217 here:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...ftware-19.html

You will get al the info for the subject. If you need more details just ask.
There will be always someone near" to help you cross the road"

Petsat

[A_Camera]

There is just so much work with this card and in the end you will NEVER get it working properly anyway, so it is a complete waste of time and money. But...

...never the less, I wish you good luck in learning the lessons I, and many others already learned.

[petsat]

There is just so much work with this card and in the end you will NEVER get it working properly anyway, so it is a complete waste of time and money. But...

...never the less, I wish you good luck in learning the lessons I, and many others already learned.

A_Camera, look it as an unfinished chinese kit!
You try to fix it and make it work.
Enjoy the process!
The result might dissapoint you but you have learned so many things making this journey!

That describes our lives also!!!!

Petsat

[FelixZ]

Hey all

I also bought the TB6560 controller and tried some fixes with success some time ago (#765). I wouldn't describe my efforts as waste of time as I learned a lot. It is a fact, however, that this controller can't deliver high performance even with all the fixes. I had problems with very noisy motors when not moving. They got very hot even on low current settings and I was very limited in speed due to lost steps. The last point was probably caused by the high inductance of the motors (which came in the same set with the 24V power supply and the controller board). This board may be suitable for a low end application and may work better with a better matching motor-voltage combination.

I have upgraded my system to three separate M542T stepper drivers combined with three new, low inductance motors and a new power supply (48V). I have to say it was totally worth it, even though every driver cost as much as a single three-axis TB6560. I now ran into the limit of the mach3 kernel speed of 35000Hz for rapid movements (1/16 step). The motors make absolutely no noise and don't get hot when not working (low current feature of the driver I think).
I recommend before you buy a driver or stepper motor take a look at what you need exactly. Don't trust the boundled ebay/aliexpress offers.
Study a basic stepper guide like this one. Especially the section 9. I should have read this before buying anything.

After all I have to say this TB6560 controllers are not suitable for a CNC machine which has to be highly reliable. Nevertheless I kept my board for future use in another device.

Felix

[A_Camera]

A_Camera, look it as an unfinished chinese kit!
You try to fix it and make it work.
Enjoy the process!
The result might dissapoint you but you have learned so many things making this journey!

That describes our lives also!!!!

Petsat

Been there done that...

...so I know what I am talking about.

If you are interested you can read the full story here:

Adapting Camera: My CNC story (part 1)

Beware, long post and long story, describing a long and winding road. Currently 6 parts but more coming.

[A_Camera]

Hey all

I also bought the TB6560 controller and tried some fixes with success some time ago (#765). I wouldn't describe my efforts as waste of time as I learned a lot. It is a fact, however, that this controller can't deliver high performance even with all the fixes. I had problems with very noisy motors when not moving. They got very hot even on low current settings and I was very limited in speed due to lost steps. The last point was probably caused by the high inductance of the motors (which came in the same set with the 24V power supply and the controller board). This board may be suitable for a low end application and may work better with a better matching motor-voltage combination.

I have upgraded my system to three separate M542T stepper drivers combined with three new, low inductance motors and a new power supply (48V). I have to say it was totally worth it, even though every driver cost as much as a single three-axis TB6560. I now ran into the limit of the mach3 kernel speed of 35000Hz for rapid movements (1/16 step). The motors make absolutely no noise and don't get hot when not working (low current feature of the driver I think).
I recommend before you buy a driver or stepper motor take a look at what you need exactly. Don't trust the boundled ebay/aliexpress offers.
Study a basic stepper guide like this one. Especially the section 9. I should have read this before buying anything.

After all I have to say this TB6560 controllers are not suitable for a CNC machine which has to be highly reliable. Nevertheless I kept my board for future use in another device.

Felix

Exactly. Except that the only change I made was that I threw out that blue board and replaced with 3 separate DQ542MA drivers, which are equivalent to the ones you have. The hissing noise went away immediately, speed increased considerably, heat decreased significantly and so on. I did not change the motors or the power supply. I would guess that increasing the power supply, which I intend to do later, will increase the performance even more.

Yes, I also learned from my efforts, but the most important lesson I learned was NEVER again waste so much time on a single problem ever again. I should have bit the bullet earlier and realized that the blue card is NOT fixable, there will always be some issues with it. That controller chip is has serious bugs in it and there is no way anyone can fix that because the bugs are inside the chip. That's why Toshiba stopped making them.

[mark.a]

a_camera how did you get on with those DQ542MA drivers. i am looking at a couple now.
are the easy to install?. thanks

[FelixZ]

Hey Mark

The DQ542MA seem to be a Wantai product (wantaimotor on eBay -> also selling those TB6560) and look similar to my M542T (I got them from Stepper Motor & Stepper Motor Driver - StepperOnline). The Leadshine M542 and DM542 are also looking similar at first sight. I think it doesn't matter very much which one you choose, just make sure they match your motors and power supply.

Felix

[durango100]

Look, i finally just limit the energy up to 50% and i havent got explosions lately... is been working fine, so i decided no to do anything else

[A_Camera]

a_camera how did you get on with those DQ542MA drivers. i am looking at a couple now.
are the easy to install?. thanks

No issues at all. Took me a few minutes to connect each one for a test ride and after that the decision was easy to make. I threw out that blue board, changed the wiring and installed the DQ542MA drivers and never looked back. The only mistake I made was wanting to use USB, but never the less, that was the USB driver problem, which was also easy to solve by changing it with a simple break out board. Another thing which is completely wrong AND dangerously implemented on the blue board is the opto isolation. With that board you live dangerously and risking your computer. With the DQ542MA and the properly isolated break out board also that problem is solved.

In other words, don't hesitate, get those. OK, I can not guarantee anything, except that my drivers are perfect, but the only thing I regret was that I didn't make this move quicker. The DQ542MA is easy to install, very reliable and no problems at all. My stepper motors never had higher temperatures than 54 C. I have a temperature sensor on each motor and monitor the temperatures, so I know this is the case, and to reach 54 C I have to move that axis quite heavily. Temperature goes down to 40-47 C if the axis is mostly on hold. There is ZERO noise when the CNC is in idle, unlike with the blue board, which always had that hissing noise.

[A_Camera]

Look, i finally just limit the energy up to 50% and i havent got explosions lately... is been working fine, so i decided no to do anything else

Good luck. 50% of what? The problem is not that running at 100% of power makes the card explode, the problem is that the whole card is wrong, right from the start. That TB6560 chip from Toshiba has bugs in it and also the card has some serious design errors. You can never ever get it right and will ALAWAYS risk blowing up of your computer because of the wrong opto isolation design of the card, you won't have proper isolation and already that should be enough to throw away that card. Not to mention speed, current, disturbing hissing noise and so on. I spent many hours fixing my cards... to a limit, it was fun to get it working, but in the end, I wanted my CNC to work better than that card would ever provide.

So, 50% of what?

[cncneeb]

PETSAT, alright, thanks for the answer! i am looking at it right now. and i will get back asking again later . and i agree with the board being unfinished and has to be fixed for low level works in future. i will do some low level precision works with it only, since it will get much trouble in future. but nonetheles, this board is worthy of fixing

A CAMERA, thanks for the considerations about using this board. i will use better boards in long term. i am actually waiting for DM542A boards i bought from longs-motor 1 week ago. i think it is very similar to yours from wantai-motor, and i am eager to see how that is running. i am watching your website right now, and seems like it get so much info. why dont you make a youtube channel for your cnc setups, u will deliver plenty of infos. and i would love to see how your DQ542 drivers work too! when i see my DM542 boards dont do well, i will switch to your DQ542!

DURANGO, do u mean, u decrease the Voltage? do u make it 24V now? and u lower the speed by 50% too? thats what i will do to get the board to work, by not pushing it

FELIXZ another kind of 542 boards, cool! i am going to work with DM542A from longs-motor. i would love to see how yours work, bro! i will keep the TB6560 board for low level dificulty works like you do too! and congrats on being success on fixing the chinese board. thanks on the info to learn basic stepper drivers. your drivers seems more expensive than A_CAMERA's, though

[A_Camera]

A CAMERA, thanks for the considerations about using this board. i will use better boards in long term. i am actually waiting for DM542A boards i bought from longs-motor 1 week ago. i think it is very similar to yours from wantai-motor, and i am eager to see how that is running.

Yes, I think those are the very same boards, just different brand names. I bought mine from wantmotor111, which I think is the same seller as wantai-motor. Mine were shipped from Germany, so they arrived after just a few days. I had to pay a bit more but I needed those fast, so it was OK. In fact, I got one extra as a replacement for the break out board which the seller could not deliver, so now I have one spare also.

i am watching your website right now, and seems like it get so much info. why dont you make a youtube channel for your cnc setups, u will deliver plenty of infos. and i would love to see how your DQ542 drivers work too!

Thank you. There will be at least one more part, as final documentation the whole CNC. Not sure I'll have the time to make instruction video, at least not so soon, there are so many instruction videos on Youtube already. I will however definitely make some video showing it working, and I have already made a few, but because I built this CNC for a special purpose, so that purpose is currently the main priority for my video time.

[aarggh]

Generally the *542 drivers seem to be pretty good quality, I haven't heard adverse reports on them. The Leadshine ones I can attest to as being rock solid and great performers.

Cheers, Ian

[A_Camera]

Generally the *542 drivers seem to be pretty good quality, I haven't heard adverse reports on them. The Leadshine ones I can attest to as being rock solid and great performers.

Cheers, Ian

I think these are identical copies under different brand names and the only difference is the quality of documentation, which may very well be an important thing. I opened all of mine to check the build quality and my 4 DM542A drivers and they are well build, with nice and clean soldering and worked right out of the box so the quality is very good, as opposed to the blue board.

[cncneeb]

Good luck. 50% of what? The problem is not that running at 100% of power makes the card explode, the problem is that the whole card is wrong, right from the start. That TB6560 chip from Toshiba has bugs in it and also the card has some serious design errors. You can never ever get it right and will ALAWAYS risk blowing up of your computer because of the wrong opto isolation design of the card, you won't have proper isolation and already that should be enough to throw away that card. Not to mention speed, current, disturbing hissing noise and so on. I spent many hours fixing my cards... to a limit, it was fun to get it working, but in the end, I wanted my CNC to work better than that card would ever provide.

So, 50% of what?

DID YOU SAY "BLOWING UP YOUR COMPUTER"?!?!?!?!
this is what i fear the most. did someone really ever blow his computer by using this board? i really have to be super careful with this chinese stuff