[cncneeb]

I run my mill and laser cutter off of some Compaq EVO laptops (WIN XP and Mach3). I bought 5 of the laptops off of Ebay for $125 total, shipped, loaded with legit OS's. Microsoft Office, and some other software. If something happens and I fry the laptop, OMG! I'm out $25. What most people consider to be obsolete trash is a VERY capable 2 GHz, 2GB computer. There is absolutely no need to buy/hook up an expensive computer and get it anywhere near a hunk of spinning iron.

That said, I started with one of these Chinese stillborns and quickly switched to a Gecko 540. I gave the Chinese board to a friend to play with and he been using it for years without any problems... it might help that he is rather deaf and hissing steppers don't bother him.

can you point me the 25$ laptop, man? thats a brilliant idea to use such cheap laptops, actually. i think old laptops are best. that is, if they can operate well

[texaspyro]

Yeah, laptops can have issues with things like auto-power/clock-reduce, parallel ports, etc. I found a post on a forum that mentioned a guy used a Compaq EVO N610 with Mach3 and it worked just fine, I looked on Ebay and found them listed at the time for mostly around $50-$150. There was a Buy-it-Now listing for $125, tested, guaranteed, with software. Seemed reasonable. Then I noticed it was for a lot of 5 units!. And with 8 good batteries. A few weeks later I snagged another one for $35. I traded that one to a guy that runs LinuxCNC on it.

There is an ap-note on the Mach3 site with tips on configuring Windows XP to run best with Mach3. Mostly things like killing all the startup programs, disabling power management, screen savers, etc.

I spent around $50 more pimping out one of the units with a DVD writer, floppy drive (!), more memory, bigger hard drive, etc. It's just plain freaky stupid the values you can find in old laptops.

[petsat]

Some laptops don't play nice with the parallel port.

cheers, Ian

Could not agree more on that!
The main issue is that the 25pin parallel port gives an output of 3.4 volts. The card needs 5volts to work properly, so there is another issue here. There are always ways to work around it, but needs time and basic electronics knowledge to deal with it.
I use an old DELL Latitude D800 I salvaged from a friends recycle bin. It works like charm!

Petsat

[petsat]

PETSAT, thank you very much for all the detailed answers! u should be the master of this board, manufacture, and sell it, so the chinese can stop making this board so lamey and sell them as firecrackers. i think your board which is fixed very well, deserves to be sold in high price, maybe 40% of the gecko. i have DM542 boards just arrived, and i will get back to this board when i am "alreadt smart" with them. i have ZERO knowledge of CNC stuffs, and i have just seen stepper motor for the first time. i am really afraid of burning any $$$ (i think i have just done it by buying this board) much further. l will get back with this later, and when im done fixing it, i will make a video in youtube, with much credit given to u, A_camera, aarrgggh, duranggo, felix_z. thank you for your nice answers and infos, PETSAT

Dear cncneeb,
I don't deserve all the credits you gave me.
All the info I gave here come from all contributors of this forum. My only contribution is the on-off circuit that I designed and made.
Anyway, thank you for your kind words. I am nothing special just another hobby machinist who likes fixing, repairing and mostly LEARNING and HELPING people by sharing the few things I know.
As long as you are happy with your choices keep going!
Enjoy your hobby and help others enjoy their hobbies.

Petsat

[cncneeb]

Could not agree more on that!
The main issue is that the 25pin parallel port gives an output of 3.4 volts. The card needs 5volts to work properly, so there is another issue here. There are always ways to work around it, but needs time and basic electronics knowledge to deal with it.
I use an old DELL Latitude D800 I salvaged from a friends recycle bin. It works like charm!

Petsat

PETSAT and TEXAS, i am in the middle of deciding, whether i should buy a desktop or a laptop. i have 100$ second dual core laptop with 1gb ram, or 100$ desktop dual core with 2gb ram. personally, i choose laptop anyday, easy shipping, and my cnc can be portable if i build it small enough.
what really cause laptop to be not so good with serial comm, and if the problem lies in the 5V logic, can we simply add a step up voltage circuit and it will work just fine? i havent even tested my DM542 boards since my laptop doesnt have any serial comm. and what is auto power/clock-reduce?

[texaspyro]

Laptop parallel port should work just fine. Even at 3V output, that is above the switching threshold for TTL, 74HCT, and even 74C logic. There might be some devices with issues, but I have never had any issues with them driving stuff... and I have a lot of stuff that runs off of parallel ports.

I would go with the laptop first. Nice compact package with a display and keyboard all in one. Try to find one with a real hardware serial port, not a USB converter. It makes life so much easier and more reliable.

The main issues of laptops driving CNC's is the potential for automatic power management features to kick in at an inopportune moment. Running the laptop off of the wall supply can usually avoid that. Also check for aggressive power management settings in the BIOS and operating system. Find that ap-note from the Mach3 web site that talks about configuring systems for proper operation with Mach3...

[petsat]

The main issues of laptops driving CNC's is the potential for automatic power management features to kick in at an inopportune moment. Running the laptop off of the wall supply can usually avoid that. Also check for aggressive power management settings in the BIOS and operating system. Find that ap-note from the Mach3 web site that talks about configuring systems for proper operation with Mach3...

First to decide if the laptop is suited for the Mach3 "as is" or it needs some fine tuning you have to run some tests:

First test. Load mach 3 and open diagnostics screen. On the right side you will see a number indicating pulse frequency.
If this number changes it is an indication of instability and lack of power of your system to support mach3.

Attachment 290574

To explore the situation in more detail run test 2:
Test 2 involves the execution of "Mach3 Driver test". This test is located in the Mach3 folder on your harddrive and is called "drivertest.exe".
Load the program and press "Start Timer". The computer will then act as if it is actively sending out commands to the CNC and will measure how many are successful.

If you computer is slow it will say "Pulsing Too Slow" and you will see a line allover the place like the following photo.

Attachment 290570

If you computer is fast enough it will say "System Excellent" and you will see a line like the following photo

Attachment 290572


Always turn off all other programs when running Mach3 (and the driver test).

Laptops have a lot of power management controls that can slow down communication over the parallel port. Here are the steps that worked for me to be able to run Mach3 on a laptop. In the end, the main problem appeared to be the processor wanting to sleep all the time, so the key was a program which kept the processor active and running at full speed all the time.

Turn off all power management in the Bios
Remove all unnecessary background processes in windows.
Install some utility to take care of the CPU clock. I use RightMark CPU Clock Utility (RMClock) -

Download Page (Download. CPU Rightmark)

Download and install the CPU Rmclock v 2.35

On the profiles screen from RightMark for "AC power profile" select "MaxPerformance”.

Hope this is clear

EDIT:

Of course if you buy a desktop computer there is no power management as in laptop and it runs "as is" without any modifications needed.

Petsat

[aarggh]

What make are the DM542's you bought?

My preference for a first cnc machine would be a PC instead of a laptop, one thing less to troubleshoot if things don't quite work as expected.

cheers, Ian

[cncneeb]

TEXAS and AARGGH, do i have to make the ram 1gb or 2gb for the cpu? and win7 or winXP? i agree on laptop being more compact, all in one-thing and i agree on PC being less trouble shoot solution, i am in the middle of choosing.
my DM542 is from longs-motor. i have seen reports on how china DM542s work very well, when replacing TB6560. i think we should steer people away from tb6560 into CHINA tb6560. i will get mine to work, and will give report via this thread.

PETSAT, thanks for this answer! exactly what i need to make decision about which comp should i buy! do u think win7 is better than winXP, and do i really have to make the ram 2gb over 1gb?

[cncneeb]

TEXAS and AARGGH, do i have to make the ram 1gb or 2gb for the cpu? and win7 or winXP? i agree on laptop being more compact, all in one-thing and i agree on PC being less trouble shoot solution, i am in the middle of choosing.
my DM542 is from longs-motor. i have seen reports on how china DM542s work very well, when replacing TB6560. i think we should steer people away from tb6560 into CHINA tb6560. i will get mine to work, and will give report via this thread.

PETSAT, thanks for this answer! exactly what i need to make decision about which comp should i buy! do u think win7 is better than winXP, and do i really have to make the ram 2gb over 1gb?

[texaspyro]

Unless you are doing really big files, 1GB should be fine. I've never run into a limit running Mach3 on XP with 1GB... of course 2GB us probably better. It cost like $10 to upgrade my laptop to 2GB.

I use XP on my machine controllers. It think it has fewer operating system features trying to protect yourself from yourself, getting in the way, or trying to phone home to Bill Gates. One thing I never do is connect a Windows box to he internet.

[petsat]

do u think win7 is better than winXP, and do i really have to make the ram 2gb over 1gb?

Mach3 is designed to run on XP! That does not mean it will not run on win7 but I would stick to the designers suggestion.

As for the ram the more the better! My system was running with 1Gb ram for long time without any issues! I increased the ram to 2Gb (my systems max) just to be on the safe side.

Petsat

[cncneeb]

sorry for late reply, i was waiting for mach3 support team to answer me.

here it is:

" first of all laptops with serial ports are not supported for our software. they have issues. Second the pin converters 15/25 also will not work for Mach3. Third is I would not recommend they inexpensive breakout boards like the one from ebay that you sent me the link for, there is no support and they are prone to premature failure, and or not working. I would also caution you from buying or using the copies of Mach that that suppliers sells they are not an authorized re seller and the copy that they send with their products is a pirated version that is not supported and has issues. Best regards Jim "

PETSAT and TEXASPYRO, i will try secondhand 2GB RAM, dual core, windowsXP laptop, then, if it doesnt work well, just sell it and buy dualcore desktop. the desktop shipping DOES kill me a lot, so i am forced to work with laptop if possible.

the support team didnt say that laptops dont work well, just "they have issues". thats prety unclear, and your laptops work very well, so i have to give a try.
i think the support team hates chinese boards also, since the chinese send boards with a FREE MACH3 CD.

[A_Camera]

sorry for late reply, i was waiting for mach3 support team to answer me.

here it is:

" first of all laptops with serial ports are not supported for our software. they have issues. Second the pin converters 15/25 also will not work for Mach3. Third is I would not recommend they inexpensive breakout boards like the one from ebay that you sent me the link for, there is no support and they are prone to premature failure, and or not working. I would also caution you from buying or using the copies of Mach that that suppliers sells they are not an authorized re seller and the copy that they send with their products is a pirated version that is not supported and has issues. Best regards Jim "

PETSAT and TEXASPYRO, i will try secondhand 2GB RAM, dual core, windowsXP laptop, then, if it doesnt work well, just sell it and buy dualcore desktop. the desktop shipping DOES kill me a lot, so i am forced to work with laptop if possible.

the support team didnt say that laptops dont work well, just "they have issues". thats prety unclear, and your laptops work very well, so i have to give a try.
i think the support team hates chinese boards also, since the chinese send boards with a FREE MACH3 CD.

NOT free Mach3, PIRATE copy. There is a difference...

The second point is that I don't understand that part about 15/25 converters. There is no serial port with 15 pins, so converting that would be totally pointless. Even if there would be a special case, converting will NEVER work because motion control is different from a printer. So, if your PC has a 15-pin port then you can just forget about that port. 15 pin ports are used for game controller and VGA, and in your laptop the 15-pin port is most probably a VGA port. Don't try to convert that to 25-pin, it is totally pointless waste of efforts.

Yes, generally laptops MAY work, but also, they may not.

[petsat]

sorry for late reply, i was waiting for mach3 support team to answer me.

here it is:

" first of all laptops with serial ports are not supported for our software. they have issues. Second the pin converters 15/25 also will not work for Mach3. Third is I would not recommend they inexpensive breakout boards like the one from ebay that you sent me the link for, there is no support and they are prone to premature failure, and or not working. I would also caution you from buying or using the copies of Mach that that suppliers sells they are not an authorized re seller and the copy that they send with their products is a pirated version that is not supported and has issues. Best regards Jim "

PETSAT and TEXASPYRO, i will try secondhand 2GB RAM, dual core, windowsXP laptop, then, if it doesnt work well, just sell it and buy dualcore desktop. the desktop shipping DOES kill me a lot, so i am forced to work with laptop if possible.

the support team didnt say that laptops dont work well, just "they have issues". thats prety unclear, and your laptops work very well, so i have to give a try.
i think the support team hates chinese boards also, since the chinese send boards with a FREE MACH3 CD.

For the hardware, isn't htere a local market for 2nd hand desktops? Local papers, internet, flea market etc?
Any friends willing to throw away their old systems?
As you put it postage is always a killer for cheap things...

Whatever you get, Make sure your system is in good condition. Hard disks are a usual cause of failure on laptops, HDs + capacitors on desktops. Test everything you can, install a clear copy of XP SP3 (new installation).
Test how mach3 runs doing the tests I mentioned earlier

If you are not happy Optimize the system for best performance.

(Google for "Windows XP Professional System Optimization Guide")

Some things you can do are

6. Disable Automatic Updates
1. Right Click My Computer and select Properties
2. Click Automatic Updates tab.
3. Uncheck Keep my computer updated..
4. Click OK.

7. Disable Remote Assistance
1. Right Click My Computer and select Properties
2. Click Remote tab.
3. Uncheck "Allow Remote Assistance Invitations.".
4. Click OK.

12. Disable Startup Program Group Items in Start Menu
1. Right click Start button and choose Open.
2. Double click Programs.
3. Double click Startup.
4. Delete anything you think you don't need.
5. Close window.

16. Set Windows Theme to CLASSIC
1. Right-click on your desktop, and then click Properties.
2. Click on Themes tab
3. Set Themes to Windows Classic
4. Hit OK

17. Disable Indexing on all NTFS drives
1. Double click My Computer.
2. Right click on hard drive and choose Properties.
3. On bottom, uncheck "Allow Indexing Service to index this file for faster searching".
4. Hit OK.

20. Disable MSN Messenger
1. Double click on the Messenger icon in the system tray to open it.
2. Skip thru the internet and sign up stuff, just cancel it.
3. When Messenger loads go to Tools -> Options then Preferences.
4. Uncheck 'Run this program when windows starts'

21. Disable Power Management
1. Right-click on your desktop, and then click Properties.
2. Click on the Screen Saver tab.
3. Set Screensaver to None.
4. Press the Power button near the bottom.
5. Set all options to NEVER shut down automatically!

22. Disable Wallpaper
1. Right-click on your desktop, and then click Properties.
2. Click on the Desktop tab.
3. Where it says Background, scroll all the way up and choose None.
4. Click OK.

23. Disable System Sounds
1. Click Start Button.
2. Click Settings.
3. Click Control Panel
4. Double click Sounds and Audio Devices.
5. Click Sounds tab.
6. For Sound Scheme, choose "No Sounds".
7. Click OK.

25. Install Programs

Do not install any programs you will not use. Only install programs that you DEPEND on for what you do on your computer. Keeping things lean and mean will keep your system fast and stable.

26. Maintain Hard disk
1. Double click on My Computer.
2. Right click on Hard Disk and choose Properties.
3. Click Tools tab.
4. For Error Checking click Check Now. Do before Defrag!
5. Click Defragment Now, AFTER Error Checking completes.
6. Click OK.

Petsat

[cncneeb]

sorry for not being clear. i asked him too, about using serial converter, from 15pin to 25pin (when i hadnt known about the 15pin being vga port before u told me), and thats why his answers were kinda mixed together

certainly i will buy a laptop with genuine 25pin ports, and follow PETSAT instructions to maximize the possobility about running it at max potential, A_Camera

[cncneeb]

PETSAT, holly cow! thanks for the more detailed optimization instructions! i will definitely do that. my town is an expensive town when it comes to this thing (for some reasons, in asia countries small towns like mine, used laptops and desktops are still very expensive).

i will definitely follow your instructions, PETSAT!

[A_Camera]

Petsat, that is an excellent list, which I believe many people could use and should be made a sticky on it's own.

Cncneeb, Why are you saying "certainly i will buy a laptop"? In my opinion it is better to buy a desktop or a mini tower PC. Those are always more powerful, easier to use for this type of tasks and are normally cheaper.

[cncneeb]

A_Camera, the shipping of desktop can kill me as it is even more than the desktop itself. i cant buy local ones too. for some reason, local people in my town resell their desktop as if it is a gem, and they usually have only single core. and no market in here. this is no third world town, but 4th world, worst kinda town.

i will try toshiba sattelite dual core laptop. if it doesnt work well, i will then buy a desktop.
i definitely choose the desktop for first choice, more reliable, less dificult troubleshoot, easy to add ram, no hogus bogus like powet management software or bios that will mess up the serial communication, etcs.

[cncneeb]

A_Camera, the shipping of desktop can kill me as it is even more than the desktop itself. i cant buy local ones too. for some reason, local people in my town resell their desktop as if it is a gem, and they usually have only single core. and no market in here. this is no third world town, but 4th world, worst kinda town.

i will try toshiba sattelite dual core laptop. if it doesnt work well, i will then buy a desktop.
i definitely choose the desktop for first choice, more reliable, less dificult troubleshoot, easy to add ram, no hogus bogus like powet management software or bios that will mess up the serial communication, etcs.