[lokii]

Hi I'm fairly new to CNC, I have been looking to add to my existing machine shop a smallish CNC mill. Thus far I have narrowed it down to two Haas VMC's

The Mini Mill and the Office Mill OM-2.

I just wondered if anyone has experience of either these machine?

My finances are limited so I have to get the choice right first time.
Both Mills have the capacity I need, as far as 3 axis are concerned.
But I am looking to add a 4th & 5th axis as I need them, so which is the better?

Cheers

Chris

[GermanTec]

Your finances are limited? Buy the Mini Mill.

You looking to add the 4th and 5th axis? Buy the Mini Mill.

[lokii]

Your finances are limited? Buy the Mini Mill.

You looking to add the 4th and 5th axis? Buy the Mini Mill.

Thank you

[Pondo]

I looked into the same question before I bought my Minimill.
The decision was made for me because of the limited power of the office mill. The Minimill is a fully functional, full power machining center where the office mill is more like a table top light prototyping machine.
Plus, with the 6K spindle the non-SS Minimill is run on "house" 220V, no 3 phase power converter needed in my garage.
Plus, I had several thousand $ of 40 taper tooling from my VF-3 that works in the Minimill.
The only thing that would be better with the office mill would be the size if that's a big concern.

[L8Train]

lokii,
Have you looked into the DT-1? This is also a good choice the spindle is as powerful as the Mini Mill and you can run it upto 15K. It is also a much faster machine the biggest drawback is the 150 lb weight limit but that can be exceeded by slowing down the rapid accelaration and anchoring the machine. Even with the reduced rapids it will be faster that the Mini Mill.

[Haas__man]

If you are looking to install 4th and 5th axis later then it might be an idea to go for the minimill 2 instead. It has longer X and Y travels and you can have the side mount tool changer so that you don't have tools hanging down and getting in the way of the rotary tables.
The DT-1 is a great - superfast machine but with limited finances you may be better off with a minimill or minimill 2.

Hope this helps.

[aadrew10]

I have used both the mini mill and the office mill. Only get the office mill if you have the space constraint. The Mini Mill will cut material quite a bit faster than the office mill. I believe both are equally accurate. I ended up buying a Mini Mill and absolutely love it.

[lokii]

Thank you all for your input. I have contacted my local Haas Dealer, just waiting for them to get back to me.
I have found a Super Mini Mill for £15k used stock, other than a more powerful spindle, is it worth considering over a Mini Mill?

[GermanTec]

The SMM has more RPM, More rapids, a faster Toolchanger, but the Normal MM has more max torque. You need speed to safe time, the SMM is faster, but if you only make 10 parts from the same, you don't need the fast machine.

Personally I don't like the SMM because the rapids on the toolchanger are verry high and I must more often fix problems on the Toolchangers as by the Mini Mill.

[lokii]

The SMM has more RPM, More rapids, a faster Toolchanger, but the Normal MM has more max torque. You need speed to safe time, the SMM is faster, but if you only make 10 parts from the same, you don't need the fast machine.

Personally I don't like the SMM because the rapids on the toolchanger are verry high and I must more often fix problems on the Toolchangers as by the Mini Mill.

Thanks, for that. I think for my needs the Mini Mill is going to be the better option.

[robwhi]

The Big Issue most are missing is what do you want to do with the machine?

I do small Aluminium Molds about 150mm x 150mm and the office Mill wins hands down . I do not need a EDM as I can get into areas with a very tiny cutter you just cannot do with a Mini mill or similar with a .25mm cutter

A mini mill with out putting a high speed spindle on it is totally useless for small intricate molds unless you have days to waste, I get a order one day and deliver a moulded component the next. I spent a lot of time looking at a lot of gear and traveling around the world and to find a machine like the office mill for the price with a 30 000 rpm spindle that is half decent will cost you more than twice the price. have you Costed a similar DMG?
Watch makers in Switzerland use a lot of the office mills these days as it is excellent value

I know of a fair few Mold shops now that have a larger mill and are using a office mill to do what a edm use to do.

Sorry Guys Once you have a 30 000 rpm spindle you won't go back it is not all about fast metal removal but what you can do with it

I now want a 50 000 come on Haas Guys

Cheers


Rob

[lokii]

Thanks Rob,

Whilst I don't produce moulds, I think High speed spindle would be of benefit to some of the more intricate work I do.

Something to think about

[JohnJW]

The Big Issue most are missing is what do you want to do with the machine?

I do small Aluminium Molds about 150mm x 150mm and the office Mill wins hands down . I do not need a EDM as I can get into areas with a very tiny cutter you just cannot do with a Mini mill or similar with a .25mm cutter

A mini mill with out putting a high speed spindle on it is totally useless for small intricate molds unless you have days to waste, I get a order one day and deliver a moulded component the next. I spent a lot of time looking at a lot of gear and traveling around the world and to find a machine like the office mill for the price with a 30 000 rpm spindle that is half decent will cost you more than twice the price. have you Costed a similar DMG?
Watch makers in Switzerland use a lot of the office mills these days as it is excellent value

John

I know of a fair few Mold shops now that have a larger mill and are using a office mill to do what a edm use to do.

Sorry Guys Once you have a 30 000 rpm spindle you won't go back it is not all about fast metal removal but what you can do with it

I now want a 50 000 come on Haas Guys

Cheers


Rob

Hi Rob,

One of the things I wonder about Haas machines is that the spec on their machines from VF3 to OM1 all have .0001" repeatability and .0002" accuracy. I thought OM have a smaller milling envelop so surely they must have a higher accuracy than a VF3. . . but on paper they are the same, so if the VFs and the OMs have the same accuracy, why not get a VF and stick a air spindle in it and go up to 30,000+ rpm, and mill 100 tiny parts at a time instead of 5 for not that much more in cost?


John

[Geof]

I will disagree with Germantec, in my experience the tool changer on the Super Minimill is no more prone to problems than the standard Minimill, in addition the Super does have more torque than the Mini at the same rpm. Go for the Super, I have two Minimills and six SuperMinimills, the higher spindle speed, faster rapids and faster tool changer produces much faster cycle times.

[GermanTec]

I will disagree with Germantec, in my experience the tool changer on the Super Minimill is no more prone to problems than the standard Minimill, in addition the Super does have more torque than the Mini at the same rpm. Go for the Super, I have two Minimills and six SuperMinimills, the higher spindle speed, faster rapids and faster tool changer produces much faster cycle times.

It's my personally experience that we have more problems with the toolchanger mechanics on the SMM as by the MM if they have the same toolchanges (upper 200 000),but only with the Shuttles. Because there allways run "full power" in the mechanical stop, screws loosened, parts worn out etc.

So, a lot of times on older machines we change the fast shuttle motor with the normal Mini Mill shuttle motor. You don't need verry much time for a toolchange but the mechanical parts keeps longer.

If the Price are the first ting, I mean the Mini Mill is the better way to start cheaper.

[robwhi]

John

That would be like using a sledge hammer to repair a watch. LOL
Make 100 Molds of the same thing at once?


John the issue is that I would need probably up to 10 air spindles to do tool changing as I don't use a .25mm mill all the time it would take a month of sundays to make one mold. I prob use up to 10 different tools sometimes more on a intregate mold and I haven't even done some of the more technical jobs I have yet to attack.
The real reason I didn't go the Minimill is using a lot of decent air spindles is a lot more expensive than the extra cost of the office mill and its envelope is well within what I do. Another big plus for me was the small size with the limited room I have

I also have to put the 5 axis on yet just working on a fast changeover system

Regards


Rob

[WayneHill]

We have several MiniMills in service (4 and 5 axis) and will purchase more as needed.

[double a-ron]

Why is it that no one ever mentions the massive 40 inch wide table on the minimill2 as a selling point? You have to go to a vf-3 to get a wider table. It may sound useless because 10 inches on each side are out of reach of the spindle, but it allows us to put an hrt-160 on one side of the table and the tail stock on the other and machine something 16" long. See pics 1 and 2. The machine is at the travel limits in each pic, also that's a 6" vise between there. No other machine in Haas's lineup allows you to use almost all of your travel like that. I only wish we would have got the smm2. Not just for the higher spindle speed, but I would love the through spindle coolant option.

That was our first cnc, when we bought it we were thinking about what we needed a machine to do based on the work we were doing at that time. When it was time to buy a lathe we thought about the work we wanted to do or could be doing some day, so we went with a fully loaded tl-15 sub spindle lathe. Used. Best decision we ever made.

One more thing. Geof, I was wondering how you came to the conclusion that the smm has more tq than the regular mini at the same rpm. The super has 17 lb/ft at 4600 rpm whereas the mini has 33 at 1200rpm. Don't get me wrong I'd still rather have the 10,000 rpm spindle or better yet the 15,000 rpm option.

sminimill2
http://www.haascnc.com/specs.asp?ID=...C#VMCTreeModel

minimill2
http://www.haascnc.com/specs.asp?ID=...C#VMCTreeModel

[aadrew10]

Why is it that no one ever mentions the massive 40 inch wide table on the minimill2 as a selling point?

What year is your minimill?

[Pondo]

I never thought about that either, but I have a 44" long 1" thick AL plate that I mount in there for running some long parts. I have done the same thing as the post above with the indexer out of the range on the RH side too. The oversize table is very useful.