[RomanLini]

BobLalonde- Re that DC motor 11000 RPM is a little low, ideally you would want to be running th emotor at about 1/2 its rated voltage (to allow overhead for cutting load and speed control) which means it's ideal running RPM would be maybe 5000 RPM?

Most of the cutting tools and router bits are optimised for 10000 RPM or more so it's probably not an ideal motor choice. Typical routers which are 25k to 30k RPM are ideal as they will perform very well in the 10k-17k range with the SuperPID.

Also there is a benefit buying even a cheap router compared to a motor as you get the collet and rugged lower bearing etc all set up to be used as a spindle with no fussing trying to make your own balanced belt drive and low-runout spindle collet etc.

Ericclinedinst- I don't have a any info on the C10 breakout board but it should not be difficult. The SuperPID "TACH" output is a squarewave that goes from 0v to 5v. That is very standard. That needs to be connected to one of the "logic level" inputs on the C10 breakoutboard. the C10 then sends that signal back to the parallel port connector. Then Mach3 needs to be told which parallel port pin the tach signal is on.

Please give more info on the symptom or problem that you are getting, that will help.

[ericclinedinst]

Roman,


The readout is just really low. Ie when the router is spinning at 5000 rpm it jumps between 25-50 when its spinning at 10000 rpm it says 75 etc..

Also, what settings in mach am i supposed to manipulate in mach3 to read it properly?

I have enabled the "index" is that the proper one?

[airnocker]

Ok everyone! I got my Super-PID all wired up and fully functioning except for the tach output.

Here is my setup. Mach3 with a C10 breakout board from CNC4PC.com

I heard that some others here have that same setup and have gotten it setup so you can see the router RPM in Mach3.

Any insight to this?

Thanks for the help!

I know it's kind of a pain but I've posted the solution that worked for me further back in the discussion thread (with Mach3 screenshots of settings). My Super-PID was V1.1 and required some buffering between the Super-PID tac output pin and the input I used on my C1 cnc4pc board. I think many others did have this issue but you might want to keep it in mind.

[ericclinedinst]

I figured it out. I'm going to be doing a full write up soon. Including templates for painting and masking a 7518 router. Drilling template dxf files for case. And a full wiring diagram.

[Bob La Londe]

Also there is a benefit buying even a cheap router compared to a motor as you get the collet and rugged lower bearing etc all set up to be used as a spindle with no fussing trying to make your own balanced belt drive and low-runout spindle collet etc.

Uh, huh sure. That's why when I am cutting hard with one of those in aluminum I go through a lower bearing in a few weeks. LOL. With light cuts I kill one in a couple months. (Time is money)

My thought was that while a router is an easier solution this is a motor you could use in more complex solutions, like a motor driving a cog pulley for a more robust spindle. Even a "homebuilt" cartridge spindle with proper back to back ACBs in the nose instead of the single deep V groove in most routers. Run the motor at 5000 RPM with a 5:1 pulley setup and you have 25000 RPM and more for short periods, and a spindle that can take the abuse a lot better. There are plenty of smaller ACBs rated for that speed.

The motor is cheap, rectifiers are cheap, and this controller would drive it. Obviously the tach sensor would need to be on your spindle not on your motor.

I wasn't thinking of it for the average user, but as an idea for somebody reaching a little further, or who just wanted a cheap motor to play with.

[riche543]

Hello

Just finished enclosure for superpid & few other controls posted here http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1128413


Cheers
Riche


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Cheers!

[Andrew from AWC]

That's awesome. I'm slowly getting into cnc routing (just noticed the year I joined this forum) Very slowly! Where has the time gone? I'd love to find the time to make one of these for mine one day. Just ordered a super-pid Thanks for the pic of your controller and the inspiration. Is that a playstation control?

[riche543]

Hi Andrew
Yep it's a Xbox controller it allows you too control mach3 software.
I've only been hobby cnc,ing for bout 3 years & surprise myself quite often, yep box came out great but did make few tests cuts too check sizes etc with cheap 3mm mdf so I didn't waste too much acrylic .
Cheers
Riche


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Cheers!

[RomanLini]

Ericclinedinst- Great to hear you got the TACH feedback sorted out to display the RPM on Mach3. Can you please post the solution you found, even if just a single sentence as it helps readers of the thread if the solution is shown within a few posts of the problem, so they don't have to load through a number of pages when reading the thread.

BobLaLonde- Sorry Bob I didn't fully understand what you were proposing there. I remember from a while back you talking about getting a SuperPID to improve your router bearing life.

What RPM are you mainly using? You might be able to get a Taig or X2 metal machine spindle, they are made for machining metals and will take much higher loads than most routers, and would allow you to use a separate motor with pulleys to the spindle (as you said). However they are limited to max RPM, which is common on most spindles with larger stronger bearings.

Another option would be to buy top quality high-load bearings, these cost a lot more but may pop straight in your router and handle the loads and last the distance, especially since the SuperPID can be used to pick an RPM setting for best bearing life.

I can't remember from before what you were cutting that was killing bearings, but generally there are 3 things that cause reduced bearing life;
1. RPM too high (bearings have a max RPM spec, and this also reduces with loads).
2. Excess radial or axial load (bearings have a load spec, which also reduces with RPM)
3. Ingress of contaminants into the bearing especially abrasives like glassfibre, carbon fibre, etc.

The SuperPID can help with 1, and to some extent 2, as it can help to set exact RPM and feed speeds to reduce radial (side) loads. Likewise using more flutes and reducing cutting speeds reduces the peak side loads. Maybe if you name some specifics people can try to suggest options that may help on your current setup without you needing to spend money on a whole new spindle?

Riche543- Wow that's a great looking control box! It's always fun seeing people install their SuperPID into a nice looking and good functioning box.

[louieatienza]

Uh, huh sure. That's why when I am cutting hard with one of those in aluminum I go through a lower bearing in a few weeks. LOL. With light cuts I kill one in a couple months. (Time is money)

My thought was that while a router is an easier solution this is a motor you could use in more complex solutions, like a motor driving a cog pulley for a more robust spindle. Even a "homebuilt" cartridge spindle with proper back to back ACBs in the nose instead of the single deep V groove in most routers. Run the motor at 5000 RPM with a 5:1 pulley setup and you have 25000 RPM and more for short periods, and a spindle that can take the abuse a lot better. There are plenty of smaller ACBs rated for that speed.

The motor is cheap, rectifiers are cheap, and this controller would drive it. Obviously the tach sensor would need to be on your spindle not on your motor.

I wasn't thinking of it for the average user, but as an idea for somebody reaching a little further, or who just wanted a cheap motor to play with.

There is at least one builder here on the forum I remember doing just that; running a Sherline spindle with a laminate router (and possibly SuperPID) with I believe 3:1 timing belt reduction. Even with my setup, I tend to run higher RPM and feedrates and still get a good finish.

I cut a lot of aluminum on my machine, and it took over a year to finally kill the bearings on my Bosch 1617. And, I had it mounted in my router table for over 3 years previously. Cutting into a corner, plunging, or slotting in aluminum can be especially rough on a router. The "ideal" would be to use the edge of the bit as much as possible rather than the bottom.

[Bob La Londe]

BobLaLonde- Sorry Bob I didn't fully understand what you were proposing there. I remember from a while back you talking about getting a SuperPID to improve your router bearing life.

What RPM are you mainly using? You might be able to get a Taig or X2 metal machine spindle, they are made for machining metals and will take much higher loads than most routers, and would allow you to use a separate motor with pulleys to the spindle (as you said). However they are limited to max RPM, which is common on most spindles with larger stronger bearings.

Another option would be to buy top quality high-load bearings, these cost a lot more but may pop straight in your router and handle the loads and last the distance, especially since the SuperPID can be used to pick an RPM setting for best bearing life.

I can't remember from before what you were cutting that was killing bearings, but generally there are 3 things that cause reduced bearing life;
1. RPM too high (bearings have a max RPM spec, and this also reduces with loads).
2. Excess radial or axial load (bearings have a load spec, which also reduces with RPM)
3. Ingress of contaminants into the bearing especially abrasives like glassfibre, carbon fibre, etc.

The SuperPID can help with 1, and to some extent 2, as it can help to set exact RPM and feed speeds to reduce radial (side) loads. Likewise using more flutes and reducing cutting speeds reduces the peak side loads. Maybe if you name some specifics people can try to suggest options that may help on your current setup without you needing to spend money on a whole new spindle?

Well, that post was a combination of things. First and foremost it was probably just thinking out loud. I recall another poster in this thread talking about using a non-universal DC motor with a rectifier behind a SPID, and when I saw this motor so cheap I thought of that.

I do have a couple Taig spindles on the shelf, and they are rated for 10,000 RPM. One was used on my Taig and needs new bearings the other is brand new for a different project. I also considered seeing if I could put better bearings in them, but ultimately decided if I go that way it would be better to design my own cartridge with proper back to back angular contact bearings in the nose for load handling. My biggest gripe though with the Taig spindles is the monstrous weight of the motor they pair it with on such a light machine. I actually considered using a router motor with pulley reduction to drive it because a 1HP router was a fraction of what that brushless AC motor weighs.

I looked at the cartridge for the Tormach speeder, and decided it cost too much to then have to modify it for my use.

In my arsenal is also a 40K 3 phase spindle eventually planned as a companion spindle for my Hurco build project.

I think eventually I'll have one small router / gantry machine dedicated for wood cutting that will keep the SPID.

Too many projects. Too many ideas. Not enough time. Not enough money.

[riche543]

Hi

Just trying too wire up superpid but just come unstuck a little.
Does anyone have diagram for superpid with g540 & manual speed control , looked at manual page 27 shows manual & pc control but not sure which too choose for g540.

Ok just trawled though some pages & think i found answer post 1672 from darylb which roman confirmed


Cheers
Riche


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[riche543]

Ok all wired up like post 1672.
Next problem.
G540/mach3/superpid.
Went though spid manual & mach3 manual too configure , now spindle will not run though Mach I can only start spindle if I select active low in ports/pins , but then spindle is running when it should be off in Mach .? Runs at 5k rpm . I have no control of it. The only way too stop is to disable step active low in ports/pins. I'm using output pin 5 on g540 which is pin 17 port 1 in Mach? (not sure if 17 should be in step & dir? Though) tried few combinations which didn't change anything only start with active low,
Sorry for being noob not very good at explaining things in writing.
Would anyone have some screen shots of the correct setup for Mach using g540 & superpid as I'm sure it's just Mach not set correct, also if I switch over too manual while I get spindle running I have full control of rpm with knob.(5k-30k)
I also double checked my wiring and seems correct, so if someone had pics of the setup screens of Mach I can hopefully workout what's wrong
Cheers
Riche.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drools]

Riche, I know there is a schematic on the G450/Mach3/S-PID in one of these posts. It is hand drawn you just have to scroll through the many pages on the product. I cannot redraw from memory but I know it it here...
I went back as far as my page 21 I found a couple of posts.
This has to do with Mach3 setup.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1035876-post1516.html

This is a schematic, I seem to recall a hand drawn schematic but I looked at so many.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1060993-post1593.html

[riche543]

Thanks Drools
will have a proper look once in from work, but i saw straight away that i was using same pin for both output & motor step , hopefully thats all it was
Cheers
Riche.:wave:

[riche543]

G540/mach3/superpid.
So i wired it up like the pic below , Im getting confused as wiring like this diagram the pwm or vs is not used ? so is this diagram correct if i want too use mach3 too control spindle on/of & rpm but could also change too manual speed control with knob if needed?
Just attached some pics of how mach3 is set now which obviously isn't correct anyone see the problem. Just adding : is there anything that should be configured on the inputs ports/pins as well ?

[RomanLini]

Hi Riche543, I'm not a Mach3 user but at a first glance those Mach3 setup screenshots look ok.

Your modified schematic also looks ok, the switch will select between the pot for speed control or the VFD speed control from Mach3->G540.

[stewi]

Spindle output has to be 1-6 and can't be 17. You have to re-wire pin 1 instead of 17 to pin 5 of your Gecko

[ger21]

You have two options with a G540 to control rpm.
1) Use one of the two outputs and use PWM. If you use this option, the spindle step pin should be 1 or 17.
2) Use the G540's VFD output. If you use this option, you need to use pin 14 for the spindle step pin.

You should only have one item set to pin 17. You have 3.

You need to disable Ouput 2, and Output 1 and Spindle Step should be using different pins, not both the same.

Also, try setting the Min PWM % to 10, and set the pulley minimum speed to 0 to start.

[vikingboy]

Hi,
I just wanted to add to what GER 21 said, you have both the RUN signal and the pwm output using pin 17, but also in Mach3 pin 17 is by default I think also set as the charge pump pin and if I recall it as already set as such in a default install so , you may have 3 things using the same pin.

rgds,

Andrew