[sbalder]

We just picked up kind of a unique project- It is a Light Machines Benchman small VMC that we will be retrofitting. What makes it unique is that most of the original Intelitek controls and equipment were never hooked up and instead someone fitted a Yasnac PC NC control system with A/C servos that more properly belong on a full size machining center. My guess is that this was done by Yaskawa for trade show/demo purposes, training, or maybe testing.

Other than having wires scattered everywhere it appears to be complete and nearly new with every option and a few spare modules. I like Yaskawa stuff and have downloaded all the manuals and consider it worthy of my time to try to get this control running on the bench if for nothing other than to satisfy my academic curiosity.

Can anyone give me some background on the PC NC? I cannot find any information other than Yaskawa's documents. Did they actually sell any of these? Anyone have actual user experience with this that they care to share?

[iaknown]

Well I came across this post looking for some components for my own Yaskawa PCNC. I have a Mighty CNC mill with the same setup. It is actually my personal machine, only reason I have it is because I got a superb deal on it. But I do NOT recommend you investing time and money in your machine to get it working, I doubt you'll be satisfied...Where do I start? First off, the PC/NC is Windows NT based (that should tell you everything right there). Basically, Windows NT runs in the background controlling the CNC control. The stability of NT was never that good and the compatibility to use additional devices absolutely sucks, NT was not plug and play and support for it is dwindling. I have seen only a handful of machines with this system, including my own. From what Yaskawa told me, this is a system they "experimented" with for a few years, it didn't work out, so they scrapped the idea and moved on. The system looks nice when its working, it has decent navigation around the control (I am assuming yours is touchscreen) but I've had numerous problems with mine and have yet to get it running smoothly. It seems like you've done retrofits before or have some knowledge of what's involved so I'm sure you would know of some other options that have a better reputation. I'd hate to see you invest a bunch of time and money in it only to find out the same results I have when you could have a good running system if you went with a different retrofit. I like Yaskawa's stuff too but I am not impressed with this setup. These controls are pretty much obsolete since they were only a trial for a few years so I am not even sure if parts are even available. Hope this helps give you an idea of what you are getting into.

That being said, if you decide to go a different route and move on, I may be interested in your system for parts for mine (the PC side, not the servos which I imagine you could use with other controls). I may have just had a board burn out and possibly the pendant and am in dire need of some parts for it, whether or not your system is the same as mine I am not sure but let me know what you decide.

Also, if you need more information on the system just ask.

[sbalder]

Thanks for the detailed information. This is just what I was looking for as I was surprised to come across such a well-made control and ZERO information from any users of it. This thing has massive servos and I could not see anyone seriously trying to machine with them on a little benchtop VMC, so I really see this as a testing setup of some kind.

I have thought about keeping the control cabinet for use on another machine and selling the guts. Before I do that I am going to try to power it up. I will post some more information about the control / series as I find it.

Fortunately I do not have a lot of money in the system so if my stuff matches up with yours we might be able to work out a good deal.

Regards,
Steven Balder

[iaknown]

Steven, let me know how you make out. I was leery about getting the machine for the same reason, almost no one has this control and knows anything about it, but I got the machine for almost rigging costs so I couldn't say no. If it continues to be a constant problem like it has I may have to look at other options too but if I could get some spare parts from someone like you it may make sense for me to keep it. Let me know as I'll be interested if you decide to part with it. Thanks, Dave

[iaknown]

Steve, it's me again. Unfortunately I just found out I fried one of the main Yaskawa boards from the JFC10 unit. If you get anywhere with your retrofit and decide to sell within the next week or so PLEASE let me know. At this point I need a board and maybe more, so buying your setup may be the best option for me. If not I am close to ripping all this crap out and retrofitting something else that is actually proven. Keep me posted if possible. Thanks

[mactec54]

iaknown

First you trash the system, & then you want to get parts for it, I don't think for a minute, there is anything wrong with the system, These PCNC controls were never supported in the US by Yaskawa that is why you can't find much about them here, they were mostly used in Japan

It is a very good system, & if setup correctly will run as good as any other controls out there, Also Windows NT is a very stable platform for running CNC controls

NT is still used for a lot of controls

I did have all the information on these controls, but not any more

I do have some of the PDF files, but you can find these is you do a search on Google

[iaknown]

iaknown

First you trash the system, & then you want to get parts for it, I don't think for a minute, there is anything wrong with the system, These PCNC controls were never supported in the US by Yaskawa that is why you can't find much about them here, they were mostly used in Japan

It is a very good system, & if setup correctly will run as good as any other controls out there, Also Windows NT is a very stable platform for running CNC controls

NT is still used for a lot of controls

I did have all the information on these controls, but not any more

I trash the system because I currently own it and have had nothing but problems from the getgo. The one tech at Yaskawa who is the most familiar with the PCNC knows me on an individual basis from all the issues we've had, not to mention I've been told directly from their techs that it was a system they tried and it didn't work well so they moved on...so don't tell me there is nothing wrong with it. Like they would invest a bunch of money into a Windows based system and then not use it here? There is a reason hardly anybody has heard of it and you don't see them often nor can you get any information on it easily. I know, I've tried for the 2 years I've owned the machine, not to mention the guy who owned it before me since new who had Yaskawa fly out to work on it a ridiculous amount of times. You say they were used in Japan, what good does that do us here???? And they are somewhat supported in the US, at least you can get SOME questions answered by Yaskawa if you get the right tech and can also get some of the outrageously priced parts if needed.

NT may be used for other systems, I don't doubt it. What I do know is in my case it sucks. It's Pentium 2 and I don't even have any computer guys around that want to bother with it, let alone once they find out its paired to a CNC machine.

And yes, I want to get parts for it. I have a machine down and a bad board to prove it. I don't have the time to keep screwing with it like I've had to, nor do I have the time and money to retrofit the entire system at the moment. I just want it back up and running asap so I can make parts and then go from there. So if he decides to get rid of his it would be stupid for me not to offer to buy it. You can say its great all you want, I have it, yea it's decent to use when it's working but unfortunately that hasn't been often and that's exactly what you don't want on a machine made for production.

[mactec54]

iaknown

I don't blame you for wanting to get some parts if they are for sale, do you have any photos of your machine, I may no your machine as I used to work on some of these controls

Yaskawa used to have classes you could take, for setting up your control,programing,doing the ladder logic Etc,most likely they don't now on that PCNC

[iaknown]

No pics at the moment but it is a Mighty USA C42 vertical mill. It's a decent built mill, comparable to a Haas or Fadal...I have no complaints about the Yaskawa servo system it has, pretty decent rapids and a 10k rpm spindle, but the PCNC controller is another story.....

Yea I've heard about those classes in the past and also doubt they have them now for such an uncommon control. Problem is I shouldn't have to take any classes. It was a new machine that was supposed to work and have a controller that is ready to go. Even from new were a lot of bugs with the control. Some were parameters out of wack, which took a lot of experimenting, but other stuff is hardware related. The PC side is on the 3rd hard drive for who knows what reason and I've had the same Yaskawa specific boards fail in the past as I do now, which costs big $$$$$. And when you call Yaskawa, or have them fly out and throw parts at it and it continues to fail, then what? When its working (and I stress that), the setup is pretty user-friendly and looks good...programming is not a problem for me, nor is fooling with parameters but who wants to do that and be messing with hardware when the machine is down.

I've learned one thing from it, even though a control looks nice and fancy, it all comes down to product support and being able to fix the issues to have it run reliably. And from my personal experience and at least in this country, this system is very limited in those areas. What really throws salt in the wound is I met another guy (I think through this forum) with the same exact mill, but a different brand control and servo system and he has 0 problems with his, he loves it. I've always liked Yaskawa but am not impressed with this setup one bit.

[mactec54]

iaknown

I think the blame should be on the manufacture & not the Yaskawa system, as you said the machine,drives, motors are great,The control was the manufactures choice, & it looks like they did a bad job of that part

What motors & drive model numbers are on your machine, you may be able to do an easy
conversion

[iaknown]

I don't see how the manufacturer would be to blame. They chose a control that was the same brand as the rest of the system and I'm sure they didn't just pick it out of the blue, they had to consult with Yaskawa or get a recommendation from them on which control to use when they built the machine. They set the control up according to all of the requirements/specifications in Yaskawa's installation manuals and it is obviously made for the application. If you build a machine and use a reputable company's system, servo, control, etc and follow all the criteria for installing the system, it should work. I don't see how the manufacturer would be to blame. Especially not when hardware on Yaskawa's end is failing and when the techs themselves say it wasn't a great control and the project was terminated after several years. All I know is I have it and it's been nothing but problems since new. I've run Mori's, Mitsubishi's, Haas, Fadals, Mazaks, etc and have never seen a control with this many issues. But we could go back and forth all day, that won't accomplish anything.

As far as my motors and drives, I won't be back at the shop for a few days, but looking back at my emails I know the spindle drive and inverter is CIMR-MR5N20155 & CIMR-M5N20115. Does that help any? I thought CIMR designates the type of servo system but not sure. I would assume paying someone to do a retrofit is costly, but is there someone out there that can write all the parameters and configure the control so that I can install it myself?

[iaknown]

On a side note, did we scare Steve away? lol

[sbalder]

Nope, no one scared me away! I usually check CNCZone when they send me an email and I did not realize there were more posts on this topic. I have no shortage of projects so I would be happy to sell parts off of this control to get you back in business. Someday I will hookup and run one of the Bridgeport Boss 4-equipped machines (with the wire-wrapped circuit boards!) in my shop awaiting retrofit so I can say I actually ran one, but trust me it will be an academic exercise and not for profit. I feel the same way about the PCNC control and would rather see someone get the components back into use on their machine.

So let me give you a few options. First, I would be happy to sell the entire setup, as-is, un-tested, and shipped anywhere in the Continental U.S. for $2000. Second, I would be happy to sell you whatever components you would like off of the control, less the motors, enclosures, screen, and keyboard (so I can use the console on another retrofit) for $850 plus whatever the actual shipping expense would be. Add another $200 if you want the motors. Needless to say before we make a deal I can provide you with any detail pics or model information so you know you are buying the same parts for your machine and that this is not some incompatible model revision!

I've put the pics that I have up on our server. Please contact me at [email protected] if you are interested. Thanks!

Regards,
Steven Balder
SBPRECISION HOME PAGE

http://www.sbprecision.com/images/we...pics/pcnc1.jpg
http://www.sbprecision.com/images/we...pics/pcnc2.jpg
http://www.sbprecision.com/images/we...pics/pcnc3.jpg
http://www.sbprecision.com/images/we...pics/pcnc4.jpg
http://www.sbprecision.com/images/we...pics/pcnc5.jpg
http://www.sbprecision.com/images/we...pics/pcnc6.jpg

[iaknown]

Hmmm, going to need some more info to see if this is the same system, looks close but also different....email sent

[sbalder]

iaknown:
Sent a reply to your email. I will get the pictures and model information to you when I get to the shop this evening. If this turns out to be what you need and we make a deal I can get things shipped out to you quickly. Thank you.

-Steven

[mactec54]

iaknown

What boards are failing in your system, the system that sbalder has is very old, this is the sigma series, I'm not sure what you have, but if your cnc is like a Haas/Fadel size machine, these motors & drives would not be on your machine, the motors are only 450watt & the encoders are 1024 count absolute, they also have brakes on all 3 motors

There are many parts missing from the control cabinet, There may be some control parts that you need in the cabinets, it's hard to tell in the photo's

[gwiz]

I wish you well on your PCNC jouney. Just a few tid bits that don't really matter. When this CNC was designed a PC inagrated CNC was all the rage. Open source they all called it but it was really a lie (as it should be). You really want the manufacture to know how the CNC is going to work and make sure that the Operator can simply crash it by adding a card or a simple software program. I did go to Chicago to the Yaskawa facility to look at thier protype PCNC on a vertical machining center in there plant it was really nice and easy to use and integrate. We all most switched to it for our product line. Glad we didn't now. The story we got from Yaskawa at the time when they quick selling them was they had some agreement with Siemans that force them to quit development of the PCNC in the US and Yaskawa got something from them for Japan?

I still have the project managers card from Yaskawa.

[iaknown]

Well, I am back with an update. First off, I wanted to thank Steven for his help, he is great to deal with. I bought the system from him and am back up and running (yay). I swapped the Yaskawa boards out of the PC (not seen in the above pics, actually inside the console), and everything booted up ok, but I had alarms that made no sense. I FINALLY figured out I had to reflash the ladder sequence from my old board, which stumped me for a while but now I am good to go. I don't really know too much about the servo system. I didn't buy it for that so I will probably just end up trying to sell it and hopefully recoupe some money. But at least I now have a spare PC, touchscreen, pendant, etc and if I get the bad board repaired, that too. Pretty bad when you need to have a lineup of spare parts, but oh well, it sure doesn't hurt and the machine is up and running now.

[sbalder]

It is wonderful to hear that you are back up and running! I have sold some really old Fanuc control parts to companies that specialize in GE Fanuc service. It is just a shame that this control only "sort of" made it to market and does not have the depth of support that Siemens or Fanuc do. I really like Yaskawa servo drives, if they had entered and stayed in the controls game I think they would have been a real force.

Thanks again and good luck with your mill!

-Steven