[CarveOne]

This is going to be a complete rebuild of my first CNC machine, the red oak Solsylva 25x37. Stiffness and extra mass is the goal. Once stripped of useful parts, the red oak frame will be set aside for the time being. It will not be junked.

Some of the mechanical parts like the 5 start lead screws, anti-backlash nuts, bearings, and couplers will be re-used on the new version. The frame will be completely redesigned using 1.5" x 3" steel channel and 1/4" x 4" cold roll steel rails and Ahren's short bearing carriages.

The 5 start lead screws, anti-backlash nuts, and rails were removed from my Work Table CNC machine rebuilds (and upgrades) and will not be additional expense. The eight bearing carriages and the steel channel material were purchased in the past month. Around mid-January I'll order a Gecko G540 to replace the 3 axis Xylotex since the rebuild will use a dual motor X axis. The Xylotex 425 oz-in motors are probably not the best match for the G540 and are likely to be replaced with new motors.

So, over the past week I cut the channel to length (36" and 48") and mitered the ends at 45 degrees. Today I welded them together. That seemed to go well until the argon/co2 gas cylinder started running low on pressure. I barely finished and some of the welds inside the corners look ugly but will hold ok. 4" legs cut from 1.5" x 3" channel will be tacked in place tomorrow. Eventually, there will be leveling feet added to the bottom of the legs.

Tomorrow I'll attach the X axis rails. The three 1/2" holes will have washers and flat head machine screws through them. There will be four additional flat head machine screws installed into counter sunk holes.

As on my big machine, the rails will be vertically oriented and steel gantry supports will tie the upper and lower carriages together and also support the steel channel beam and rail. The beam will sit on top of the upper carriages. I'll build a new steel Z axis similar to the one on the big machine that can use the Hitachi M12VC router.

The first issue I found is that when the carriages are installed on a rail with a piece of channel between the carriages as shown in the three photos the bolt heads slightly rub against the channel. This can be used to help center the rail on the channel. The bolt heads need to be trimmed on the lathe by about 0.050" for adequate clearance after the rails are bolted to the channels. It will not affect using a wrench on the bolt heads. I'll just remove the "crown" a little.

I haven't decided on a paint yet. It will be either the textured silver, or a camo paint job.

CarveOne

[DIYaholic]

CarveOne,

I am so looking forward to following along with your trials and tribulations of your rebuild. I am sure we will all be entertained and educated during the rebuild process. However for us neophytes, :withstupi could you tell us why you chose channel over square tube steel.
Good luck with the rebuild & thanks, in advance, for this sure to be riveting thread.

Randy

[CarveOne]

CarveOne,

I am so looking forward to following along with your trials and tribulations of your rebuild. I am sure we will all be entertained and educated during the rebuild process. However for us neophytes, :withstupi could you tell us why you chose channel over square tube steel.
Good luck with the rebuild & thanks, in advance, for this sure to be riveting thread.

Randy

Mostly because the local Fastenal store keeps them in stock and they don't keep the 1.5" x 3" box tubes in stock. They will order them for me if I ask, and the 6' channels cost less. That size box tube in 0.180 wall also has a fairly large radius on the edges with less of a flat surface for the rail to fit against. I used it on the big machine's final gantry beam with no problems though. I used a 5" wide rail with it, so there was no issue with the carriage bolts rubbing the tube as this one does.

The channel certainly is not as resistant to twist as the box tube would be. The short lengths involved should be ok. The work table top it will sit on should prevent that from being an issue. The welded channel frame feels rock solid when lifting it by one corner. Once the spoil board is screwed to the underside of the frame with a few cross stiffeners it will become less of a flexing issue.

Builders with no welding capability can assemble the frame by bolting it together with four pieces of right angle steel inside the corners.


CarveOne

[Khalid]

OMG..Another adventure...Will closely follow YOU my friend..
How straight are the channels..also if you are going to weld the frame, did you get any war-page?

[CarveOne]

OMG..Another adventure...Will closely follow YOU my friend..
How straight are the channels..also if you are going to weld the frame, did you get any war-page?

Hi Khalid,

The channel is as straight as my ability to measure it with the straightest 48" aluminum rule I have. I will expect to install some thin shims between the X axis rails and the channel where it is necessary. I was able to weld it with no serious misalignment. I use clamps and check the alignment, then make short welds that do not heat the metal excessively. Heat control is the key to making assemblies that do not warp. If the joint is not aligned well enough, I cut it free and weld it again.

This is what we call "old school" construction. Aluminum extrusions are the current popular method of construction, but I prefer steel for a number of reasons other than the lower cost.

CarveOne

[The J]

My question is, why? You have a beautiful machine already, unless I'm missing something and your old gantry had a taller clearance than your lustful table (pictured above)...nom nom nom.

[CarveOne]

My question is, why? You have a beautiful machine already, unless I'm missing something and your old gantry had a taller clearance than your lustful table (pictured above)...nom nom nom.

The 12' machine was designed to reach into a 6" thick block of mold material by 5" deep. This new small frame machine will handle 3" materials. This smaller machine should have better accuracy and less chatter tendencies than the big machine. #1 reason is that I just like to build things and just can't resist the need to make my first machine even better than it was.

As "retro" as it may end up looking when compared to the 8020 builds, it should be a nice R/C foamy and guitar body making machine to use while the 10' commercial signs are being cut on the big machine for hours on end.

CarveOne

[Khalid]

i think he want to cut non-ferrous metals with it...

[archer3d]

Lookin good carveone, as for color I put my vote in for camo :cheers:

archer3d

[CarveOne]

Lookin good carveone, as for color I put my vote in for camo :cheers:

archer3d

Mossy Oak, Realtree, desert camo or digital camo?

If I paint it with textured silver it will look like an all-aluminum build.

CarveOne

[88rob88]

ok, c1, i am page 40 of ur other build and will follow this one as well, and how do i bookmark it or tag it or somehow get to it without searching.....the more I read the more I don't know ;-)

[CarveOne]

ok, c1, i am page 40 of ur other build and will follow this one as well, and how do i bookmark it or tag it or somehow get to it without searching.....the more I read the more I don't know ;-)

At the top of the message list is a "Search This Thread" option. If you want to find the Allegro LSA posts type that in the box and it will find all posts in this thread with that search term in it. There won't be many on this subject since it is off topic.

At the top of each page is a "Search" option that will let you search the whole site on "CarveOne" if you want to find all of my different threads. I have three CNC machine build threads and a face sander build thread.

You can just bookmark a particular message page you're looking at in your browser to come back to that page sometime in the future.

CarveOne

[CarveOne]

i think he want to cut non-ferrous metals with it...

Yes, definitely. Especially aluminum plate and bar stock, and also engraved brass sheet if it has enough accuracy.

I want a lower gantry this time.

CarveOne

[revwarguy]

Just wanted to say good luck on this rebuild. As someone who followed your original oak Solsylva, this will be very interesting.

Since the old one was 24x37, how you going to use the old screws for a 36x48? Gonna stay with the belt for the dual X axis screws?

Anyway, bon voyage!

[CarveOne]

Just wanted to say good luck on this rebuild. As someone who followed your original oak Solsylva, this will be very interesting.

Since the old one was 24x37, how you going to use the old screws for a 36x48? Gonna stay with the belt for the dual X axis screws?

Anyway, bon voyage!

36" x 48" is the outside dimensions of the channel frame. The Solsylva red oak frame measures 35" x 48" outside dimension. The difference in the way the rails and carriages are laid out versus the original EMT tubing and bearings should work out to roughly the same 25" x 37" cutting area except that I cut the 5 start screws about an inch longer than they needed to be back when I swapped out the original 1 start ACME screws. I may or may not gain an inch of Y axis travel depending on how the mechanics work out. If the screws come up a little short I have some left over shaft adapters I made for the original lead screw version of the work table machine I can use to make the lead screws fit. I'm pretty sure that they will be not be needed. The steel bearing plates that are on the Solsylva now may work out ok. If not, I'll make new 3/8" aluminum bar stock bearing plates to support the lead screws.

I'm not sure yet what the front to back distance of the Z assembly will be, but I am guessing that there won't be much change in X axis travel.

The Solsylva 25 x 37 has dual X axis screws driven from one motor using a single belt. The new version will have a motor driving each lead screw directly and synchronized in Mach3.

CarveOne

[revwarguy]

Sounds very nice. I must say your welding and grinding of those box corners looks really good.

I have had some issues with my Solsylva, mostly getting the x screws aligned properly at first, but I can't say I ever had trouble with the x belt. You using two steppers to get more power, or did you have trouble with the belt itself on the oak version?

Once I had a touch probe routine I downloaded for Mach go south and the probe kept going past the surface of the (aluminum) material. I was standing right there with my hand over the estop, but even before I could hit it, it really built up some force. Ruined the bit. What gave, though, was the Z belt - it snapped and went flying. Always since kind of thought that the belts were a type of safety valve. Even though I have spares for all three belts, that's the only one I've had to replace. I fixed the touch probe routine and its been ok since, but I still have my hand right over the estop any time I click the zero-Z button.

In your drawing, do the screws go through the gantry sides?

PS - You looked into Gerry Grzadzinski's (Ger21) new 2010 Mach3 screen set? Give your new table a new screen look as well!

[Hyrum R]

Man, that looks nice! Now you make me want to start building a miniature CNC. Argghh, must....resist.....temptation....

[CarveOne]

Man, that looks nice! Now you make me want to start building a miniature CNC. Argghh, must....resist.....temptation....

Thanks,

I'll try to keep this one as simple to make as I can, but there will be some machining involved. Bearing mounts and a few parts of the Z axis mostly. The bolt heads could have been shortened on a disk sander instead of the lathe. The frame didn't really need welded joints. It may even be possible to use the bearing blocks and NEMA23 plates from Ahren's site if no lathe and mill is available. As I add my version of the parts to the drawing I'll try to also show an alternative method of doing the same thing without machining. Ahren has dimensioned drawings for these parts on his web site, so I may just try to design the machine with those parts in mind. Once I have the basic frame and rails assembled, It will become easier for me to figure out how to do this.

CarveOne

[CarveOne]

There was a very productive afternoon in the shop today. I tack welded the 1/4" filler plates to the bottom of the legs and drilled a 5/16" hole in the center for an adjustable foot of some kind. Probably homemade.

Then I marked locations on the frame 1" inward from the outer frame surface of the long sides. The legs were clamped in place and welded. Fortunately, this is the last of the welding that's needed and the MIG gas held up long enough to finish the job.

The photos show how I assembled four carriages to one rail and used them to keep the rail square with the frame and the clamps keep the rail from shifting while I used a 1/2" transfer to mark the center of the big holes in the rail. I found that I could use 3/8" x 1" button head socket screws and the head doesn't stick up enough to interfere with a lead screw that will be in line with the screws. Lock washers and nuts are inside the steel channel. I drilled 3/8" holes through the steel channel in the center of the 1/2" holes in the rail. There is room for adjustment of the rail since the button heads don't fill up the pocket that was milled around the 1/2" holes in the rails. Additional 1/4-20 button head socket screws 3/4" from the center line of the rail will be installed later. They will be offset because these screws will not have milled recesses for the screw heads and they won't interfere with the anti-backlash nut.

Checking the corner to corner "X" with fishing line shows that the lines touch in the center, which means that as it is sitting now the rails are square with each other. Perfectly acceptable situation to me.

I placed a 6' piece of channel on top of the carriages and made two "L" brackets from 1/4" thick x 1-1/2" steel angle to use as a connector plate for each end of the gantry beam. I'm not sure that they will be needed but they will be readily available.

The next thing that is to be made are the two 5/8" x 6" x 9" cold roll steel plates that tie the carriages together and extend upward for mounting the gantry beam and rail. I won't cut the beam and rail to length until the support plates are bolted in place and I can measure the exact distance between the two plates. I also will have the lead screws installed before cutting just in case there needs to be more room for the anti-backlash nut.

CarveOne

[automationsteed]

Looks good Carveone, I will also be going all steel for frames. I am an old school welder and have my own gas drive setup. I used to do pressure welding up to 7500psi so I think I can put this together square, an old millwright told me.. "put a tack here and one opposite, work your way around with tacks to keep things square". It has worked for me so far.

I will also be using cncrouter parts for the x and y axis bearing slides, I like how they work.

Just as you are doing, I want to be able to do aluminum and alloys when I have to for panel work :cheers: I build electrical and hydraulic/pneumatic panels for a day job so I want a rigid setup to do this. Keep up the good work, I will be following your progress.

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