[metalman7290]

I have a Comet Mill with a Fanuc 10M system. I have an intermitent problem with the software key "Settings". ( second Key from the left). Sometimes I can use it and other times I can not get it to change. When it does not work the input keys X, 2 and P do not function on the input pad. It's driving me crazy as sometimes it will work and others not. Any Ideas or suggestions would keep me out of the insane asylem!

I have another problem that cropped up today. When I turn the spindle on, after it starts I get two alarms: SV000 X Thermogenerator Disconnect
SV013 X improper V_ready off.

When this happens, I can here a relay shut down and the TGLS LED lights up on the Driver PCB. If I push the cancel button on the input panel the alarm goes out for a few seconds then I here the relay operate and the alarm comes back on.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

[gbowne1]

Which CRT/MDI unit do you have?

It should be a A02B-0072-Cxxx number.

Greg

[metalman7290]

Thank you so much for your interest Greg.

The only numbers I could readily see are: A61L-0001-0086 on the CRT itself and A86L-0001-0111 on the keypad. I have attached a photo of the control unit.

I went out this morning. Turned the machine on and the key was operable. I was able to program a simple program and run it, but I heard a slight click in the power cabinet and the key quit working again! I might add that I am able to jog all the axis and start the spindle motor when this happens. Somehow there is something turning off that is causing this keyboad and software key problem. I am convinced it's not in the keys. Or am I wrong?

This is really driving me crazy!!

Note that the pictures show the screen with the software key working.

Thanks again Greg

[gbowne1]

You should look for a yellow sticker like the one I attached here, that says FANUC LTD. sometimes it's a metal plate made to look like the yellow and white sticke, but most usually it's a yellow & white sticker. The numbers you mentioned. On this label it usually has

Tell us more about your 10M system. There are several versions. The most important descriptions are of your boards and cards and which masterboard you have, all by the numbers. There are at least 15 different versions of the three Series 10, 11 and 12 systems divided mostly by the M and T versions.

I have taken more of a recent interest in the 10M/10T systems as well as the 11M and 11T systems which are all quite common to each other.

I have not seen your SV000 alarm.. but I have seen the SV013. I will have to look through my notes to see how I took care of that.

Maybe someone else can help you with the SV000 alarms.

I would suggest some careful cleaning of the keys and contacts with some CRC Industrial Contact cleaner.. or if you can't find one.. "GUNK" makes a good one too. Look for CRC 03070, 16oz aerosol. Amazon.com sells it.

CRC Industries Product Detail

CRC's contact cleaner is my favorite one. But.. also CAIG's Deoxit is ok too. caig.com - Home of DeoxIT® - CAIG Laboratories, Inc.

Following that, give it some good cleaning and degreasing. After some years of use, they get gummed up by oils, dirt, oily fingerprints, coolant, etc. and I also like Zep products if I can get them and they have several degreasers too.

Zep Professional | Products -Industrial Degreasers

Let me know how your cleaning goes on. I had to take my whole CRT/MDI unit appart and clean and degrease every inch of it. Worth every minute I spent on it. I have a rule in my shop now for careful handling of the keys on the MDI. I also have a "clean hands" rule too. The "old style" calculator type keys on these can be hard to clean. I also now keep antibacterial handiwipes in my CNC areas so people can clean their hands before they go to the CRT/MDI.

I had a number of inoperative, sticky, or intermittant key problems before I started to give it a really good thorough deep clean.

I also noticed you have a few keys with which the membrane over the key swich has been broken. You can buy new replacements from eBay or I think you can also still buy some from FANUC.

This part number from FANUC may be any version of a number that starts with "A98L-0001" so look for your keysheet number and are usually $30-$100. I believe you will need the A98L-0001-0482#M,but check and see if it matches yours. eBay seller "topspincnc" sells some good keysheet membranes.

fanuc keysheet items - Get great deals on Manufacturing Metalworking, Electrical Test Equipment items on eBay.com!

Greg

[metalman7290]

Thanks for your reply and suggestions Greg,

My Mill and Keys were O.K. for about an hour this morning, then same problem. I slipped out and picked up a can of good contact cleaner and cleaned all the connectors between the CRT and the main PCB. Voila, I'm in business. The keys worked for the rest of the day! If I can get a week out of it I'll declare victory. The connector problem would explain why four keys at once wouldn't work. I spent the rest of the day cleaning.

As soon as I know I can depend on it I'll buy a new membrain. I've been eyeing them up on Ebay.

Just for the record, here are the numbers I found.

Fanuc System 10: A02B-0072-B501
Main PCB: A16B-1010-0040/090
D1/D0: 2 A16B-1210-0321-A
Power Unit: A16B-1210-0510 01

Greg, Thanks again. I sure appreciate it.

Dan

[gbowne1]

Dan,

I'm glad my advice helped you as it has helped me. The CRT/MDI unit gets handled a lot, so make sure it's kept clean. A good thorough cleaning of the entire system unit can also benefit operation. You have a pendant unit, and it looks like with the standard A02B-0072-B501 system unit.

New membranes really enhance the look of the CRT/MDI. They are not hard to install or remove. I've done a few. The old ones get yellowed from use. I really like the colored ones that this seller offers. I think you will benefit from a new one. Let me know how that turns out.

The only other thing I can tell you is that you might also replace the key cap on the Cycle Start switch.

If you have this type CRT/MDI:



You can still benefit from a good key & key switch cleaning.

I do not remember exactly how the key caps under the membrane come off, so maybe someone could let us know how that is done.

Good news though, The A61L-0001-0086 is a fairly common 9" CRT.

I'm gonna be trying my best to support the Series 10/11/12 systems. While I'm no expert on at least the 10's and 11's, I have used the 11M system and am going to build my 10T as I've described in my build thread.

In my own endeavor, I went so far as to clean the master board, all of the attached boards, drives, connectors and the CRT/MDI in its entirety.

Greg

[metalman7290]

Thanks Greg,

I totally agree on the cleaning. I'm a clean freek myself and this unit is now out of the scrap yard and in my garage. (Picture attached.) You wouldn't believe how this machine looked when I bought it. My wife and I worked for hours cleaning old scum off of it with green Zep. It's only her insistance and my persistance that's kept this machine from going back were it came from! It's still working today, so if it works all week, I'm on a mission to tool this thing up (NMTB 30).

I've had the keys apart. They are the little square type and if your real careful you can pop the tops off of them. It's imperative that you work in a clean area with a clean cloth on a table so you don't lose any parts. Under the caps is a rubber disk and gold plated disk that pops down to make the contacts. If you ever lost one of those, I don't know were you could get a replacement.

I am definitely replacing the membrane and I hope to eventually give the machine a new paint job.

I think it's fantastic that you are supporting this machine, as there are a lot of these coming on the market for reasonable prices. Makes it affordable for us garage machinists.

Thanks for your help Greg,

Dan

[gbowne1]

Well, you don't need to work on it like you're in a clean room environment, but it's meant to be used.

Glad you were able to save the machine from the scrap heap.

I'm always glad to help someone. Even today I'm still learning.

As far as your tooling, look for Kennametal Erickson tooling. They are the type of tooling that defined the NMTB standard, but Weldon is a good brand too. I used to have a couple milling machines with this type tooling and it is a good choice.

Let me know if you need more help with your 10M.

Greg

[metalman7290]

Hi Group, Greg hope your checking these posts. I now have my machine working and I tried to program a simple program. Everything works, but now I find that the Y axis is actually doubling my input numbers. i.e. if I ask it to move 1" it moves 2 inches sometimes 4! Now what the heck is going on. Do you think my parameters are srewed up? Do you happen to know the parameters for this machine? I'd like to check mine to see if ther right. Any Ideas? Wow this is frustrating.

Thanks for your help.

Dan B

[gbowne1]

No, I wish I had good parameters for you, but I don't.

Glad to hear the machine is working, and actually responding to input.

Make sure that your ballscrew(s) is/are clean also make sure that the wipers are clean too. Make sure that the fluids are all full and are all good clean fluids.

If your machine has coolant sump, you might give it a good clean too..I use the one from Master Chemical.

Did you get a keysheet / membrane? I always felt that this also protects the keys behind the membrane from further damage.

They very well could be screwed up. Most of the parameters in the machines that I own were done by hand. Most people would tell you to go the machine tool builder for the parameters and I'm not really a parameter expert (yet, anyhow!). A lot of the machine builders put copies of the parameter list in the cabinet and/or also in the somewhere along with the manuals. Another idea is to contact someone with the same machine as yours.. hoping that they would share their parameters with you. I don't know if Comet still exists, but maybe there is someone around with your machine.

Did you get tooling? NMTB 30 is a pretty good tooling standard. Like I said in the last post, Kennametal/Erickson is probably the best one.. but Weldon (an endmill manufacturer) also makes a good NMTB holder. ETM made by Iscar is ok too, but a relatively cheap brand. You can get lots of these on eBay, but.. I prefer going to my local industrial supplier and buying new ones.

Review this PDF..
http://www.kennametal.com/images/pdf...ricksonSys.pdf

As you can see you have quite a few options there.

Greg

[metalman7290]

Thanks Glen. I'm going to check further on the Parameters. This problem seems to have just cropped up. I think there is a sheet with ladder diagrams, but I haven't seen any parameter sheets. There is an office for Comet in California and they have talked to me before so I'll try them as well. They were able to dig out an operators manual from the archives so they may have the parameters.

I haven't purchased any tooling or the membrain yet as I want the machine running before I spend any more $$$ on it.

Hopefully soon.

Thanks again for helping me out. I'll keep you posted.

Dan.

[gbowne1]

From your great pictures, I see that you have FANUC yellow cap DC motors. They're great. Several machines of mine had them. Let me know the data on the data plates of your servo motors. I can help you a little bit with the tuning if I knew the numbers and data.. each one is a little different than the next.

If your adept enough, theres some basic servo tuning you can do. I know most of the servo shops in the western half of the US, if you aren't.

I think I've found some switches that would replace your cycle start switch.. which appears to be missing its cap and lamp/bulb, If you want one, although I have the bulbs and the red and green caps too. It would just help clean up the appearance and function of your pendant.

Your Y axis problem sounds pretty basic to me. I'm plenty sure that it's probably a parameter.

You probably have metric ballscrews, though. A lot of Machine Tool Builders used metric ballscrews and just adjusted the parameters so that it would read in inch on your displays.

Your first task is to get a copy of the parameters and enter them which really isn't very hard. Just do one by one very carefully.

Other things you can do is inspect all the cabling and wiring, relays and fuses and make sure that they are all good and are not shorted or broken. This should be done fairly regularly as regular maintenance. If you need new cables I know where you can get some.

If I knew the type of spindle and/or servo drives I could help you too. You probably have an axes board with the number A16B-1210-00xx, where each x is a number 0 through 9. There are 7 different boards. although you might also have a board with A16B-1210-0430, -0440 or -450 which are Add Axes boards that are attached to the connectors on your masterboard.

Somewhere I have in my notes some basic instructions on how to add a 4th axes to the 10/11/12 system so that you could use a servo driven rotary table, let me know..

You probably have a pair of A06B-6041, -6044, -6045 or 4047.. each one identified differently by the -Hxxx part number. Although, I've seen some with the Yaskawa drives and some other drive types. There are some adjustments you can do if you are careful.

Greg

[metalman7290]

Thanks a lot for your reply and suggestions Glen. I did remove the resolver cover and cleaned it up with my contact cleaner. It did not resolve the problem. It sure would be nice to have a set of parameters for the machine. I think I'll try to call Comet to see if they can help me. I'll take you up on your offer for the new cover and bulb. I am planning to spruce up the panel as soon as I get these bugs sorted out.

Please contact me directly and we can sort out the details for the parts. I'm busy trying to complete a project I took on and working full time as well, so I'm a little pressed for time to work on the machine at the moment. In the mean time I'll try to find the parameters. You don't know of a post on this site were someone has offered some advice on same do you?

Again, I really appreciate your advice.

Thanks,

Dan B

[gbowne1]

Hi Dan!

First of all, although it's not a big deal, my name is Greg. :banana: :wee:

Whenever you are ready for the parts I can get them to you anytime.

The only other Comet mill I had seen had a different control, a Centurion IV.

Just like this one:

COMET CENTURION IV 1632 CNC MILL MILLING MACHINE - eBay (item 250758531925 end time Feb-15-11 04:40:45 PST)

Greg

[metalman7290]

I'm so sorry Greg. There's no excuse for my slip up. As always, I appreciate your help and will be in touch for those parts as soon as I get some time and answers to the Y axis issues.

Dan

[gbowne1]

No worries Dan, it's ok.

Take your time. I always have a few spares around of these items so if you need to wait, that's ok with me. The bulb itself is actually fairly common and is the same one in the larger version of the same switch that you have.

After some time, a number of the bulbs do die out so it's handy to have set around. In 14 years I have had about a dozen go out on me. Your cycle start button will and should light up and or flash during certain cycles, depending on how it is set up from I/O.

I think I know what your Y axis problem is now, but I need to know that your parameters are correct for me to do any verification.

It's nice to know that I can tell you that you have the most common FANUC 10 System, the A02B-0072-B501, which is the 'installation' or 'configuration' part number.

DI/DO is a input & output unit.

You will find that having a fully working panel helps!

Look inside where your control resides and tell me if you see any regular LED's and a seven segment LED display. Let me know what it says.

Also if you could, tell me the software version which should appear during startup of the machine. It should say something like FS10 SYS then the software number.. and maybe a few other things.

I still would like to know about your servos and the other boards in your control.

Greg

[metalman7290]

Here are the build details on my Comet Milling machine indicating the board numbers etc. I found this very faded sheet in the machine cabinet and was able to read most of it with a magnifying glass. I also found about 20 sheets of what looks like a ladder diagram. Would either of these be helpful in determining why my "y" axis is moving 2 to 4 times further than I program in. i.e. if I ask it to move 1" it moves 2" or 4". the other axis are O.K.

See attached files. Greg, please let me know if this helps. I couldn't find any other parameter info in the paper work I have with the machine, but I did find a note that indicated this problem had been occuring before the machine was retired. This kind of tells me this is not a parameter issue. Any Ideas?

Thanks a bunch for your help.

Dan

[gbowne1]

I see that you have the fairly common 10M parts. I haven't had much a chance to look at it all yet, but I think we'll be able to solve this problem.
From what I see so far this is information we will need to fix it.

Give me some chance to review all of this and I will get back to you.

It's about 50/50 that it's a parameter problem.

Ladder sheets are very helpful for lots of things.

Special parameters are your "options".

The good thing is that you definitely have some good FANUC DC servos, the 0M and 5M and the matching A06B-6047 velocity control (essentially a servo drive and amplifier) but except it has discharge unit and transformer.

Your axis might actually be slipping along the ballscrew. I can't remember if there is a parameter that doubles the program increment length.

Greg

[Swemill]

The good thing is that you definitely have some good FANUC DC servos,

Greg: I once again see that you are mention that the DC servos are "great", and must take the opportunity to ask you about this!
I have two mills with these "yellow top" - DC servos (3M -83, 10M -85) and they both work great, but i always thought that these old servos was much worse than the newer "red top" AC/DC servos...
Isn't there big difference between these? Is the yellow tops equal in strenth and power consuming, or is there maybe even some benefit with the old one's?

Thanks for some info for a novice on this!

[gbowne1]

Well, yes, they are pretty good. I have had several machines with old FANUC controls and DC servos. I have not had any trouble with any of them. Although, I removed mine and fitted much better AC servos that were better suited to my application after much discussion with several people.

Properly set up, well maintained and properly tuned FANUC DC "Yellow cap" servos work very nice though. I personally would not discourage anyone from using them.

The red cap AC servos are more modern and are easier to set up. Now, the DC servos don't deliver quite the punch that the AC do, but I think they are about equal, just depends on which ones you are comparing them to.. But there is not the variety of them like there are the AC's. And there are both the analog and digital variety.

I'm still kind of a novice at this too, but I've had lots of conversations about this very thing.

The yellow cap DC motors are pretty complex.