[Cartel, LLC]

so, ive been thinking about adding an sl-10 to my shop and ive found a couple of really good deals on 2 different machines (used) but then i saw that donkey hotey said in another thread to get an sl-20 instead of a 10??? now, im worried. should i listen to that advice and do a 20 or continue on with the 10???

[Geof]

What is the diameter of the largest bar you have to put through the spindle?

What is the (swing) diameter of the largest casting you have to machine, similarly what is the largest diameter of flange or chunk of round bar you have to machine?

What is the maximum length you have to machine between centers?

How much money do you have?

You should be able to make a decision based on the answers to these questions.

I have two SL10s, two HL1s which are similar to the SL20 and two GT20s, they each deal with different sized jobs. Working within their capacities they are all equivalent in terms of initial cost versus productivity.

[Donkey Hotey]

should i listen to that advice and do a 20 or continue on with the 10???

You should trust the force and always take advice from a stuffed donkey on the internet.


Seriously, the reason I like the SL-20 so much more than the SL-10 is the envelope for tools. If you do a lot of inside operations, you have to be careful that the tools will clear. Remember that everything is installed on the turret and whirling around in there when you do a tool change. A drill bit sticking out the side of the turret doesn't just go away when you change to the turning tool and you have to get in an hug the chuck to the last possible point.

I like the envelope of the SL-20 because of the flexibility. The SL-10 can certainly get the job done but, it's more limiting to what will fit or how you can set it up. As Geof already posted, you should be able to make the decision based on the parts you need to make. I can easily envsion all kinds of parts that would fit the SL-10 just fine.

[gonc]

I was in the same boat. Didn't know if I wanted the SL-10 or SL-20. Went with the SL-20 and I'm glad I did. Lots of room in there compared to the 10. I suggest the SL-20.

[Cartel, LLC]

Well, as of right now I'm only looking at putting 1-1/2" bar 4130 through there and maybe par lengths are going to be maybe 3" max. As of now. Now, there's obviously the possibility of doing larger longer parts but in the near future all of the parts I'm wanting to make would fit in that envelope I described.

My budget is $25-30k. Now, I'm looking at a reallynce clean 2005 sl-10 for $27k or there's a not as clean 2004 sl-20 for $28k. I personally think the cleaner a machine is tells you how well someone took care of it etc...

[Geof]

Personally I don't attach too much improtance to 'clean'. Look for dings on the toolholders that might have been made by jaws, and vice versa. Also look for gouges in the sheet metal up behing the turret indicating someone has had a parting tool or something sticking out too far. Check the hours and check the number of toolchanges on the Diagnostics page (cursor down twice I think)

Given the similarity in price I would be inclined to go for the SL20 machine if it did not have any indications of being abused and the run time and toolchanges were moderate. In the case of toolchanges I would consider fewer than a 3/4 million moderate on a 5 years old machine.

[gizmo_454]

Definitely consider the future. The SL-20 does have more room and potential for larger parts and tools. But like mentioned above, there are a good number of parts that will fit in the SL-10. I know. We have one. If I leave out the bar feeder issues, it has been a good machine.

By the way Geof, there must be something wrong with what we are doing with our machine. You said that a moderate number of tool changes would be about 750,000 for a 5 year old machine. We have just over 13,000 hours and 1,649,000 plus tool changes on our almost 4 year old SL-10. It is well used, but certainly not abused. It even gets waxed once every couple of weeks. Its M30 count is over 195,000! And I know it has been reset at least once.

Anyway, IMHO, the physical appearance, in addition to the crashes mentioned above are BOTH good indicators as to the use or abuse of the machine. I mean really, who would buy a Lincoln Navigator only to take it out mudding! Yeah right! Don't scratch the paint on my $80K machine or you might find a scratch on your $80K car! LOL Again, in MY opinion, should look the part. But Geof is right, the paint shouldn't be THE deciding factor. If you don't go look at it yourself, I would recommend having a third party check it out to get an impartial perspective.

Good luck in your choice!

Mike

[Geof]

.....By the way Geof, there must be something wrong with what we are doing with our machine. You said that a moderate number of tool changes would be about 750,000 for a 5 year old machine. We have just over 13,000 hours and 1,649,000 plus tool changes on our almost 4 year old SL-10......Mike

I stick by my phrasing, 750,000 is moderate for five years, 1.65 million is well used. No you are not doing anything wrong but you must run two shifts.

I have a couple of SL10s that are up near the 2 million mark. I haven't checked the HL1s but they will be somewhere up there and they are still going strong.

They have had some repairs but nothing that I consider extreme, One HL1 needed the Z servo replaced eight years after I bought it and the oldest SL10 needed the X axis ball screw replaced at about the same age. And that is about it.

[garylb]

i have an SL10 and the only thing i dont like about it is the fact that the coolant tank doesnt come out so its quite hard to clean properly. Apparently the bigger models have removable tanks. Is this right?

[garylb]

We have one. If I leave out the bar feeder issues, it has been a good machine.

ByMike

What issues do you have with the bar feeder? i also have one on my SL10

[gizmo_454]

What issues do you have with the bar feeder? i also have one on my SL10

The issue really doesn't appear to be with the bar feeder. For some reason, there is some circuit on the I/O board that controls the bar feeder that goes out. When it does, the bar feeder crashes when loading a new bar. We went through 4 boards last year alone.

From what I am being told, which is not much, there are only 2 machines in the country with the exact problem we have. The last board they sent had some components that were extremely larger or beefier looking than all of the previous boards. Hopefully it is the fix, finally. It has been 4 years we have been dealing with it now. Now if only I can convince them to fix my dim LCD screen for all the down time with all the I/O board issues!

As mentioned before, if it were not for that issue, the machine has been great.

Mike

[shawncnelson]

I've got two SL-10 one big bore, one standard. The thing I like about the 10 over the 20 is that with the 10 I get 12 tool positions. With the 20 you only get 8.