[indian mark]

I own 2 Haas Mini Mills and recently had an issue with one of them. Called out the local Haas folks. I wasn't happy to say the least. So, I'm wondering if there is a qualified Haas service contractor in Michigan. I don't have any issues at the moment, but would like to know for future reference.

Thanks,
Mark

[ckirchen]

If you're having troubles with the local HFO, give Haas a call directly. The number is on the front of all of my machines: 1-888-817-4227.

[indian mark]

Thanks, Do they have "Authorized" Haas service people to recommend. I don't want to call just to complain. I want someone else.

[KenFoulks]

Please take a moment to speak to the Haas Customer Advocate @ 805-988-6980.

There are three HFOs near you:

Haas Factory Outlet
A Division of Gerotech Inc.
2900 Featherstone Road
Auburn Hills, MI 48326
Phone: (248) 476-8787
Fax: (248) 476-5960
[email protected]



Haas Factory Outlet
A Division of Gerotech Inc.
29220 Commerce Drive
Flat Rock, MI 48134
Phone: (734) 379-7788
Fax: (734) 379-2244
[email protected]



Haas Factory Outlet-Grand Rapids
A Division of Gerotech Inc.
2716 Courier Court N.W.
Grand Rapids, MI 49544
Phone: (616) 453-4050
Fax: (616) 735-0776
[email protected]

[indian mark]

Please take a moment to speak to the Haas Customer Advocate @ 805-988-6980.

There are three HFOs near you:

Haas Factory Outlet
A Division of Gerotech Inc.
2900 Featherstone Road
Auburn Hills, MI 48326
Phone: (248) 476-8787
Fax: (248) 476-5960
[email protected]




Haas Factory Outlet
A Division of Gerotech Inc.
29220 Commerce Drive
Flat Rock, MI 48134
Phone: (734) 379-7788
Fax: (734) 379-2244
[email protected]



Haas Factory Outlet-Grand Rapids
A Division of Gerotech Inc.
2716 Courier Court N.W.
Grand Rapids, MI 49544
Phone: (616) 453-4050
Fax: (616) 735-0776
[email protected]

No thanks. Not in the mood for a ***** session. What else ya got?

[Ydna]

I can't speak for anyone else but I've had pretty good experiences with Gerotech out of Flat Rock. FWIW

[Matt@RFR]

No thanks. Not in the mood for a ***** session. What else ya got?

If you don't speak to Haas directly and let them know there's a problem, how do you expect them to fix it?

For what it's worth (not a lot based on your attitude), I'm thrilled with the service I get from my HFO. (NorCal Selway)

[indian mark]

Thanks for the input guys. I really didn't want to complain about Gerotech. I was figuring there was a reputable service guy around that was qualified to fix Haas machines.
I'm thrilled with my Gerotech sales rep, Pat Lynch. If he stops by, I'd be glad to buy him lunch. Great guy! Even the service guy that came out was really nice. I'm a huge fan of the machines and really wouldn't want anything else in my shop. I'm even a fan of Tony Stewart and would hop in my truck today and drive to Charlotte NC. if they'd show me around the Stewart-Haas racing shop.
My issue is with the billing dept. I paid for a service tech to pull a motor out, put a new one in (after waiting a week for it to get here), then pull the new motor out and put the old one back in because that wasn't the problem. I wasn't charged for the motor, just the labor for all that (1 1/2 hours at $125/hr.) Once the problem was correctly diagnosed, It was corrected in about 15 minutes with a part on the truck. I did call Gerotech about my issue and they removed the travel time charge for the second trip out ($90/hr). I was OK with that and paid the $1000 service bill.
If this was a mechanic's garage that charged me to remove a part from my car and replace it with a new part, then remove the new part and replace it with my old part and not charge me for the new part, just the labor to replace it twice, I'd go someplace else.

That's all I want to do.
(sorry about the rant, My intention wasn't to bash Gerotech. I just think there's a reputable option here)

[Matt@RFR]

Sounds like good service to me. I highly doubt you're going to find a tech, HFO or independent, that would let the labor charge go just because that didn't fix the problem.

These are not cars. These are complex machines, some worth more than my house. I understand and agree that it would be nice to only have paid for that 15 minutes, but since Haas doesn't let the HFO's repair boards at the component level, the service techs don't have the tools to diagnose boards at that level. So really, in my opinion, if it's not an obvious fix, they just have to try things until they find the problem.

My HFO will even have me run some tests on my own, after telling me how to do them, to try and diagnose the problem, or atleast narrow it down, so they can make sure to have parts in the van that will fix whatever they think it is. Plus, when the tech shows up, he's already armed with what I've found out on my own.

Obviously it's up to you though. I have no experience with independent techs, so I'm no help there.

[indian mark]

Thanks Matt, I appreciate what you're saying, but if I was going to use ole "throw parts at it until it's fixed" method, I wish they'd started with the easy ones that are on the truck. Because that's what it was.
I also realize that many guys will disagree with my view on this. I'm really just looking for options for the future. Haas machines are very popular and it would seem that there would be a market for an independent contractor in Michigan.

[gizmo_454]

Unfortunately, I had the same problem at one time with our SL-10 and Gerotech. They mis-diagnosed the spindle motor being bad with a bad encoder. We, however, decided to pull the motor ourselves and have it rebuilt by a local electric motor place instead of paying their huge parts/labor cost.

The motor guy told me there was nothing wrong with it. After putting it back in the machine, we called them back out, less the travel time, and they fixed it. Again, like you, they had the encoder on the truck. Oops. We lost a week to that ourselves.

As I understand it, most of these machinery dealers tend to use the "throw parts at it until it's fixed" method. In some cases that works better, in others, it doesn't. Oh well. Such is life!

Good luck.

Mike

[Ydna]

One of my friends works at a machine shop near here running three mid-1990's VF's and they absolutely refuse to work with the HFO on parts. Instead they say "we better call Chuck" who then drives out and does essentially the same troubleshooting process as the HFO, except without the warranty or liability.

So I'm sure there are other guys (or repair centers) out there that are qualified to fix Haas parts. Though personally I don't know if I'd use them unless they were factory authorized. It's not a knowledge/experience issue for me, but rather a liability one. I like that the factory will backup their HFO's repairs, and to be blunt if there's a big damn problem then you can ***** to the factory about it and they take responsibility for the tech

Personally I'd rather have a factory-liable and warranted repair. If there are other Haas-authorized service centers beside for the HFO I wouldn't be opposed to trying them out, but that's just my take on it.

Then again we've had to get repairs made so seldom that I can't really speak as the mouth of someone who has had to deal a lot with any repairs let alone bad repairs...

[locash]

I'd be pissed too if I had to pay the labor for a misdiagnosed part. I'd expect a Factory trained technician to follow the proper protocol for troubleshooting the problem, not throw parts at it until it works, and then expect the customer to foot the bill for all of my guessing.

I'd ***** at someone until I felt I was treated fairly. Can any of you bill a customer for the time it took to improperly machine parts if it was your screwup?

[indian mark]

Hmmm.... found this...This must be "Chuck". Suppose I'll give him a call and ask for some references. (Ydna has a good point with the liability/warranty issues)

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...s_service.html

[haastec]

indian mark,

I do see the point you were making about finding different service options. If you find someone independant who fits your needs, then by all means go for it. It's prudent business as far a I am concerned.

Regarding the OP problem, I will not say either side is wrong or right here since I do not have all of the details, but sometimes when troubleshooting a problem you cannot move to the next stage of troubleshooting unless you try something else first. Maybe he is an idiot, maybe that was the best course of action, I don't know. If it was so cut and dry what the problem was, why not tell him in the first place.

Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I have been there. Sometimes you take the wrong course of action and sometimes you don't. The difference between luck and experience can sometimes get foggy.

All the best to you for finding a good indy. If you do not have much luck and are forced to use the same HFO, talk to the service manager about some of your concerns you have and if you really do not have confidence in the tech you mentioned, just as for someone different.

I hope this come across nicely because that was my intention. If not, please accept my apologies. Good luck on your quest to finding a quality tech.

[haastec]

I'd be pissed too if I had to pay the labor for a misdiagnosed part. I'd expect a Factory trained technician to follow the proper protocol for troubleshooting the problem, not throw parts at it until it works, and then expect the customer to foot the bill for all of my guessing.

I'd ***** at someone until I felt I was treated fairly. Can any of you bill a customer for the time it took to improperly machine parts if it was your screwup?

Troubleshooting a problem is not the same as improperly machining a part. Troubleshooting is a process of elimination! I sure would like to know what that proper protocol for troubleshooting is because it would have made my job so much easier all these years. Do you have a copy of that book? Please share.

What do you think a doctor does to diagnose someone? They try a course of action based on their best experiences. If that doesn't work, they try something else and test for this and that; and by the way, the patient/insurance is paying for all that guesswork of throwing medicine at the problem.

It's frustrating, I get it! Get over it, because it's not an exact science. It's either that or dig in and fix it yourself.

Rant over!

[onemanband]

I have found Gerotech to be extremely fair with thier billing over the years. They are not cheap but if the part fails in 90 days they cover it with out questions. If there was a mistake made by thier tech they normal comp travel and or hours within reason if you explain your case to them. Have you talked to the service manager? If you haven't I would try that if you feel there may have been a mistake. If you did talk to them did they adjust your bill for travel and or hours?

[indian mark]

indian mark,

I do see the point you were making about finding different service options. If you find someone independant who fits your needs, then by all means go for it. It's prudent business as far a I am concerned.

Regarding the OP problem, I will not say either side is wrong or right here since I do not have all of the details, but sometimes when troubleshooting a problem you cannot move to the next stage of troubleshooting unless you try something else first. Maybe he is an idiot, maybe that was the best course of action, I don't know. If it was so cut and dry what the problem was, why not tell him in the first place.

Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I have been there. Sometimes you take the wrong course of action and sometimes you don't. The difference between luck and experience can sometimes get foggy.

All the best to you for finding a good indy. If you do not have much luck and are forced to use the same HFO, talk to the service manager about some of your concerns you have and if you really do not have confidence in the tech you mentioned, just as for someone different.

I hope this come across nicely because that was my intention. If not, please accept my apologies. Good luck on your quest to finding a quality tech.

I totally agree with you.
I also think I may have sounded a bit harsh on the tech. I think he's an experienced, knowledgeable guy. He was genuinely surprised that the new motor didn't solve the problem. I do think it was a mistake on his part though.
The billing dept did discount me the travel time for the second trip (not labor time) and I was OK with that and promptly paid the bill. With that said, I still feel that they'll gouge a little when it's convenient. I'm sure they think they gave me a great deal. (I've also been on the side of the coin of giving someone a great deal that you just can't please)

[indian mark]

Troubleshooting a problem is not the same as improperly machining a part. Troubleshooting is a process of elimination! I sure would like to know what that proper protocol for troubleshooting is because it would have made my job so much easier all these years. Do you have a copy of that book? Please share.

In this particular case, before ordering an expensive part that will take a week to come in and warrant a second trip, take a look at what else it could be.
(Not trying to be a smart @$$)(It was an amplifier BTW)

[haastec]

You are probably very right in your assessment so it is very unfortunate that you had to suffer for things.

There are definitely lousy techs out there making a mess of things. I am quite sure I have my moments of stupidity as well.

Again, good luck on your search.