[Fuelrush]

Hello, this is my first post. Just to give you some background about myself, I live in TN [Knoxville Area (Hi Pete!)]. I've been doing the machinist thing for a while, I do Tool and Die maintenance, but unfortunately my particular job doesn't give me the machine time I'd like. I've been trolling this forum for years on and off. I'm hoping to get started milling before long. I've read a lot of recent posts trying to educate myself on whats available. I'm looking for a larger bench machine. Seems like the options are Sieg's, Rong Fu, and Grizzly models. I seen someone mentioned the IH machine. My intention is to get a nice mill now and eventually CNC it. I was hoping I could quickly go the cnc route when the time came. I'd rather not have a couple year project on my hands if I can avoid it. Just buy equipment and install. Some work is fine though. I'm not familiar with all the electronic parts and computer equipment required for CNC but I do have a PC/Technology background/education also (Machining was more fun so I threw that degree out the window ).

My initial thoughts on a machine.
I'd like something with over 8" in the Y.
My home isn't setup for any type of extra electrical anything :-( What options do I have here?
I'm not sure how I'd move or lift this size of machine. Delivery wouldn't be bad they can back the truck up to a decent size two car garage.

My first thoughts were to buy a turnkey mill like little machine shops (Sieg), but thought I'd be tired of the small capacity quickly. Larger turnkeys are way too expensive.

Budget for the mill. I'd rather not spend over $3k (including shipping cost). It would be nice to save money on the mill for tooling but not required.

Thanks everyone, I look forward to the responses.

[pete from TN]

Nice to meet another East Tennesseer.... I am down in the Maryville area. There are some guys locally that are into CNC and machining here but not too many. If you need any help with anything just give a shout... Not sure what kinda machine you are looking for, there are quite a few options if you intend to roll your own CNC here. If you recognize my name you probably already know I own and like the RF45 machines. Really comes down to what your needs are and what your travels need to be. These machines are pretty amazing and you can do so much with a pc and some pieces parts here. Don't worry about moving even the larger machines you see here as your average engine crane is capable of lifting and moving them around okay. I use an old collapsible one that I welded into a permanent one altho you can still unbolt it and take it apart for transport. The legs are permanently attatched now tho. Check out the various build threads on here and decide what you need and like and want. There are many here who have lots of good information to help you out. What part of K-town are ya in? Anyways, welcome to the madness... peace

Pete

[Fuelrush]

I'm actually outside of close to Morristown, but its just a skip to Knoxville really. I'm really interested in the IH machine from reading their site. Not sure what it would take or cost to eventually convert to cnc. Rong Fu clone is cheaper off the bat. I just found the IH forums. Second post was about possible customer service and delivery issues? Humm. I'll have to read more later.

[pete from TN]

You can buy the same basic machine from a dealer in Canada called MTW.... they might have to charge more for shipping tho. I think the IH is probably the best benchtop machine around and is really a huge little mill. The travels are amazing and if I had known about them when I bought my machine I would have gotten one of those. These are all chinese mills tho and can have some issues here and there. Most seem to be pretty pleased with the RF45 style mills and they are certainly heavy duty. You can read about my machine on my build thread here called " finally getting started". If you get one of the RF45 style including the IH which is very similar there is a lot of good information in there that might help you make decisions about your machine. I am putting mine back together after some computer issues now and if you like you can see mine run.

My sister in law lives in Morristown. We sometimes go up there for birthdays or whatnot. It is not that far really, maybe 45 minutes to an hour if the traffic sucks... anyways, good luck and peace...

Pete

[TarHeelTom]

My home isn't setup for any type of extra electrical anything :-( What options do I have here?

I'm not sure how I'd move or lift this size of machine. Delivery wouldn't be bad they can back the truck up to a decent size two car garage.

Budget for the mill. I'd rather not spend over $3k (including shipping cost). It would be nice to save money on the mill for tooling but not required.

Are you really limited to a table top machine? You've got probably 220 volt single phase, right? You've got a two car garage?

How about a Bridgeport or good Bridgeport clone?

My 2 HP Bridgeport runs off a single 20 amp breaker, using a VFD to provide 3 phase power.

True, at 7' 6" tall, we had to tip it a bit to get through the door, but not a big problem. I'd suggest picking it up with a car carrying trailer, then lift it off with a forklift at your house. You can get several pieces of round stock and use them for rollers, or you can just move it with a couple of crowbars.

There are probably several tons of New Old Stock (NOS) and surplus used tooling available for big mills, at much lower prices than for my tabletop mill.

And a good used Bridgeport would fit well within your budget.

Tom

[pete from TN]

That is an interesting comparison.... If you have the space for both and can actually move either of these machines into your shop space then it is a fair comparison. Many do not have the space for a bridgeport. Remember that most bridgeports have a 9x42 table with around 30 some odd inches of travel. That means that you need to have space to run that long table back and forth in both directions from the center which is more distance than you might imagine. Also the Bridgeport is a stronger much heavier American made machine. I LOVE old Bridgeports and they are very capable mills that have TONS of aftermarket support both in tooling and CNC controls.The tooling is not as much a concern as they both use the R8 typically.... Most are three phase which requires at least a VFD or phase converter. They are usually step pulley arrangements in this price range for a decent machine.

I used to have a small knee mill here and the RF IMHO is a much nicer machine to actually use under CNC control. The RF45 takes up a little less space, can take almost an equal cut which is an awful lot in the grand scheme of things. To go CNC with the RF45 allows you to completely run the whole head up and down on the column which is very nice. The Knee mill you have the option of controlling the knee or the quill or both. The knee is extremely heavy and some have had issues with doing it this way. Either machine under CNC control is a VERY capable machine with the IH machine getting closer to the travels of the Bridgeport. One other thing to consider is that if you do go CNC and need to do a bunch of machining you can completely enclose the RF45 machine and when you do a knee mill you either need to make a table mounted enclosure or run wide open.... The fully enclosed mill is a little easier to run and keep clean IMHO. Table enclosures can be a little tricky to implement because you need to be able to seal all around and also get that head in there to move around.

Ultimately the true Bridgeport is probably a slightly more usable machine than an RF45 and if it is not worn out is probably gonna be a more accurate machine due to the American made castings and movements. Honestly now that my RF45 machine is fully enclosed and running under CNC control with mach3 it takes up about as much space as the Bridgeport might I think and altho I love it and would do it again, a CNC Bridgeport is a very close alternative to this. The Brigeport machines are excellent manual machines as well for a home shop. Many have power downfeed and can run relatively high spindle speeds. Their bearings are also probably larger and more high quality. The real issues to me are the overall size and weight, the difficulty in enclosing the machining envelope to keep from making a terrible mess, and the idea that you might get one that is really worn out. Just be careful and make sure you really check it out if you go that route or buy a newer clone like HIMY has.

The RF45 has plenty of issues as well with the head being a gear head and runs kinda noisy with relatively slow spindle speeds, the castings on some are of questionable quality, the head is very heavy and you really need to engineer your mountings for the CNC control carefully. Overall I am quite pleased with mine and once it went cnc it is a totally different machine now especially with the belt drive conversion. It makes chips in bucketfully when I am running aluminum and the full enclosure keep MOST of it out of the house so momma is happy. Either way you get a really great and interesting machine that can do MOST things with relative ease. Peace

Pete

[Fuelrush]

I do have the room for a Bridgeport right now, and in all likelihood I will be getting a large full size mill eventually. I'm holding off on that for now. I'm not certain I will be living in this house for longer than another year and a half. We may be moving quite some distance (depends). Also the next house or place we move I'll have a dedicated shop for hobby and "work." Then that will be the time for the knee mill and more.

Ok, I'm still reading/learning. Here's some questions.

Power: I know nothing of electrical setups. In my garage I just have 110 outlets. In the other side of my basement I have a washer and dryer. I assume the dryer is 200-something volts (3 prong outlet, breaker box has joined breakers that say 30 [amps], It also looks like I have a few places left to punch out for more breakers) I'm looking at setting up my mill in this area of the basement very close to this breaker box. What would I have to do to get power if I went with a 220v setup? Easy fix for electrician? Again I'll probably be moving so I don't want to spend a bunch for a lot of wiring and setup.

Mill: I emailed MTW to see what a quote for the mill shipped would be. I'm guessing with the stand it would be close to $3k. So I started to think about what you guys said about the Bridgeport and I got to thinking about moving and getting one when I have my shop. This made me realize I could probably get away fairly easy with a RF-45. Since in a few years I'll likely have a full size mill to go along with it. This would save me around $1,500 to not have the IH clone. How much of a dent would $1,500 make on acquiring parts for converting a RF-45 (not including computer and software)? I won't go all out and over the top on parts. I just want capable and working machine. A "Good" machine.

Btw, I've got to work with older than dirt bridgeports, newer bridgeports, and ran a lot of cool stuff on one of their new at the time (5 years ago) CNC mills. I miss them all!!! I currently use a nice Makino CNC Mill but its a shame, other than basic angles/pockets/bosses it NEVER gets a to see any loaded G-Code programs.

[pete from TN]

You should be fine with the RF45 mill, it is pretty nice and can do a lot of what a good bridgeport will. What is nice too is that you can keep the RF45 and go CNC and then when you get your Bridgeport mill you can keep it manual if you like for other stuff. I think you will like the RF45 tho...

If you have a breakout panel in your garage near the mill it should be a trivial matter for a pro to come in there and setup an aux box for pluggin in the mill to 220v single phase. It really is no big deal.... There is a fellow locally that has some machines for sale brand new and one of them is a RF45 clone... I got his number somewhere here that I can call him about it but I am undecided about my next machine so I have not called him. The machines are in North Maryville, south Knoxville area, unless he already sold it... peace

Pete