[dbrija]

Might be a premature post as I have not looked into things yet, but maybe others have had this noise.

My Z axis sounds pretty strange when making slow speed moves in the Z- direction. It can rapid up and down with not a sound, but I have noticed when using feedrates of 15 or slower, it sounds like a sack of marbles rolling around against each other. Z+ (up) is fine, Z- (toward the table) sounds awful. Plenty of lube, nothing seems loose, etc...

I put Loctite on all the coupler bolts when I setup the mill initially, and I am not losing steps in the Z (it is very repeatable and stable), so that is not a problem.

Anyone heard something like this before?

[mcoffey]

Hello there...long time lurker, first time post.

I just received a new PCNC 1100 also, and I'm having the same issue on the Z axis. I was also somewhat concerned about the high level of noise and vibration on X and Y at 10 IPM. I'm working with their tech support people who have been very responsive and great to work with. We swapped the drive modules on the Z and Y without success. They seemed to think it was the Tormach controller PC, so they sent me a new one, but the issue still exists.

I've checked all the connections following the TS guide, snugging them down. Checked the capacitor as suggested, no issue there according to the guide. The X and Y issue is more of a resonance thing, so that I can live with. But the Z axis noise is definitely more mechanical with the same bag of marbles rattling around sound.

I'm sure Tormach will make it right, but I'm interested to see what the other Tormach owners say.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

andyc

[rzrostlik]

Guys,

Here is a link to a video ( [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8jv_gr9VM"]YouTube - Tormach Y axis[/nomedia] ) I shot shortly after getting my PCNC up and running. I had a problem with the Y axis, the first half of the video with a 'cold' machine has a nice quiet sounding Y axis movement, but with a 'warm' machine, the Y axis movement sounded awful.

We had been looking for a Y axis bearing issue. As soon as the Tormach guys say the video we tried swapping the X and Y motor drives. The problem followed the motor drive. One new motor drive later and all was good.

I don't know if the sounds you guys are experiencing is similar to the video, but it may be worth a listen.

Good luck on getting your issues resolved.

Rick

[mcoffey]

Guys,

Here is a link to a video ( YouTube - Tormach Y axis ) I shot shortly after getting my PCNC up and running. I had a problem with the Y axis, the first half of the video with a 'cold' machine has a nice quiet sounding Y axis movement, but with a 'warm' machine, the Y axis movement sounded awful.

We had been looking for a Y axis bearing issue. As soon as the Tormach guys say the video we tried swapping the X and Y motor drives. The problem followed the motor drive. One new motor drive later and all was good.

I don't know if the sounds you guys are experiencing is similar to the video, but it may be worth a listen.

Good luck on getting your issues resolved.

Rick

Thx so much for taking the time to respond. That sounds a lot the my Z drive. Since I'm new to all this, haven't taken the time to notice the difference between cold and warm, but getting ready to fire up the machine now, so I will. Do you notice a louder resonance sound, more vibration when running X or Y at around 10 IPM? I have the deluxe stand, and the sound is attenuated by the sheet metal etc, so I'm not to terribly concerned, but I wish the issue didn't exist.

thanks again,

andyc

[dbrija]

Thx so much for taking the time to respond. That sounds a lot the my Z drive. Since I'm new to all this, haven't taken the time to notice the difference between cold and warm, but getting ready to fire up the machine now, so I will. Do you notice a louder resonance sound, more vibration when running X or Y at around 10 IPM? I have the deluxe stand, and the sound is attenuated by the sheet metal etc, so I'm not to terribly concerned, but I wish the issue didn't exist.

thanks again,

andyc

I have some resonance in the other axes at 10IPM, but it is all dominated by the Z axis. I went ahead and swapped the driver module with my 4th axis, but the issue is exactly the same. Looks like I have a bad stepper. I may try my backup PC just to see, but this was not a problem until yesterday, so the PC likely has nothing to do with it.

Update:
Well, definitely a hardware issue. Same noise in a second controller, and under EMC. I almost wonder if its fighting with the braking function.. the top cap on the motor gets very hot. If I go to 12 or 8 IPM, it is not near as bad. Time to talk to support.

[dbrija]

Here is a video: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKXAILg2VNo"]YouTube - Z-axis noise.MOV[/nomedia]

Moves at 10IPM, then 25IPM. Huge difference. No spindle running. Purely Z motion.

[twocik]

"
Here is a link to a video ( YouTube - Tormach Y axis ) "



Had the same exact problem in the first part of the video, the screws on the heads shell are loose or latch. Tighten them around the outside and see what happens. Actually tighten every screw you can find inside and out. As for the knocking sound once warmed up, this could be your ball screw housing that needs some adjusting (underneath the tables). Might I add a real PIA to get to. I made a M5 socket head tool and used a mirror to get to mine.





"YouTube - Z-axis noise.MOV"

The sound in this video almost sounds like a problem I've had in the past, but a little different. I'd check and make sure your gibs aren't too tight and that the way is getting enough oil (check your lines).

Next I'd unbolt everything in the Z housing expect for the spanner nuts (make sure these aren't too too tight either). *** before you do this read how to do it first*** Put the coupler on the bottom part of the Z ball screw rod first, then insert and tighten the motor (Top left screw, bottom right screw, top right, bottom left). In my experience this helped take the pressure out and after that it was smooth ride.

Last I'd pull out the gib ( WARNING read on how to do this first as well ) and check the straightness after you've been thru everything else.

[dbrija]

"
Here is a link to a video ( YouTube - Tormach Y axis ) "



Had the same exact problem in the first part of the video, the screws on the heads shell are loose or latch. Tighten them around the outside and see what happens. Actually tighten every screw you can find inside and out. As for the knocking sound once warmed up, this could be your ball screw housing that needs some adjusting (underneath the tables). Might I add a real PIA to get to. I made a M5 socket head tool and used a mirror to get to mine.





"YouTube - Z-axis noise.MOV"

The sound in this video almost sounds like a problem I've had in the past, but a little different. I'd check and make sure your gibs aren't too tight and that the way is getting enough oil (check your lines).

Next I'd unbolt everything in the Z housing expect for the spanner nuts (make sure these aren't too too tight either). *** before you do this read how to do it first*** Put the coupler on the bottom part of the Z ball screw rod first, then insert and tighten the motor (Top left screw, bottom right screw, top right, bottom left). In my experience this helped take the pressure out and after that it was smooth ride.

Last I'd pull out the gib ( WARNING read on how to do this first as well ) and check the straightness after you've been thru everything else.

I puled the way covers and everything seems lubed up. I am going to pull the lines and make sure though. I had thought about puling the Z axis motor and re-aligning, so based on your experience, I will go ahead with that as well.

I hope not to have to pull the gib already (I have very little time on the machine), but I'll do what I have to. Hopefully its just aligning the motor again...

[dbrija]

Additional debug steps I have done:

1. Removed the Z axis way cover, and verified the lube flow. All looks very good on both sides of the column, through the gib, both dovetails, etc....
2. Loosened the Z axis stepper, and ran the axis up and down to center the motor. No change, but rapid moves are even quieter than they were.
3. Loosened the coupler, loosened the Z axis motor, went through #2 again, no changes.
4. Loosened up the Z gib, and verified that had zero impact on the problem.

I almost wonder if it is a software issue (Mach3 setup) that shows up at slow feeds. I'm not touching the .xml though. I'll work with tech support there. Only thing that shoots that theory down is that it sounds identical under EMC. That makes sense if EMC derived its profile from the Mach3 setup, but I assume for now it is independently derived.

[dbrija]

Guys,

Here is a link to a video ( YouTube - Tormach Y axis ) I shot shortly after getting my PCNC up and running. I had a problem with the Y axis, the first half of the video with a 'cold' machine has a nice quiet sounding Y axis movement, but with a 'warm' machine, the Y axis movement sounded awful.

We had been looking for a Y axis bearing issue. As soon as the Tormach guys say the video we tried swapping the X and Y motor drives. The problem followed the motor drive. One new motor drive later and all was good.

I don't know if the sounds you guys are experiencing is similar to the video, but it may be worth a listen.

Good luck on getting your issues resolved.

Rick

Rick,

Did you happen to try loosening the Y axis motor and allow it to recenter itself? Worth a shot.... I did this on my Z. Didn't solve my problem, but it did make the already quit rapids even quieter.

Danny Brija

[twocik]

"I puled the way covers and everything seems lubed up. I am going to pull the lines and make sure though. I had thought about puling the Z axis motor and re-aligning, so based on your experience, I will go ahead with that as well.

I hope not to have to pull the gib already (I have very little time on the machine), but I'll do what I have to. Hopefully its just aligning the motor again..."



Yes I too had pretty much no time to play with it and my 2 year old makes sure of that. It seems like a pain to deal with at first and not having time to machine the things you bought it for can be frustrating, but I'll tell you it has helped me so much to have learned how the machine works and where everything is. Better now then in the middle of a big run, right ?

Remember to put the block of wood under the spindle nose first, and step it down until it rest on the block. Just like the way the machine came. It's really not that bad for X & Y, but the Z does require something to hold it up while inspecting the gib. Another tip is to keep the gib in the spot the machine was inspected and documented or you'll really need to do some tinkering. However not every machine is the same. How about checking the ways for anything that looks like a gash, deep scratch ? Sometimes cast debris is left behind and gets stuck. I'd take out the gibs, clean them good or loosen them enough to flush them out with Tormach way oil.







"I almost wonder if it is a software issue (Mach3 setup) that shows up at slow feeds. I'm not touching the .xml though."


Ahhh yea Tormach did sent out a file about 5 months ago or so, this was to fix the noisy Z problem, but not sure to what extent. If you're new owner it's still very possible you have an old file and could at least try to update. Email Tormach

[dbrija]

Spoke with Daniel at Tormach, and he pondered a bit, and remembered having a machine with a similar sound at some point. Turned out to be the brake on the Z axis motor rattling about.

So, I hung up the phone, pulled off the Z brake, and guess what, its bone dry. No grease in there like there should be. With the brake pulled aside, running the axis at 10IPM vibrates, but no more marbles in a sack sound. I will add a heavy grease to the brake assembly and move on now.

Procedure is to do this with the machine powered up, or lower the head and rest it on a wood block. Otherwise, the head will fall as soon as you cut the power. Remove the 4 bolts, and very gently pull up on the brake assembly. The lead for the brake solenoid is very short, and is at the back right quadrant as you face the mill (2 o'clock position). Don't know if you need to remove the 4 screws and disassemble the whole brake assembly or not, as I will have to do the greasing later on tonight.

Conclusions:

1. 10IPM is a natural resonant frequency for the steppers. Daniel confirmed this.
2. If your Z axis is noisy like marbles in a sack, odds are you need to pack the brake assembly with grease.

:cheers:

[BlueFin]

1. 10IPM is a natural resonant frequency for the steppers. Daniel confirmed this.

Yeah, 10 IPM on the Tormach does sound terrible, now I know why.