[PraeTac]

Hello,
I need help figuring out what I need to get started. I am not a machinist and have no back ground in it, which is why I came to this community for assistance.
I own a firearms store and am trying to set up a shop to build firearms, and parts (All legally as I have the required licenses). To begin with I would like to make AR-15 lower receivers, 1911 frames, Picatinny rails, and magazines (See Pictures). I would like to have everything as automated as I can, as I would like to hire only one or two operators to begin with. Most items will be made out of Aluminum, though if I could make some out of Titanium as well, I think it would be pretty cool.
I need to know what machines would be the best for this, where to buy them, and where to find the plans for them. Most of the firearm parts with need to be machined, while the mags can probably be stamped. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for looking

[underthetire]

What kind of quantity per week are you trying to do?

[PraeTac]

I would probably be looking at 10-20 per week to begin with. It would mostly depend on the demand. If the demand was for 100 a week, then that would be what I would want, but to begin with 10-20. Thank you

[Vsmfg]

We've done plenty of Hand gun Frames. We have also machined bolt careers for AR15. The Frames ran best on a Vertical Machining Center (op10) and another Vertical with 4th axis(op20).
The receiver ran best on a Horizontal Machining center.

Krasi
VS Manufacturing
Mundelein, IL

[br1]

You are joking right? Making parts like that with no machining background and perhaps using titanium? I am not trying to poke fun at your dream, but I can tell you with over 40 years in the business, It will be a long road from grabbing a block of steel and pushing a button to have a finished part, but I can respect your dream, good luck on your journey.

[PraeTac]

Really at this point I am just trying to figure out what is plausible. I won't be the one machining them, but I will be the guy buying the machines and materials. I appreciate the input vsmfg. Thank you for letting me know. Where is the best place to find these machines?

[underthetire]

Well, I can give you a little help, others will chime in soon. Those pieces you put pictures up are machined cast parts, at lease they sure look like it. They can be machined from bar stock, but it's going to take multiple set ups and a lot of tooling. This combined with your knowledge level of CNC, is going to be VERY expensive to get going. You will need to purchase a mill, vertical will work for the smaller numbers, with an indexer. Figure at lease 30 different tools plus holders, clamps for the fixturing, material for fixturing, machining time for fixturing and it just continues.

For small qty per week, I would think a smallish vertical mill with a indexer to be able to get a couple sides of those parts without having to re-clamp them too much. Aluminum a Haas would work well, Ti, your going to need something a little more robust IMO like a Mori. If you get to the 100-200 per week or more, a horizontal would be the way to go.

[Vsmfg]

Well, there are a number of machine tool builders who offer good quality Vertical and Horizontal Machining Centers.
Vertical and Horizontal Machining Centers - Mori Seiki, Kitamura, Toyoda
but there are plenty other out there. The machine tool selection will depend on your production volume, level of automation, budget etc.
Call one of your local machine tool sales rep and tell them what you need.

It takes a lot of experience to machine these parts.

Good luck!

Really at this point I am just trying to figure out what is plausible. I won't be the one machining them, but I will be the guy buying the machines and materials. I appreciate the input vsmfg. Thank you for letting me know. Where is the best place to find these machines?

[mike_Kilroy]

Tac,

As a successful business owner, and knowing your product as you must selling them, you no doubt understand profit and loss & ROI. From the expert CNC folks here's replies, it sure sounds to me like you may go a better way: spec the parts and have some of these cnc experts make them for you with your name on them to your spec. Sounds like the return on investment might be 1000% times better in the first 35 years of doing it! You got some interest already from some of the guys here it seems, and there are a zillion others who have small shops who probably would love to make your parts. I met one fellow on here from N. Ohio who actually makes various parts just like you are going for in his small shop. We probably will work with him sometime to build another new rifler machine similar to ones we've worked on elsewhere. So if this is an option, why not post it and see if you get any interest that might lead you a slightly different way without the need for all the upfront machine cost. Just another idea.

[rmarchjr]

I agree with Mike_kilroy.
Purely as business - ROI & cash flow is the way.

If you want to learn and have 60K to invest in one or two machines and tooling and don't mind waiting a while to get paid back then your on the right track. You will need a very experienced machinist who knows something about weapons to help you with material choice, heat/treat & coatings. Don't forget about a paint shop & CNC CAD/CAM software- 20K. Presses & tooling(u making it) for the stampings - 20K.
Id bet it will cost you minimum $100K USD

or let somebody else make your parts to your tolerances while you focus on selling more of them...

[doorknob]

You may find the following site to be of interest:

CNCGUNSMITHING - www.cncguns.com - Home of the AR45

[Tommy B]

I just had to add this picture. It's what some guy in Russia made by hand. Kind of off topic, kind of in topic.

[0llie]

A bigger question for you is about the laws in Canada regarding firearms manufacturing and ownership. There is little point if you can't legally own what you want to make... or maybe the laws have changed recently. Last I knew the government really didn't want anyone to own firearms there and with active registration campaigns and licensing guidelines...

Manufacturing here is strictly controlled if for-profit (read not for your own use) and the penalties are high. Not saying don't do it just do it right.

BTW- AR lowers sell for about $150 now for a decent one and 1911 frames are $200 and up. Both markets have a lot of competition. Magazines are a whole different segment...

[Karl_T]

Just for theAR15 lower...

You can buy the forging here:
AR15 Lower Receiver 7075-T6 Alloy Forging, Military Spec - 1001-D S Arms

Making this part into a finished lower is a relatively simple project. Good place to start.

Karl