[rcotteleer]

I have a Sieg X3 already converted and now the spindle motor is on it's last legs. The replacement from Sieg is reasonable in cost, but I wanted to know if any of you have suggestions for an upgrade. I would like something that would still interface with the Sieg electronics. Is it a standard frame motor where I could just buy a higher quality replacement?

[cncadmin]

Read this- http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...4&page=2&pp=15

[rcotteleer]

Thanks, I had read that thread but it largely dealt with high speed spindles, my question revolved around a replacement for a stock spindle motor with an upgrade in quality. I guess the question is really:

Are the Sieg motors standard frame sizes and what recommendations do people have for higher quality replacements?

[pppmike]

Has anyone tried the X3 Brushless DC Motor and Driver from Kelling? I have converted all of my benchtop lathes over to DC variable speed motors now and really want to convert my Sieg X3 Mill over to a DC variable speed motor with higher RPM in the range of 4000 to 6000 RPM. John told me this week that he sold one of these Brushless DC Motors and Drivers to a Chris and I am wondering if anyone knows how well it worked out.

[cjdavis618]

Hey PPPMike,

I'm Chris and the one that John at Keling is talking about. I purchased the 2.2Kw model that he had. It comes from a company called "Sangmutan"

I posted what I know about it in this thread around the 4th page. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93745

I like the motor and the controller, as was said by another poster, it is very well made and I am working with them on the Mach3 interface. I am also ready to buy the 1100 watt model to go in my SX3. After seeing this motor and driver in action, a little more tweaking and I think we will see many more of these at keling.

Oh, and the 2200 watt motor is a beast. No way it will fit on an X3 or SX3 unless you mounted it from the top with the pulley facing downward. IT would be a great fit for an RF45 or maybe even a smaller bridgeport 8x series. The motor alone is 20 lbs

[pppmike]

Chris, Thanks for getting back to me. John says you got the last one and I would have to have one shipped from China. My main questions are will it mount right up to where the original one was, what size is the output shaft, and can it be at least started and stopped within Mach3? I am also concerned how much torque it has. Any information you can give me would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike

[cjdavis618]

Chris, Thanks for getting back to me. John says you got the last one and I would have to have one shipped from China. My main questions are will it mount right up to where the original one was, what size is the output shaft, and can it be at least started and stopped within Mach3? I am also concerned how much torque it has. Any information you can give me would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike

Since I only have the 2200 watt model at this point. No that one will not fit. But looking at the info he posted on the other thread about the 1100 watt motor, That one looks as though it is exactly the same shaft dimensions and the motor is very close in overall size based in the drawings. But I can't be exactly sure since I haven't blueprinted my existing SX3 motor. The motor wouldn't have the same dimensions as the X3 version though, that would take more fabrications but would work just as well.

My understanding is that John has already got more on the way from our discussion over last week. As far as stopping and starting in Mach3. There are actually 4 different ways that this unit can be controlled, but the batch that Keling gets may not have all or any of them active.

From the instruction manual that was posted in the other thread, there is 0-10 Analog input, PWM, RS485 (Unknown if Modbus works yet) and TTL.

Surely we can get the order to include the 0-10 volt which may be the easiest and the most widespread way to use these drivers.

John will be out till the 9th, and I will be on vaca from the 9th until the 12th, but I will hopefully be able to work with Zhang at Sangmutan to get a solution before then on my 2200 watt set and post some videos of it in action.

[cjdavis618]

Oh, just to give an update on my plans with that motor, I am going to replace the motor and pulleys in my Grizzly G0516 lathe and move it to a Variable speed motor. It will be a perfect fit for that and will allow me to keep great low end torque.

You asked about that earlier and I can tell you from my SX3 and it's existing BLDC drive, you won't stop it at slow speeds unless you do something horribly wrong.



Edit, (I got happy with a feed rate and DOC when I first started and snapped a 1/2" endmill at around 400 rpm late one night. It snapped all 4 flutes. It was carbide but that still is alot of torque in these setups.)

[pppmike]

Chris,

Thanks for all the information. I am just looking for a way to get rid of the original motor and controller. I want to end up with more HP and RPM along with control from Mach3. It sounds like this motor and controller will do that. I currently have one of the G0463's with the CNC Fusion best conversion. I didn't know if the motor was going to fairly easily bolt up to the same area the original motor was bolted to. It sounds to me some modifications will be need to be made to allow the new motor to bolt up but I can do that.

John Kelling had told me that he wouldn't have any of the KL-2260_BLM Brushless Motors available for at least 45 days unless I wanted to pay to have one drop shipped from China to me. I wouldn't mind doing that except that it is still unclear to me if this motor and controller are really going to work on my G0463 or not. Chris are we talking about the same motor. The one John has listed as for the X3 is a 2200W (3 HP) /6000RPM Motor with the part number I referred to earlier in this reply. John simply refers to it as a Milling Machine spindle with Motor Driver Kit. Could you verify to me that this is the motor you have installed on your X3 and that it is working OK and will fit the X3 without a great deal of modification. I also fear it may be too heavy for the Z Axis motor to lift even though I have one prop on my X3. I do not know anything about a 1100 Watt version of this motor.

Thanks a lot for your help,

Mike

[pppmike]

Chris,

I just got on the Kelling web page and still can not find the 1100 Watt
Motor with controller mentioned anywhere. Just where did you find this information about this motor? That is the motor I believe I will need for my X3. I also plan on buying a Grizzly G0619 (SX3) and installing the CNC Fusion Best Kit with all their gingerbread. I am very happy with my G0463 and have been using it now for over 2 years without any problems at all. I just want to upgrade the motor and controller for it to DC with higher RPM's and Mach3 Control. Another problem I have found with the G0463 is its motor switching. It makes it very complicated to just turn the motor on and off using Mach3.

Thanks for your help,

Mike

[cjdavis618]

Chris,

Thanks for all the information. I am just looking for a way to get rid of the original motor and controller. I want to end up with more HP and RPM along with control from Mach3. It sounds like this motor and controller will do that. I currently have one of the G0463's with the CNC Fusion best conversion. I didn't know if the motor was going to fairly easily bolt up to the same area the original motor was bolted to. It sounds to me some modifications will be need to be made to allow the new motor to bolt up but I can do that.

John Kelling had told me that he wouldn't have any of the KL-2260_BLM Brushless Motors available for at least 45 days unless I wanted to pay to have one drop shipped from China to me. I wouldn't mind doing that except that it is still unclear to me if this motor and controller are really going to work on my G0463 or not. Chris are we talking about the same motor. The one John has listed as for the X3 is a 2200W (3 HP) /6000RPM Motor with the part number I referred to earlier in this reply. John simply refers to it as a Milling Machine spindle with Motor Driver Kit. Could you verify to me that this is the motor you have installed on your X3 and that it is working OK and will fit the X3 without a great deal of modification. I also fear it may be too heavy for the Z Axis motor to lift even though I have one prop on my X3. I do not know anything about a 1100 Watt version of this motor.

Thanks a lot for your help,

Mike

Yes, this is the 2200 watt motor that shows to be 3HP.

I have not and cannot install this motor on my Sx3 G0619 mill. It is to large for the cavity on the mill and I do not have enough headroom to install above the mill head. I have a low ceiling and only have 6" at full Z+. My plan is to use it with my lathe build but the electronics and motor are worth the money.

The 2200 watt motor is 20 lbs so It would make a difference on the motor used to lift the Z axis.


The 1100 Watt version was listed on Kelings website up till Sunday before last. He removed that and left the 2200 watt series. The 1100 watt model information can be found at the Sangmutan website. John mentioned that he was ordering more of them, I did ask specifically for the 1100 watt model as well with all inputs active.

My Sx3 has a Brushless DC motor and control that cannot be interfaced with Mach3. It is an 1000 watt motor. It shows to be the same size of the 1100 watt model and should be a drop in replacement on an SX3. Furthermore, the Button plate that the current SX3 face uses can be replaced with the new plate from Sangmutan without modification. It is the same size for bolt pattern and button layout.

I purchased a motor from teyber12 a while back that I was going to use in a small lathe scratch build, but the motor came in damaged so I have been trying to decide what to do with it. I was able to set the new motor up next to the regular X3 motor for comparison. They are no where near the same size.

[pppmike]

Chris,

I thought I was crazy. I just couldn't find the 1100 Watt Motor and Driver Board on the Kelling web site. Now I know why.

Trying to get information out of John on this 1100 W motor is very hard. He didn't know if it was 110 volt AC or 220 volt AC. On the motor web site it shows both voltages on the motor but only 220 volt on the motor board. I will have to get some accurate information about this from someone. It has been really difficult getting answers to questions on these motors and driver boards.

I asked John if the motor was a bolt on replacement, what the output shaft size was, and the weight of the motor to see what impact it would have on the Z Axis motor, and of course, the voltages. He never really answered any of these questions. I also asked if the driver board would communicate with Mach3 and he didn't know that either. He DID NOT tell me that he had ordered more of these motors in but it is good to know that he has. I just need to get my questions answered.

I have the X3 with CNC Fusion's BEST kit and just love it. The only thing I don't like is the spindle motors RPM limits and not being able to talk with Mach3. I REALLY don't see much to be gained with buying the SX3 over the X3 when they are going to be CNC'd. If you know something I don't about what the SX3 has the X3 doesn't, please let me know.

Thanks,

Mike

[cjdavis618]

The X3 use to have a smaller table than the SX3, but I think that has been changed. I read another post last night that there is a sn SX3L that is even a larger table than the existing SX3.

The SX3 has a much better motor than the X3, but if you have to change all that out for control from Mach 3, it doesn't matter. If I were using it manual, SX3 and DRO all the way.

[pppmike]

Chris,

I just received my Sangmutan 2200W motor from John at Kelling. I had originally ordered the 1100W motor but John emailed me and told me that EVERYONE is using the 2200W motor with the X3. After actually getting the motor and SEEING IT, I doubt seriously if this motor will fit my X3 Mill. I just saw where you stated that the 2200W motor won't fit the X3's motor cavity. While I haven't taken the motor over to my little shop where my X3 is, I am certain you are right. I guess I could look at mounting the 2200W on the top of the X3 or maybe even seeing if a bracket could be made to side mount it to the X3. I must say that I am a little upset with John because I originally ordered the 1100W motor but he insisted that the 2200W motor was the right one for the X3. OH WELL, I probably will keep it and install it on my largest lathe which is the 8x14.

When opening the boxes with the 2200W motor I did not find much in the way of information on the connections of the motor. I have figured out most of it but don't want to put power to it until I am sure everything is right. The driver board that came with it is different than the one pictured on the Kelling page. The package came with a 7 pin 6 wire cable I that plugs into the driver board but I can't find where it goes to. Also, there is another 4 wire cable without any plugs on it, two 7 pin empty plugs, a 5 pin green plug, and a 2 pin green plug. If I am reading the small amount of information correctly, the 3 position connector on the driver board directly below the two fuses are for the 110 volt AC power to the board. I would also assume that the N and L are for the two sides of the AC line with the ground of the AC line screwing into the board where it is marked for ground along with the green and yellow wire from the motor. I am guessing the FG connector is for some sort of meter but I don't know what. The documentation also shows a switch next to where the motor cable plugs in. I am not sure what this switch is for.

Any help will be appreciated.

[cjdavis618]

The 2200 certainly will not fit the X3 series mills. But the 1100w version should be almost a drop in.

I have told John on several occasions that the 2200 watt was to big for the X3, but was going to use it on my lathe instead. I'm not sure why he told you that.

I would send it back and have him send the 1100w Model. Then we can work out the specifics. I need to get mine in as well, but money has been tight.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

A 220W motor in something the size of an X3 is ridiculous - that's almost 3HP! My Bridgeport clone isn't even stiff enough to be abel to really use that much power. I can't imagine why Keling would tell you that made sense....

Regards,
Ray L.

[MrWild]

Because he has a ton of them and needs to sell them?

[pppmike]

Thanks to both of you who replied to me about the motor mixup from Kelling. I was almost positive Chris that you had told me in the past that the 2200W motor was much to big for the X3. I ordered the 1100W motor with driver board and John convinced me that I needed the 2200W motor. There has been a great deal of confusion when it comes to these motors when I have communicated with John. While I feel sure he was trying to help, it has caused problems. As you said Chris, money is tight and I will have to wait to buy the 1100W motor until I pay off some hospital bills. I have emailed to John both of your responses and hope that this will help him to advise customers correctly in the future. Even though I have figured out how to mount this motor and even allow for its extra weight, it is simply to much power for the X3. Thanks to both of you for keeping me sane. I thought that I was having a senior moment about these motors but it comes out that I wasn't.

[pppmike]

Chris,

I have decided to keep the 2200W motor from Kelling. I will be mounting it on my largest lathe. Would you mind going over the wiring connections with me? I think I have everything plugged in properly but want to be sure. Also, there are some cables, plugs, etc. that I have no idea what they are for. I would also appreciate knowing their purposes. The motor came with next to nothing in the way of how to wire it and what the extra components are for. Like I said, I think I have figured out enough to put power to the board and try it but I just want to be sure. John hasn't replied to my email from over the weekend about the confusion. Mike

[cjdavis618]

I gave a complete wright up on the system here. Maybe this will help you get it sorted out.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108728