[crazybrit]

Hi!!

I'm new to this world, taking a beginning metalworking class at the local community college. Also bought a copy of Machine Shop Essentials by Marlow and I'm working through it.

I just bought a used HF 44991 X2 mini-mill. Shocking to see the coupon for $399 I paid $335 delivered but it did come with the LMS power feed, belt drive and air spring mods and it's in good shape so guess I still did OK.

Anyways, the previous owner kept all his tooling as he was upgrading. I have no collets (maybe the 2 are only included free with the Grizzly version).

I'm aware of the LMS 3489 tool bundle. Having very little knowledge I'm wondering what I need, do I need all this as it's $$$ but I know I need something.

I'm a keen motorcyclist and for right now I'm going to mostly be making small parts (always metric if that matters), out of aluminum, for my bikes. One of the first things I want to try and make is a GPS/chartholder like this. Beyond this, no idea. As I get experience I expect my horizons will widen, perhaps to a larger mill like the [S]X3.

Couple questions:
1) Does anyone have a similar kit or parts for sale used? If so, please PM me.

2) Any dislikes about the above LMS kit?

3) Would you recommend building up your own kit instead from individual parts, if so, what parts.

4) I guess any other tooling tips or suggestions for a newbie.

Someone suggested I get a 2" self-centering vice as it will make indexing work much easier. Not sure if this was in addition to the vice included in the above kit or instead of.

A few months ago I got a Grizzly G8688 mini-lathe which came with a ton of tooling. Getting tooling with the machine is the way to go but I doubt much other than the dial gauges etc will transfer over to the mill.

Thanks!

[Bmr4life]

Same questioins here.

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[crazybrit]

Same questioins here.

Cool, glad it's not just me. That said, as thread-starter I call shotgun on any used stuff offered (assuming I'll pay the asking price)

[strohkirchw]

Here are a few things I'd suggest:

-Dial Indicator with Magnetic base and tips
-Dial Test Indicator
-Spindle holder for Dial Test Indicator
-Edge Finder
-Center Finder -- if you feel you need one
-Parallels
-4" Toolmakers vise -- Shars is good for the money
-T nuts and clamps
-Calipers -- cheap ones work consistently to about .002-.003" if you want better pay more

For tooling you could buy some cheaper hss or cobalt stuff to start until you learn feeds/speeds. You'll probably want some drill point end mills and ball end mills as well. You can try Machine Shop Discount Supply/Quad Machinery & Supply or shars.com for good deals.

[luv2ride]

I have the LMS kit and I am happy with it. I don't use all the stuff all the time but none of it a waste. It isn't complete as you do need a dial indicator and base as mentioned.

My beef with the kit is the 6" parallels. 3" would be fine for this mill but if you upgrade later, they will probably be fine.

I really like the vise and think it is good quality. I haven't checked run out on the collets and would like to know how they are. I will be checking in the next couple weeks.

[sansbury]

IMHO most of the endmills in that kit are a waste. I find I do almost all my work with 1/4" and 3/8" mills. Likewise, you probably don't need a full set of 7 collets. LMS is great for a lot of stuff but I'm not so hot on their cutting tool selection. It's worth taking the time to learn how to order from Enco or MSC.

[luv2ride]

IMHO most of the endmills in that kit are a waste. I find I do almost all my work with 1/4" and 3/8" mills. Likewise, you probably don't need a full set of 7 collets. LMS is great for a lot of stuff but I'm not so hot on their cutting tool selection. It's worth taking the time to learn how to order from Enco or MSC.

I would agree with you there. I have used most of my endmills for one thing or another but you're right. I use 3/8" and 1/2" the most with 1/4" close behind. I just got some killer deals from both Enco and Shars on a magnetic base and a bunch of endmills.

[rewster]

+1 for all of the suggestions above. You can be quite capable with the basics, but you'll soon find you "have to have" other tooling when you learn their uses.

I do most of my work in 6061 and 7075 Al. In these materials, I find that my 4$ HSS 2 flute endmills do a much better job than my 25+$ coated ones. It's also a good idea to have some 4 flute carbides on hand in case you need to mill any ferrous metals. My x2 cuts 440 stainless beautifully with carbides at a low depth of cut. I try to buy 3/8 shank endmills, keeps collet changes to a minimum. Also use the shortest bit you can get away with for the job; the longer the flutes, the more it will deflect while cutting. I can't use anything over 1" in 7075 with a decent feedrate.

1-2-3 blocks and angle blocks are great if you're going to be doing any elaborate setups. Much easier to set the work at an angle rather than tilting the column and having to re-tram.

It's an expensive habit.

[Bmr4life]

I wish this stuff was on ebay. I have some GC's I could use there.

[rcazwillis]

I wish this stuff was on ebay. I have some GC's I could use there.

Ebay is loaded with this stuff. Half if my items came through ebay.

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[Bmr4life]

Ebay is loaded with this stuff. Half if my items came through ebay.

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Any sellers in particular? And brand names to specifically look for?

I wish LMS had an ebay store, then I'd also wish the 3900 was in stock.

[hoss2006]

800watt on ebay has the best prices though not always the greatest customer relations.
check these out too for great prices.
Discount Machine Shop items - Get great deals on BTCAT40 50ChuckPullStudFixture items on eBay Stores!
CDCO Machinery Corp.
Hoss

[tmbg]

When I got my first mill, I went nuts buying tooling on ebay. Granted, I spent about $3000 inside a month on tooling, but I got some great deals that way.


You'll want a good vise that's sized appropriately for your machine. Parallels. You'll want collets. Maybe you don't need a full set, but if you don't get a set, you'll be cussing up a storm that one day you need an oddball sized collet. A handful of endmills. A drill chuck on an r8 arbor. I much prefer a spotting drill over centerdrills. A complete set of drill bits and a drill doctor is awesome to have. A cheap mist-type coolant system helps a lot. Get some import 1-2-3 blocks for nine bucks.

[doorknob]

Shars on eBay is Discount Machine Shop items - Get great deals on BTCAT40 50ChuckPullStudFixture items on eBay Stores!

I put together a starter kit of my own because LMS was out of stock on theirs, and the LMS kit had some items in it that did not interest me (for example, the TiN coated endmills), and there were other items that I already had bought elsewhere. I got a good milling vise from Discount Machine on eBay, and took advantage of Enco coupons for a lot of other stuff.

You might want to take a look at the Tormach Tooling System for quick-change of cutting tools. I got that instead of a full set of R8 collets (but YMMV).

LMS has kits or individual components. For example, LittleMachineShop.com - Starter Set, Manual, Tormach Quick Change

[sansbury]

Personally, I used eBay a lot when I started out but I buy almost nothing there anymore except oddball stuff I can't find anywhere else. My advice to a newb would be DON'T BOTHER.

The prices are rarely much better (and often worse) and the suppliers are either the same ones you get anywhere else, or shade-tree operations that often deliver pretty bad service. Also, whatever you might make up on price you'll often lose on shipping since you end up buying what you need from three different sellers.

Here are the vendors I use semi-regularly and have had good experiences with:

Enco: Good general-purpose source of lower-cost supplies. Less selection and kind of funky website. Occasionally runs free shipping and 20% off deals that can be good.

MSC: Carries practically everything from medium to ultra-high quality tooling and supplies, priced to match. I use them a lot for things like drills and taps, you can get good US-made ones for reasonable prices and you can usually order quantities down to one. Their metalworking sale catalogs often have good deals on high-quality endmills and their lowest-cost shipping option often gets to me the next day.

Shars: Middle-of-the-road Chinese tooling supplier, good website, decent service, selection of products highly variable. Quality level still not domestic but has always been at least good-enough-for-price or better. Their measuring tools are not Starrett or Mitutoyo but fine for a beginner/home shop.

Wholesale Tool: Kind of like Enco, I use them mostly because they have a store local to me. Their website is also easier to deal with.

Regarding what Rewster said about his $4 endmills being better than his $25 ones, I would say "that depends." Endmills come in an amazing variety and it can be daunting for the beginner. My experience has been that the $4 Chinese specials are fine but wear out/chip a lot faster. That said, I recommend them for beginners since you will make a lot of mistakes. I still use them myself when running something new where I think there's a risk of crashing.

Generally speaking, a lot of the fancier stuff you find on endmills, whether variable helix geometry, coatings, etc., are mostly relevant to high-volume CNC production. It may offer no benefit or even work against you on a small and/or manual machine. Stick with ordinary HSS (aka "bright finish") tools or cobalt/M-42. Cobalt tools are a little harder than regular M2 HSS and cost a little more. HSS will cut everything including tool steel and will gobble up aluminum all day long. I find the $8-$15 mills I get from good suppliers like Morse, OSG, Putnam, Brubaker are much sharper and more durable than the Chinese ones.

Carbide is controversial on small machines and is probably something to save for when you have a little more experience and can judge what feels right.

Rewster's point about flute length is very true and important. The easiest way to make your setup more rigid is to use a shorter tool. "Stub length" mills and "screw machine" length drills can be very handy. If you don't need to mill a slot deeper than 1/4", you'll get a lot less chatter with a stub-length mill with 1/2" flute length than one with 3/4" or 1". That often means you can take a lot more depth of cut per pass and higher feed rates.

Last big thing is number of flutes. Generally speaking, if it's iron, steel, or brass you want 4 flutes, aluminum or anything softer 2 works fine. There are also 3-flute mills which I (and a lot of other people) like for aluminum as they can give a nicer finish.

The way I've bought tooling that has worked well for me is I started out with cheap Asian junk (like a $40 HF drill set) and as I break/wear out anything I replace it with good-quality domestic. So all the drills and mills I use frequently are now domestic. Good drill bits cost a $1-$5 bucks each so this makes for a painless upgrade. For those odd cases I need a P drill or a #23, I can get by fine with the cheapies.

Oh, and one other thing I'd recommend is a small fly cutter. These are used for surfacing AKA face-milling stock, such as to square up a block. They will take a relatively light depth of cut compared to an endmill but over a wide area. 1" width works well on my X2. They are the fastest way to remove a lot of material and can give a near-mirror finish if used properly. They use an HSS tool bit similar to a lathe so you will need a grinder.

[error404]

Hi!!

I'm new to this world, taking a beginning metalworking class at the local community college. Also bought a copy of Machine Shop Essentials by Marlow and I'm working through it.

I just bought a used HF 44991 X2 mini-mill. Shocking to see the coupon for $399

I'm sorry, but where can I find that coupon?


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[hoss2006]

I'm sorry, but where can I find that coupon?


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Right here.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...le_%24399.html
Hoss

[error404]

Right here.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...le_%24399.html
Hoss

Wow,
I'm placing an order tonight when I get home


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[crazybrit]

Wow,
I'm placing an order tonight when I get home


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Getting back to tooling. Lots of good replies here. Thanks!

As a beginner it's rather bewildering. The nice thing about the LMS kit is that it's one stop shopping. It seems the kit is good quality but what I don't understand is how much I could potentially save buying piecemeal without going way lower on quality? The LMS kit is $284 plus $37.76 shipping.

It seems that the parallels at 6" are too long and that a beginner would be better off with cheaper endmills. Other than this, it seemed that everything else in the kit was OK and generally useful to a newbie in the short-term. One option is to buy the LMS kit and just add shorter parallels and cheaper bits for initial learning.

Looking at the various sellers already mentioned, I see many different versions of each item thats in the LMS kit. As a beginner it's hard to know what features you want. Someone recommended a 4" toolmakers vise and shars.com. They have a $40 one and a $107 one. Discount Machine Shop has 8 different 4" milling vises. And so on for collets, endmills, 123 blocks etc.

I guess I was wondering if people had specific URLs/part#s that they would recommend to form a basic kit similar to the LMS but with the cheaper endmills and shorter parallels. Could you put together a kit similar to the LMS just from eBay/DiscountMachineShop? If so, what specific items would people recommend? I'd be happy to collect this info together and edit it into the first post so it could serve as a reference for others.

[hoss2006]

There already are pretty good tooling guides here.
Minii-mill Accessories

LittleMachineShop.com - Getting Started

Hoss