[Halfnutz]

Man, that would be awesome. I'll email you and talk tonight. I would really appreciate it, and who knows, maybe I could help you out somehow as well. All I need is to go through one complete cycle of draw,vector and convert, and I'll be off on my own.

Part of my problem is the lack of a CAM package. Ive used a few demo packages, but as of yet I still need to go buy something permanent. I do have TurboCad for drawing though

Great, look for my email and thanks for the offer. I wont turn it into a big deal, it may just require a single iteration of something simple.

(the above comments are the authors and do not represent the oppinions of CNCZone or its management.)

[Brian P.]

I have recently been given the opportunity to learn programming a cam system but still do some by hand. Depending on the control you have I find it can be as fast or faster than going into the office drawing,doing a tool path, and then posting and sending to the machine. For instance a circular pocket, G13 D# I# K# Q# F#. Its that fast at the machine. But again it depends on the control. We have two different types of machines 2 Haas and two Supermax w/Fanuc OM controls. What I would do on the Haas with copy and paste, G codes for bolt hole patterns and such I would not do on the Fanuc control because it is no where as user friendly.

[miljnor]

Very little is faster than a cam package if you know how to use it. If the program is 5-10 lines of code, then maybe.

I find that if you want to be proficient at something you have to throw yourself into it 100%. Sure those little programs might be faster than the cam but if you do everything with cam then you just get that much faster. Besides it can take a couple of years to get good enough at a system to be able to say "yes I can do that, no problem" with even the toughest parts (and actually back it up ).

Some of the features of all systems aren't documented anywhere and you can only find them by accident (doing something wrong) and finding out that it worked better than what you learned from the Tech guys or the book. Not to mention if you don't use all of the little widgets that come with your cam system you obviously won't be very good at doing them.

On the negative side of Cad/Cam: MACRO's are the most powerful program tool you can have in the G-code environment and Unfortunatly Cad/cam can even come close to emulating them. But since most Machine shops don't understand how to use macro's this is usually not a big deal since they wouldn't miss something they never used.

[Scott_bob]

Macro, did someone say macro?
Some good comments here... Like many, I have made the transition to cad/cam. Could not possibly be as productive without it. I also agree that sometimes it is quicker to program manually. Trigonometry skills must be practised or you get lazy and forget. Most shops have a few programmers that do the cad/cam work, and rely on set up personel to fill in the gaps and to do the shop floor editing that is inevitable. My experience is that these guys get lazy too, and rely on the programmer for even the simplest correction. This happens more often than not, unfortunately. Productivity is lost, fingers are pointed and the blame game goes on...

One thing I strongly believe is that what ever method of programming wether hand writen or cad/cam is that it be done on a PC. I mean, get away from standing at the control and punching in code by hand. Anyone who is doing this can dramatically improve their performance by getting a PC. Use one of the good editers that have a backplotting function and you'll be soo much better off.

Now for both groups!!!
Check out this thread:
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11136

Whatever method you use, cad/cam or handwriting, you can automate some of the stuff you do into a "software macro". This little program is not hard to learn and you can save yourself so much time. Maybe best of all you can demonstrate your creativity and computer skill in no time at all. The other day I taught my daugter to do her own macros for work, and she is off and running.

Try it you'll like it!

[Firebird0095]

From my experience, you have to have a solid base in hand coding in order to fully use a cam package. I do a lot of one off stuff, and it is usually very complicated 3D contours inside of molds. It is nice for me to use CAD(Solidworks) and then CAM(MasterCAM), because if something gets messed up it can be easily remade. The programs are slow, but since we never make more than one or two we never get to the point of optimising the program. Someone stated that CAM is nice "because it does not make mistakes" - although that is the idea with CAM, I have never seen it happen with MasterCAM. I usually get things that show up on parts that do not show in the backplot or the verify for the part. These can usually be polished out or fixed, but it is a headache. I have also had a tough time getting CAM to do 4th axis. Usually the programs are rediculously long and do not give the desired result. I end up using CAM for 3-axis, and then editing in the A moves. Any time I just need to drill a hole or square a block it is all hand coded. Also, as mentioned before, if you learn subroutines and macros your hand coding becomes much more powerful and the programs get much shorter and faster. I took a 400+ line hand coded program and with subroutines alone dropped it to less than 80. MasterCAM routinely spits out programs in the 20,000 line range and we have had a few over a million that take a week to run - that is when you fall in love with CAM. For beginners and hobbyists, programs like DeskCNC or Mach2 have a pretty good DXF to G-code CAM package and they are really cheap and easy to use. I use Mach2 for my homebuilt - they have a very very well written user manual that is available online, as well as demo software. --- But that is just my .02

M0

[bsharp]

Yes knowing the code is really good to know. But not all controllers are the same. Programming on a Mitsubishi is a little different than on a Fanuc as well as A CC220 to An Arco loop. IF you program for allot of different machines it gets confusing. I haven’t used Master Cam in a long time. I cant say I enjoyed the experience as much as a full CAD/CAM "Catia or Unigraphics". But software like that is expensive to say the least. I would guess that your post processor in Master Cam is to blame for the erroneous errors in the compiled blocks. Since it is not showing up in simulation. This may also have something to do with the 4th or 5th axis? It would also make for some very long code if it was not posting correctly.

[Johnmirra]

I have been writing about 400 programs/every year for last decade :tired: (all by hand), for fanuc and siemens. And I think Cam would be easier, but cycle times would be longer. :cheers:

[CNCRob]

Sometimes at work I do simple things by hand like move boring holes or move edge boring holes, but I have never done an entire part by hand, not even a simple square. I have thought about tring it sometime though.

[Geof]

Sometimes at work I do simple things by hand like move boring holes or move edge boring holes, but I have never done an entire part by hand, not even a simple square. I have thought about tring it sometime though.

You must be careful expressing thoughts like this here; you will give all the cam, cam, cam nothing but cam people conniptions and palpitations.

[bsharp]

I have recently been playing with Mach2 at home on a project I am working on. I like the MDI Macro part of it. It is sort of like a teach pendant for a robot. You can move the Machine around in MDI and then replay it. It works well for doing simple parts and building subs. I wish that more of the big name industrial controllers had this simple little feature.
At work we have an automated laser FMS. Every day when the work orders are released I download an excel sheet with all the part numbers and quantities I then convert it to a text file and run a script. The script starts the cam and nests all the parts on the correct material and generates a work cell schedule. The schedule is then input into the FMS controller and ran in the order that I prioritize it to. Every day it generates around 80 to 150 programs and around 320,000 to 600,000 lines of code. The FMS cell runs 24/7 non stop and unattended for 128 hrs during the week. It is down 8 hrs each month for maintenance and 10 hrs every 4 to 6 months for resonator and mirror maintenance. It also runs at 40% to 60% faster cut feed than bigger sister company running at stock settings. This would not be possible without a very good Cam system and programmer. We used to have a guy that worked for us that would spend hours nitpicking a program and saving 1 or 2 seconds off a cycle time. All to have engineering completely change the part a day later.

[BlueChip]

I've been reading this extremely long thread for quite a while ... seems like there are a lot of us who do both the CAD/CAM thing and the manual thing ... and after 25 years or so in machining I think, and it seems like most here would agree, that this is the best way to go. CAD/CAM for the complex and something simpler for the "everyday" stuff.

Using this approach ... about 3-4 years ago my company developed our Kipware software to assist in the simple stuff. If you' re of the thinking above ... I would invite you to explore our KipwareM and KipwareT software at www.KentechInc.com. Our belief is that CAD/CAM is great for the 3D and complex stuff, but those companies have left the "everyday" programmer wanting something easier, that requires less training so more people can create programs, and is faster for programming the everyday jobs of drilling, simple milling, simple turning, etc.

This post may be a little bit of a shameless plug ... but after 700+ installations worldwide, I really believe that we have developed a product that can assist some of the posters here ... both get more out of their CNC, their shop floor personnel, production and make more $$$$ faster.

Thanks for the opportunity to post and for the interest ( and thoughts? ).

[jl15]

I am just getting started at this, Building a CNC router for a college project. I guess I am a lazy student because I just bought TurboCad/Cam to generate the G-code.

[testfly]

I write code for simple parts. I am trying to learn to use my turbocadcam pro v 10.1.

I have been using it for my milling code. Now I am trying to learn to use it for turning.

The problem I have now is getting the part to cut to the size I want it.
I thought if I set my machine (a scratch built cnc conversion using a X Y table and a simple lathe) so 0 was in the center of the chuck the part would be the right size when done. As it turns out, 0 is on the other side of my part.

I know the problem must be I am not drawing the part right. I have attached a image of the part completed and as it was being cut.

Anyone care to offer me a little help drawing something simple. Once I can do something simple. I will take it from there.