[cncadmin]

OK start the ball rolling on a hardware store design CNC router.

[mikeschn]

Well, here we are in the hardware store design thread... Does that mean another black pipe design? Or is there a better option?

I'm not sure we want to go backwards to drawer slides...

And it'd be mighty difficult to do a conduit design like Ger21, cause we don't have a cnc machine to cut all the parts with.

Are we talking improved black pipe designs? Fixed gantry? Moving gantry?

Your thoughts...

Mike...

[greybeard]

Hi Milke,
As a newbie with no machinist knowledge but plenty of electronics and lab experience, I've been forced to use the local hardware as a major source of raw material.

For me small means a small workpiece, so it makes sense to move the work not the spindle. I'm heading for a 2.5D axis setup with the z axis movement of the workpiece coming from a separately controlled arm. But I would put the z axis movement on the fixed gantry if I needed to use the spindle in 3D.

As the only source of steppers at the moment is old printers or ebay(limited funds) the timing belts will give me my transmission.
I do have a supply of old display framing - aluminium extrusion - so I plan to use 19mm chrome steel tube ( wardrobe fitting dept) epoxyed into the channel. This will be bolted down onto an offcut slab of formica clad 38mm kitchen worktop.
I'm using miniature bearing from the scrap box augmented from ebay, but would try skate bearing otherwise.
Any thoughts?

[mikeschn]

Buying your hardware from ebay is definitely a good option.

As for using the components that you've gotten out of old printers, you'd have to include some photos and descriptions so that we could better understand what you have.

Mike...

Hi Milke,
I've been forced to use the local hardware as a major source of raw material.

As the only source of steppers at the moment is old printers or ebay(limited funds) the timing belts will give me my transmission.
Any thoughts?

[shedkid]

Mr Greybeard
How are you makeing out with the cnc ,what do you have in mind for controlling the said beast,myself i would like to convert this warco mill ,i've got the motors ,pc,psu all the gears and belts but not the interface or program disk (Compucut system) still when it gets a bit warmer and the workshop wont seem so far to go . ttfn BAZ

[cncadmin]

Drawslides work pretty good for the X and the Y. You can even you steel wire wrapped around a plastic wheels to move the gantry, like pulling a curtain.

[Dom]

I'm looking to build a machine using drawer runners. I've located a source with 450mm travel and minimal play in the bearings (heavy duty ball bearing runners).

I've got plenty of stepper motors now from 100oz in upwards and some toothed pulleys/timing belts.

Just need to build a workshop to house it all in before I can start building the machine.

[Jimmy Southern]

mikeschn,

Ger21's conduit design can be done without cnc If you have a good router and a laminate trimmer bit with a bearing. All you have to do is make a simple jig to hold the form that the bit follows & the work piece.

This reminds me of the Dave Gingery books. He talks at length about how some one had to build the first one. It's the old "which came first the chicken or the egg." In this case it is the egg because without the egg you can't make the chicken out of the hardware.

Also the draw guide system is not that bad. For a first time machine and a learning experience, I believe most beginners would be very pleased with the machine. I have read about many machines getting 1/32" accuracy from drawer guides. This is far more accurate than most cabinet shops could ever hope for.

I am a newbie my self and I do not have an unlimited budget to build with so I really hope that people will come to the cause with some new "cheap" ideas for the beginner.

Thanks so very much
Jimmy Southern

P.S. don't be afraid to throw out very crazy ideas, sometimes they work!! (group)

[mikeschn]

mikeschn,

Ger21's conduit design can be done without cnc If you have a good router and a laminate trimmer bit with a bearing. All you have to do is make a simple jig to hold the form that the bit follows & the work piece.

Doesn't the laminate trimmer force you to cut the entire 3/4" thickness at one pass? Can you cut that much plywood or mdf at one pass?

Maybe we should look at a pattern bit.

Mike...

[ger21]

Doesn't the laminate trimmer force you to cut the entire 3/4" thickness at one pass? Can you cut that much plywood or mdf at one pass?

Maybe we should look at a pattern bit.

Mike...

He said router and flush trimming bit, he just was a little unclear.

A faster, easier way if you have a table saw and drill press:

Use a sliding cutoff sled with a stop to cut all your parts the same length.
Use a fence on the drill press with stops to make the cutouts for the pipes. Use a forstner bit.

[RickM]

I confess to not reading all 40 pages...but I did make a dent.

Has anyone considered utilizing an old HP scanner for components? These things are built like a tank and I often see them free on Freecycle.org.

[Flap1]

I confess to not reading all 40 pages...but I did make a dent.

Has anyone considered utilizing an old HP scanner for components? These things are built like a tank and I often see them free on Freecycle.org.

...or even components from an old plotter? Bigger motors, rails, guides, longer travel. Multiple manufacturers of those things too. You should be able to find one or two being dumped by some local business.

[loud3803]

Doesn't the laminate trimmer force you to cut the entire 3/4" thickness at one pass? Can you cut that much plywood or mdf at one pass?

Maybe we should look at a pattern bit.

Mike...

It has been my experience when using a laminate trimmer to do routing work that you must take several unguided cuts untill you reach the template.

Louis

P.S. Congrats Colin on the new baby!

[ZipSnipe]

A few days ago I was thinking about my future build in which I was going to use grounded flat bar for the rails. I have never been a fan of the pipe designs until I was at my shop one day and I noticed I had a small section of old galvanized pipe(1/4" thick walls) and I was like maybe I could go with the pipe design and just use the lathe at work to precisely turn and polish it.

Now a few days later I was in Home Depot and I checked out their pipe which only had less than an 1/8" wall . I wanted the thicker wall so I can drill and tap the mounting holes. So while I was bummed out about that I remembered over in the electrical section they had those ground rods which are 5/8 solid steel galvanized for like $8 compared to $17 for the pipe. Just a thought .... of course its nice to have access to a nice lathe like we have at work.

[armyliferarmy]

Got Plans, Pictures etc....?

Thanks

[tmfcwp]

I built a panel saw years ago using hardware store aluminum extrusions, and roller blade bearings. You can buy a set of bearings at any sporting goods store pretty cheap.
I used galvinized conduit for the rails, and the bearings were fitted into self made 4 sided units. It was supprisingly accurate, and kinda of noisey but it worked well. I havn't used it since I got my first CNC machine but it is still there if I ever want it. Just a thought...

mikeschn,

Ger21's conduit design can be done without cnc If you have a good router and a laminate trimmer bit with a bearing. All you have to do is make a simple jig to hold the form that the bit follows & the work piece.

This reminds me of the Dave Gingery books. He talks at length about how some one had to build the first one. It's the old "which came first the chicken or the egg." In this case it is the egg because without the egg you can't make the chicken out of the hardware.

Also the draw guide system is not that bad. For a first time machine and a learning experience, I believe most beginners would be very pleased with the machine. I have read about many machines getting 1/32" accuracy from drawer guides. This is far more accurate than most cabinet shops could ever hope for.

I am a newbie my self and I do not have an unlimited budget to build with so I really hope that people will come to the cause with some new "cheap" ideas for the beginner.

Thanks so very much
Jimmy Southern

P.S. don't be afraid to throw out very crazy ideas, sometimes they work!! (group)

[achiestdragon]

hi
I am currently building a machine , mainly using MDF , but i guess the problem is some of the parts , like 20mm*20mm L section steel at 3mm thick that im using for the runners and supports and 20mm stainless steel bar for the bearing slides, are not available in most hardware shops , (but are available on the web ) and bearings are a problem also,

i thought about using unistrut , that is an excelant matirial for making the frame work , even if a tad expencive , but would require minimal machining
and m10 threaded bar for the lead screws

although i guess all the bits are not available from the big diy hardware stores here in the uk like B&Q and homebase ,but i have found that CEF(city electrical factors) in the uk (have shops in almost every major town) stock items like the treaded bar and unistrut and fittings

i designed my machine to use minimal machining as i only have access to a electric hand drill and the router that i am going to use as the cutting tool and hand tools like saw, file

sorry no pictures yet and its still a few months off compleation but looks like its going to be finished within the £400 budget i set for it and its got a workspace size of 900mm*500mm*100mm

i originally started with the same idea that i should be able to get all the parts from the local diy/hardware store but in the end found that way too restrictive on parts , threaded bar for example was not available , and local steel stock holders can supply steel some places will cut it to lenth also

i can only speak for what the uk hardware stores will stock , and not shure whats available in stores elsware things like good quality draw slides for example are not available

i need to solve a dfx export problem with my cad package (total cad ) to get the fonts right then i will post my design

Dave

[geoff p]

quick response to Dave (Archiestdragon): using 10mm (M10) threaded rod may well give you problems later. I began with it but as the nut-and-rod got 'run-in' the rod warped quite distinctly so it wanted to rotate in a wobble and this created a lot of extra friction = strain on the motors. I have since gone over to 5/8UNC threaded rod and this offers a huge improvement - the software can easily cope with the non-metric pitch.
Like you, I am building with only a hand-drill; I will post my write-up soon.

[rippersoft]

My first machine used a combination of drawer slides for the X axis gantry and ball bearings and gas pipe for the Y axis table. I like the drawer slides and am in the process of modifying the table to use slides.

The combo I have worked out is one heavy duty full extent slide mounted 180 degress around and on top of another slide. This means that the table will always have support and the travel is obviously doubled. This will be interesting to test.

[yukonho]

Having built a few machines now and used several different hardware store solutions for the slides, I would say that the number 1 consideration is rigidity.
This being said, the easiest way to make a rigid machine is to make a small machine. Drawer slides can work OK on a moving table if the travel is kept small enough. Drawer slides on the Z axis do not work well at all though, another solution is necessary there.
Also a moving table design with a fixed gantry will be far more rigid than a moving gantry design.
So, if I may suggest, lets work towards a small (8" X 12" travel??) fixed gantry moving table design.
Colin