[cncadmin]

Man I watching the news and can't believe all the damage and death. I can't believe how little this country has done for the victims as well.


To help-
http://www.nyredcross.org/

[Kookaburra]

Man,

I just logged on to CNN, they have really been hit hard. I'm sure George W will pull his finger out and do something here.

[HuFlungDung]

The destruction is shocking!

How did it happen that most of New Orleans got built below sea level? I can't imagine someone just coming up with the thought of throwing up a couple of flimsy dikes and pumping the water out from behind it. I imagine it must have evolved into what it became, from some small scale plan of some sort. Anyone know the history in a nutshell? A good link would do

[mvaughn]

This is what I once heard, I can't guarantee the accuracy...

If I recall New Oleans wasn't always below sea level. It is built on a flood plain of the Mississippi. It is a sinking piece of land, and the only thing that kept it above sea level was the periodic flooding of the Mississippi that deposited silt and soil. When the dikes were built, this natural land reclaimation ceased. In fact the silt that was deposited in the plains was partially deposited in the river bed and it raised the river too.

Over time the river inched higher, dikes were raised and the land sank....

[mvaughn]

http://www.time.com/time/reports/mis...i/orleans.html


.

[Aksess]

Strange on tv you never hear anyone asking for God's help they are only asking the goverment for help. This may be God's wrath on the sinful city. He said he would never destroy the earth with water again but he never said he wouldnt do part of it.

[cncadmin]

Strange on tv you never hear anyone asking for God's help they are only asking the goverment for help. This may be God's wrath on the sinful city. He said he would never destroy the earth with water again but he never said he wouldnt do part of it.

Doubt that, the Bible says time and unforeseen occurrence befalls us ALL. This is one of those occurrences.

[cbass]

When they showed a scene from the stadium with all the people sleeping on beds, I couldn't help but think that scene could have been from Iraq, or Kosovo, or a whole bunch of other places in the world...

If there is one positive thing that may result from this, its that people all over this country start to realize how lucky we are that these conditions are not normal (as the are in many other parts of the world). Maybe we will start to have compassion for people in the world who live like that EVERY DAY! Just trying to think positive.

Carlo

[Evodyne]

A few thoughts...

Katrina wasn't especially deadly other than for where she hit. Given that the prediction for the next few years is more hurricanes than normal, it seems likely that some might follow the same path.

I've already heard one government official question the logic in rebuilding New Orleans just because it would be a disaster waiting to happen-again. As callous as this sounds, it has a certain logic.

The response of our government is embarrasing. We mobilize on a huge scale for every third world country that has a natural disaster. Why would we do less for our own people? It's shameful.

The insurance companies still haven't settled claims for the big Florida hurricanes-houses still have no roofs, etc. Given that these companies are really about profit, their stalling and refusing to pay are tactics designed to keep money in their pockets. It would make sense that they will pull the same hijinxs here. In the meantime thousands suffer. Can't our government put some serious pressure on these white collar crooks?

The looting is a disgrace. These people are not doing something just to survive: they are committing wholesale rape of their own community. You see them ransacking jewely stores, walking of with twenty or thirty VCRs, etc. They even had a video off a uniformed cop carrying an armfull of stuff out of a store. What is wrong with these people? I think of how these pictures portray Americans to the rest of the world and I want to hide. SHOOT ON SIGHT.

The real heroes are the average Americans from all over the country who are pitching in to make a difference.

Evodyne

[murphy625]

Ok.. I was keeping quiet about it but you started me so hear goes..

First off, let me say that I have a massive amount of compassion for those who deserve my compassion.. But this post might make you think otherwise.

1) What moron builds a major city right next to a hurricane prone ocean and 12 feet below it??
2) What moron chooses to live there?

Ok.. those 2 can be debated and not really the point here.

1. People were told there is a monster of all monsters coming to kill you. You need to leave NOW NOW NOW.. Get out.. this is a huge category 5 hurricane and may produce storm surge of up to 30 feet or more!!!! Has anyone here heard of a storm with 215 mph winds?? HUH?? RUN FORREST RUN!!!!
2. The national weather service issued the strongest storm warning language in its history!!! Never before in their history did they ever issue such a strong warning using the words they used.
3. The mayor of the city declared "Mandatory Evacuation"
4. The President of the United States went on LIVE TV and said GET OUT NOW.
5. Authorities went door to door and told people to leave!!!!

Now, I realize there are people who did not have a tank full of gas to drive out of state.. They were told to go to designated shelters. (I have lots of compassion for those who are stuck in the super-dome there as they did what they were told to do) Lets get in their and save these people!!!

What kind of idiot do you have to be to stay in your home when a monster like this is coming to kill you? This just does not make sense... They had plenty of time to run away but no one wanted to. All you had to do is look at the weather channel.. The news media covered the event 24/7 all week long before it even hit!!!! Hello???? There's a strong hint there..

Ok. enough of the "Told you so" rant.. lets get to current events..
Here we have a life and death situation. Most of it is due to a lack of water. People can go a week without food. (most healthy people can), but water is a must have now. There is water everywhere!!!!!! You say its not drinkable? Make it drinkable... Make a fire, find a pot or pan and boil it... If the water is contaminated with oil or gas then you can distill the water.. Just put a lid on top of the pot or pan and lit the steam drip off.. How freaking hard is that? My wife and I do this every year when we go camping.. Every-time your wife cooks something on a stove you see the condensation on the lid of the pot or pan.. What the heck? Are these people completely ignorant or something? Someone explain this to me because obviously I must be missing something.. Am I to understand that the average person down there does not have the intelligence to perform such a basic life saving process??

The people at Wall Mart should be sued for criminal negligence for leaving behind guns and weapons when they knew that looting after a disaster is a normal thing. Looting food and water is one thing, but if I caught you walking out of a Wall-Mart with a flat screen TV, i'd shoot you myself and not lose any sleep over it.

The people who are sniping the rescue vehicles should be shot dead on site.

Man.. I am pissed off. Think of it this way. Pretend you have family down there.. Further, pretend they are poor and could not leave town so they followed instructions and walked to the super-dome for shelter and protection. Now, the super-dome as turned into a crap hole and those people need help. How do you feel knowing that your family is not getting the help they need because all resources are being spent trying to rescue morons on the roofs of their homes because they were to stupid to leave and seek adequate shelter? I would be PISSED OFF... Let them die.. Lets spend our resources on rescuing those who did what they were told to do.. Lets rescue the sick and elderly and children. Screw those morons on their roof tops.. You had your chance and you gave it up.
Ever hear of Darwinism ??? If you are going to put a gun to your own head and pull the trigger, dont expect compassion from me. I save mine for those who deserve it.

Do I sound upset?? LOL...

[Evodyne]

Oh Murph! I really bit my tongue and wrote a civil post. But inside I share your sentiments. Ranting? Nah, it's exasperation and honestly I'm glad you had the nads to speak up. There were people who would have left but said they stayed because they knew there stuff would be looted if they left. This is being told by the ones who lived-many who stayed for the same reason drowned. What does THAT say-that they knew in advance? Talk about "know thy neighbor"! To say anything beyond that would risk being flamed by the Politcally Correct faction, so I'll bite my tounge. For those down there that are true victims, the question is why? The national response could have been MUCH better. Where is the response planning FEMA? Where are your priorities, Mr. Bush? Ugh! Now I'm pissed off too! Well, more pissed off!:boxing:

Lance

[sbrpollock]

Murphy: I Agree 100 %

You have expressed my views almost perfectly!

Except for one little detail.....

What are they supposed to boil the water on? Those stoves under water are a real B!%CH to keep lit!

[murphy625]

Murphy: I Agree 100 %

You have expressed my views almost perfectly!

Except for one little detail.....

What are they supposed to boil the water on? Those stoves under water are a real B!%CH to keep lit!

There has to be pots and pans scattered all over the place.. All you need is a pot or pan from a kitchen.. There must be thousands of them all over the place..
As you are witnessing on TV, starting a fire should not be to hard.. It may take a bit of stick rubbing if no one has dry matches or something. By the 2nd or 3rd day, even a bic lighter would then dry out in that heat..

Find some wood or paper (dried out by the hot sun), start a fire, get it rolling good. (we all love camp fires right?) Put water into pot or pan (the larger the better), get it boiling and collect the steam coming off of it....

We are not talking about convenient or ice cold water here.. But, it will keep you alive!!!! and you wont get sick from any contamination.

Man, my wife and I go camping for weeks at a time every year.. (hunting season in october).. We are cold weather camping!! We survive just fine.. Now I realize that's not the same as down there, but the basic skills required to produce clean drinking water are.. We always camp next to a stream and we spend about 3 hours for each week there producing our own drinking water from that stream by boiling it and condensing. (Distilled water).. When you distill water, you can produce clean drinking water from a septic tank!!!

Darwinism on the march.... I feel sickened by the horrors but you can not deny the facts..

[JavaDog]

What about these people:

Help Us, AP!
Doctors at two desperately crippled public hospitals in New Orleans called The Associated Press Thursday morning pleading for rescue, saying they were nearly out of food and power and had been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters. "We have been trying to call the mayor's office, we have been trying to call the governor's office.... We are turning to you. Please help us," said Dr. Norman McSwain, chief of trauma surgery at Charity Hospital. No public resources are available for Charity, which has about 250 patients, or University Hospital, which has about 110 patients. Describing horrific conditions, McSwain said, "There is no food in Charity Hospital. They're eating fruit bowl punch and that's all they've got to eat. There's minimal water."
-- Associated Press

It also doesn't help that this administration has cut FEMA funding, and that a large percentage of the National Guard are currently mobilised in Iraq. Now, I am not one to blame Bush for a hurricane (as some of the wacky-liberals are doing) but these factors (poor decisions) have resulted in more people dying than should have. Makes me wonder, what if this had been a terrorist nuke/dirty-bomb attack and not hurricane? I mean, if we can't respond to a natural disaster (with warning) well, what hope to we have of responding to a large-scale terrorist action? Pretty scary if you think about it...

Disaster Mitigation Programs Slashed Since 2001. Since 2001, key federal disaster mitigation programs, developed over many years, have been slashed and tossed aside. FEMA’s Project Impact, a model mitigation program created by the Clinton administration, has been canceled outright. Federal funding of post-disaster mitigation efforts designed to protect people and property from the next disaster has been cut in half, and now communities across the country must compete for pre-disaster mitigation dollars. [Baltimore City Paper, 9/29/04]

[ViperTX]

Don't know if anyone is into country music...but Rodney Crowel just released a CD with a cut of "Don't me started!"

Yes, the people are suffering and the lawlessness that exists is sure hampering the rescue/evacuation efforts. I just don't care much for the "blame game"....the mayor(s) should be beating on the Governor and the Gov should be hitting on their Congressional people who would then deal with their peers and the President.

Personally, declare it a disaster area, declare Martial Law, and give the military the power to take out the non-law abiders as required so the rescuers can proceed with their jobs unabated.

[HuFlungDung]

Mvaughn, thanks for the info. I knew there had to be an explanation.

So its similar to the Japanese manmade airport island that is slowly sinking into the sea bottom: an inevitable disaster just waiting for a trigger event.

[Rekd]

Murphy, great post.

Java...

What about these people:

...

It's hard to help people when you've got idiots shooting at those trying to help.

As for slow help, I kind of agree, BUT, ask yourself: What time frame would have been acceptable for all of the following to occur
-probable disaster announced
-people told to evacuate
- during disaster, everyone basically waiting until hurricane passes
-search and rescue started by 2000 people
-martial law declared, "you have no civil rights, get out"
-hospital ships ordered into area, couple days at least to get there
-looters and criminals shoot at S&R people, they retreat
-Governor told forces inadequate
-asks for national help, feds approve it
-communicate with National Guard
-National Guard figures who to send
- contacts local guards
-local guards given 1 day to wrap things up notify people, pack etc
-troopsa assemble and drive 18-20
-troops arrive in NO

[fyffe555]

Sidestepping the comments on the disaster itself ( I agree with those posting) the problem of producing potable water isn't as easy as it first appears;

The water in the flood is Salt sea water, contaminated, not rain or fresh, as related. you'd have to distill it. The 'managers' have shut off most of the municipal water.

The energy to boil/distill enough water to drink is a lot more than it might appear. In the heat of NO, say 90f, then the recommended daily water intake is approx one oz per pound body weight. For an average person that's 170oz or about 11.5 lbs to keep the number easy. That's 11.5lbs per person daily. To boil 11.5lbs water from 90f takes about 1400 btu's, One lb pine burned at 50% efficiency is about 1800 btus. So lets say thats one lb burnable wood required to produce one persons water for one day.

The 25,000 people in the Arena alone would need around 12 tons dry burnable wood daily just to produce water.

Alternatively getting someone with the smarts to drive in 5 tanker trucks of fresh would do it.....

[murphy625]

Sidestepping the comments on the disaster itself ( I agree with those posting) the problem of producing potable water isn't as easy as it first appears;

The water in the flood is Salt sea water, contaminated, not rain or fresh, as related. you'd have to distill it. The 'managers' have shut off most of the municipal water.

The energy to boil/distill enough water to drink is a lot more than it might appear. In the heat of NO, say 90f, then the recommended daily water intake is approx one oz per pound body weight. For an average person that's 170oz or about 11.5 lbs to keep the number easy. That's 11.5lbs per person daily. To boil 11.5lbs water from 90f takes about 1400 btu's, One lb pine burned at 50% efficiency is about 1800 btus. So lets say thats one lb burnable wood required to produce one persons water for one day.

The 25,000 people in the Arena alone would need around 12 tons dry burnable wood daily just to produce water.

Alternatively getting someone with the smarts to drive in 5 tanker trucks of fresh would do it.....

You are absolutely correct.. It is not easy.. But, there is plenty of burnables laying around there now, and in the complete absence of anyone giving you drinking water, its the best option there is.
Also, the "intake requirements" you quote are for ideal conditions. Some water is better than none at all!!!
If you are there and no one is bringing you fresh clean water to drink, you are certainly not going to care about all that math.. Just start making it.. If everyone starts to save themselves, and maybe one or 2 other people, the problem would not be so bad.

Its just my opinion that doing something is better than waiting and doing nothing. When you distill water, you can make fresh clean drinking water from anything that is liquid.. It may not be fast but it will keep you alive and it will do it safely. (that is so long as no one shoots you to steal your water)

That's just the survivalist in me..

[Kookaburra]

It is hard to speak of this given that I live on the other side of the world. It seems like you guy's have a lot of headaches to get through over the coming months. I can't help but agree with you all if I imagine the same thing happening to Australia.