[Mountaincraft]

I get this black gummy buildup on the bearings and the CRS rails.. I'm not sure what it is, but it appeared immediately when I started manually running the bearing carriages back and forth on the rails... So I think it's some sort of dirt inherent top the manufacture and shipping of the rails themselves..

As I clean it, it seems to take longer to appear.. but still does..

a) what is it?

b) is there a 'cleaner' I can wipe or spray on the bearings and rails to remove it? Some of the bearings (and even a section of rail) is hard to get to clean... So something that I could 'spray' on them, that would dissolve this black gunk, and then dissolve after I wiped them would be the hot ticket, if such exists.. I was tempted to use WD40 or goof off, but I thought it better I ask first... better dumb questions, than dumber mistakes...

Thanks,
Mark

[Treischl]

Yup, it came with the CRS rails.

What I would NOT do is spray Goof Off on the bearings themselves.

That said, I used Goof Off on my rails to get the black gunk off the CRS. I believe it is a preservative used to keep the CRS from rusting while in storage. I do not oil my steel surface to prevent rust because that will hold dust which causes other problems.

Instead, I wax my steel surfaces in the shop which helps prevent rust. I use a paste wax, wipe it on, let it dry and then buff it off, just like a car.

There are other products available for use in the shop.

You definitely want to get the blank gunk off the rails. My new machine started doing the exact same thing the minute I started moving it.

[Mountaincraft]

I'm going to have to use a swab to get to to some of the bearings to clean them, which means I'll need some sort of cleaner because I will not be able to apply much rubbing force...

What should I use as a cleaner on the bearing surfaces?

[CarveOne]

Try regular paint thinner. It seems to liquify most greasy stuff from metals and it wipes off easily. Lighter fluid is good at removing dried masking tape glue, so try that also.

CarveOne

[DonFrambach]

After you clean the protectant off, the metal can rust. I have been using Boeshield T-9 to prevent rusting which seems to work well. Here's a link: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/T-9-Rust-Protectant-Ounce-Spray/dp/B001447PEK"]Amazon.com: T-9 Rust Protectant, 12 Ounce Spray: Home Improvement[/ame]

[yanjue]

Try with brake cleaner, and add light oil to prevent rust.

[Treischl]

Putting oil on your ways is a good way to make sure the dust sticks right there and your bearings ride over it. Wax, Boeshield and some other products work well.

[Mountaincraft]

Putting oil on your ways is a good way to make sure the dust sticks right there and your bearings ride over it. Wax, Boeshield and some other products work well.

Yeah, that didn't sound like a good idea...

That T-9 protectant is an interesting product... I'm gonna look and see if I have any car wax out in the shop.. (I haven't waxed a car in a long time.. pointless on my work van here in the mountains...)

[Mountaincraft]

Try regular paint thinner. It seems to liquify most greasy stuff from metals and it wipes off easily. Lighter fluid is good at removing dried masking tape glue, so try that also.

CarveOne

Paint thinner I have!
:cheers:

[CarveOne]

Paint thinner I have!
:cheers:

That's why I recommended trying these two. Many people already have these close by. I haven't smoked since 1967 but I keep lighter fluid around as a useful solvent. I recently used paint thinner to cut black moly grease coated aluminum tubing and it worked pretty well so there's a good chance it will cut the build-up on your bearings. It will also flush out the grease in the bearings if you are not careful. Use the Q-Tips.

CarveOne

[hazardouschurch]

A)It is traces of grase and oil from the bearings and fine dust that mix into a paste. Same as a bike chain or a car engine around the seams where the oil sometimes leaks.
B) You should try acetone get it in the big jug. It works on anything just dont get it on any plastic. It is expensive but worth it it dissolves way faster than paint thinner.then you dont even need to wipe the surfaces it will probably just dissolve off without any agitation within reason. For plastic parts try denatured alcohol works slower but also safe on anything!!!. the alcohol will require agitation to work though. Either way get a metal sprayer that you can fill and charge with an air compresser. Try not to get on bearings as it will eat the lubricant out of the bearings just spray one side then the other. Or you can protect your bearings a paper towel or rag then remove once you are done spraying. Google rechargeable sprayer for that any brand will do you shouldn't need anything special unless you want to shell out the extra money. As for something to keep off the dirt and grime dont use t-9 or wd-40 they both have some oil in it. You should try something like Teflon( Ptfe),also hydrophobic, or silicon dry lubricants you can also get it in the big size depending on how much or often you are using it. These lubricants use a solvent to apply them and when the solvent evaporates it leaves the lubricant. This is important because it means you can apply a new layer each time you clean the machine. Take it from a mountain biker and circle track racer that uses lube and hates oil for metal parts.
Hazardouschurch

[Mountaincraft]

A)It is traces of grase and oil from the bearings and fine dust that mix into a paste. Same as a bike chain or a car engine around the seams where the oil sometimes leaks.

That makes sense, as I cleaned the CRS with acetone before I started cutting and drilling it, and again after I did all that.. and then wiped everything down (rubbing hard), yet here it is again.. but only on 'some' of the bearings..

So I was wondering if I 'missed' some areas...

So I guess this will be a 'regular' thing..

Do they make completely sealed skate bearings that don't leak oil?

[hazardouschurch]

Yes this is a regular thing i would do it either everyday if you are doing production work or ever week depending on how much you run your machine. I would clean mine more because of preventative maintenance like every 10 running hours if it is really dirty or 20 if not. Its up to you want how much you want to spend on solvents i like acetone. Like i said try teflon of silicon as they repel dirt and water. but before application clean like crazy after that the grime will sit on top of the lubricant and will make super easy to clean. you can ge tit at the hardware shop inspray cans or in the mega jug depending on how much you need. You could have missed some areas... it all depends " i would have to be there to tell you." they really dont make truly sealed bearing the tem sealed in bearings means that dirt and grime will not easily get in the bearings not out. they tend to overpack the bearings with grease so the leak but will eventually stop hopefully. I would try to clean really well and apply a good amount of teflon personally and then just do it scheduled maintenance. I prefer teflon over silicon because it is truly hydrophobic and it tends to last a bit longer. however it it less common and sometimes harder to get.
Hazardouschurch

[Mountaincraft]

My 'hope' is that this will one day become a production machine...

So I guess I better start developing some good 'habits'...

What about some of the 'wax' suggestions.. ie carnuba wax, etc?...

Is the teflon/silicone theory better than the wax theory? Or is it more of a personal preference? Pros/Cons?

[hazardouschurch]

I cant tell you much about wax but i would imagine if it was applied with heat to the metal surfaces it woud be alright just har to remove when it is time to clean. If it is just a spray on or rub on i think it would tend to rub off and make more grime. that being said i am making assumptions on my basic knowledge of molecular physics. for the teflon it has a sits on top but will not flak or chip it tends to have a very thin layer and is usually applied evenly over the surface because of the solvents it allows it to permeate into the surface of the metal the same with the silicon. The teflon has a higher temperature rating of about 500 to 600 degrees fahrenheit. silicon is up to about 500 degrees fahrenheit. I know you are building a dual purpose machine so thats important, the wax is dependent on the brand but definitely lower than silicon or teflon. The wax will be harder to clean off and will take a lot of rubbing with solvents to remove it. The teflon and silicon are easily removed with acetone. I feel it take longer to apply wax than teflon or silicon. choosing between silicon and teflon is your choice but i really prefer teflon because it is hydrophobic and has a higher temperature rating. Both silicon and teflon will hold up to sparks because they are only really hot for a couple of seconds. What ever you use its up to you and how well it works for you. I would buy a can of (ptfe) or teflon same thing ptfe is the generic name and try it ans see how it works. I would buy the big jug of acetone because i use it a lot and it is the best for cleaning metals. But try before you buy see what works for you. i have not extensively used wax but use a lot of acetone silicon and teflon because they work.
Hazardouschurch

ps how do the 80/20 rails work for you? i was thinking of using them for my first machine. lateral stiffness? do you recommend them?

[Mountaincraft]

I cant tell you much about wax but i would imagine if it was applied with heat to the metal surfaces it woud be alright just har to remove when it is time to clean. If it is just a spray on or rub on i think it would tend to rub off and make more grime. that being said i am making assumptions on my basic knowledge of molecular physics. for the teflon it has a sits on top but will not flak or chip it tends to have a very thin layer and is usually applied evenly over the surface because of the solvents it allows it to permeate into the surface of the metal the same with the silicon. The teflon has a higher temperature rating of about 500 to 600 degrees fahrenheit. silicon is up to about 500 degrees fahrenheit. I know you are building a dual purpose machine so thats important, the wax is dependent on the brand but definitely lower than silicon or teflon. The wax will be harder to clean off and will take a lot of rubbing with solvents to remove it. The teflon and silicon are easily removed with acetone. I feel it take longer to apply wax than teflon or silicon. choosing between silicon and teflon is your choice but i really prefer teflon because it is hydrophobic and has a higher temperature rating. Both silicon and teflon will hold up to sparks because they are only really hot for a couple of seconds. What ever you use its up to you and how well it works for you. I would buy a can of (ptfe) or teflon same thing ptfe is the generic name and try it ans see how it works. I would buy the big jug of acetone because i use it a lot and it is the best for cleaning metals. But try before you buy see what works for you. i have not extensively used wax but use a lot of acetone silicon and teflon because they work.
Hazardouschurch

ps how do the 80/20 rails work for you? i was thinking of using them for my first machine. lateral stiffness? do you recommend them?

I picked up a couple products today in town.. GDL Garage Door Lube.. Says it's a silicone based product with petroleum based solvents that evaporate... I also picked up a can of Dupont Teflon Silicone Lubricant that also has petroleum solvents that evaporate...

Also picked up some lithium grease for something else...

The 8020 rails seem to be very true, and sure make life easy for attachment... No drilling and tapping.. Just slide the heads of 5/16" carriage bolts into the channels and put a nut on the other side of whatever is being attached to it..

I haven't been able to test or measure things like backlash or run out or whatever yet... don't yet have the know how or measurement tools.. But I will do that when I rebuild it with the steel base...

I can say this, they are definitely stronger and truer than the wood structure they are attached to.. LOL

I kind of take the cut rates and jog speeds easy for now because wood with screws can flex... Not to mention that the whole thing is currently sitting on wheels...

But when I rebuild it later this year... I plan to really pay attention to detail getting everything dialed in, square, flat, parallel and true... Even thinking about having the two steel rail supports milled flat to each other after it's all welded together if it's not too expensive......

[hazardouschurch]

The garage door lube is probably a wet silicon lube and probably has some traces of oil, a dry would work better but eh! whatever works for you i have never used the wet type. The grease is probably too thick but you could always try. All you really need is some clamps and a dial caliper and clamp the dial caliper in a the base or a stand of some sort that wont move when you move the machine. then lossen the tension screw on the dial caliper so it moves freely and is level. Take the beging and end, subtract thats the number you want. Thats how you measure all of them just have to think and use math thats all.
Hazardouschurch

[Mountaincraft]

The grease is for my truck doors.. LOL...

It says the solvents evaporate.. I thought that's what you were talking about?..

I also got the dupont stuff.. which is what I'm kinda planning on using.. that or the wax...

The garage door lube someone else recommended.. but I primarily bought because my garage door needs lubing.. and so does a customers..

On the dupont can it says Plastic, metal, wood, and leather.. O ring safe...

Safe for all surfaces.. NSF H-2 Listed..

"Dupont Silicone with teflon fluoropolymer is extremely versatile.. Waterproofs, protects, and lubricates rubber, plastic, metal, wood, and leather, from -40F to +400F. Quickly eliminates mechanical squeaking and binding. Helps prevent snow sticking and rusting..."

I'm also looking for that carnuba wax out in the garage and shop.. I found turtle wax, and armorall so far.. but I know I have some paste wax around here somewhere...

[CarveOne]

I mostly use the pure carnuba wax and it will build up on the bearings. This is not car polish with carnuba in it. It looks like soft beeswax. I've just been cleaning it off the bearings with a fingernail. I'll test the Q-Tip and paint thinner method on it this morning. Carnuba wax is good for all bare aluminum and cast steel shop equipment to minimize rust and help wood slide on it better. Table saws, jointers, spindle sanders, etc.

CarveOne

[CarveOne]

The paint thinner readily softens the waxy build-up on my bearings and spreads it around. The clean end of the Q-Tip then picks it all up, leaving shiny new bearing surfaces.

CarveOne