[Walky]

First off, has anyone though of an ATC that's actually a router changer?. I mean, instead of changing bits or having two routers/spindles on the axis at the same time, to just have some way to change between 2 or 3 routers (might be identical, might be not), for cases when you won't need any more tools (roughing and finishing, for example). Maybe it could be done by using a variety. home-made spindles (like those compact spindes some people have done on a lathe). The router mount/holder would firmly attach each router at tool change, or maybe just scrap that and add a router carrousel!

The second idea is something an uncle came out with when I was talking with him about how to sound isolate my machine. He said, most certainly joking: "Why don't you suround it with vacuum walls?".
Imagine a 2x2x2 mts room which walls, floor and ceiling have, say, 5 or 10mm vacuum-empty space between layers, and just a few posts (of carefully choiced material) to hold the inner room walls (no "flying rooms" here), a door mechanism, and holes for wires to go through. Has anyone actually considered such an extreme approach for their DIY machines?.

I'm not considering doing any of the above projects; it's just something that I wanted to share with you and know what you think about it. I'm pretty sure one or both of those ideas must have been approached somehow, somewhere by someone, DIY or not; maybe someone on the Zone has info about it?

[Stewey]

Sound might not travel through a vacuum, but in this case the inside and outside will be connected, and I'd reckon the vibrations due to the sound would get transferred from inside to outside walls-I may be wrong.

Then there's the cost!

[Stewey]

Sound might not travel through a vacuum, but in this case the inside and outside will be connected, and I'd reckon the vibrations due to the sound would get transferred from inside to outside walls-I may be wrong.

Then there's the cost!

[RomanLini]

Walky, I'd really like dual spindles on dual independent Z axes. Most of my jobs only need 2 tools, generally cutting/chamfering or cutting/engraving etc. So with 2 spindles I could just have them each with the right tool and it would be almost as good as an ATC... well actually better than an ATC for jobs that only need 2 tools as it would be quicker.

I'd trash the vacuum wall idea. To get walls to withstand a vacuum and not crush in they need to be reinforced with a lot of strong hard internal struts, which will transfer much more sound than air. There's lots of really good sound insulating sheets you can get...

[Treischl]

If you want to sound insulate a room, just read up on what they do for home theaters. No need for vacuum walls.

In a nutshell, what happens is that the sound waves impact the inside walls, which then vibrate the studs, which then vibrate the outer walls (which cause the outer walls to act like a drum head or speaker). What they do is place a cushion between the mechanical members that prevents the walls from transmitting the vibrations. They also fill the void between the walls with sound absorbing material.

Anyway, I would like some of what your uncle was drinking.

[rowbare]

Long ago I saw video of a chinese router that had 4 spindles mounted on a carousel on the Z axis. Looking at the Z axis there were spindles at Noon, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock. It would simply raise the Z rotate to the next spindle and carry on. It looked like a pretty elegant solution though I imagine the electronics might be fun.

If the spindles are all identical, I imagine one could use a single VFD when switching between them. If using routers, one could simply set them to the appropriate speeds and use relays to activate them. A microswitch on the carousel could enable the appropriate relay.

bob

[Walky]

Long ago I saw video of a chinese router that had 4 spindles mounted on a carousel on the Z axis. Looking at the Z axis there were spindles at Noon, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock. It would simply raise the Z rotate to the next spindle and carry on. It looked like a pretty elegant solution though I imagine the electronics might be fun.

That's exactly what I'm talking about, a system that changes spindles without the need to have all of them mounted at the same time on the axis (eating valuable axis space). The carrousel ideal would look very cool, too!

If the spindles are all identical, I imagine one could use a single VFD when switching between them. If using routers, one could simply set them to the appropriate speeds and use relays to activate them. A microswitch on the carousel could enable the appropriate relay.

bob

That gave me an idea: what about having only one fixed router/motor with a pulley, and then a automatic belt-pulley-spindle contraption that changes which spindle is the motor connected too? Imagine a carrousel of short spindles that justo go into the right posicion and engage the belt when needed. With some creativity it could even be adapted for multiple spindle speeds depending on the tool (e.g. having a different pulley ratio for a "finishing" spindle with a very small bit which needs faster rpms).

Roman has a point about the walls crashing; maybe a not-so-strong vacuum could be used?. I insist I'm not interested in this as a do-to project, but it seems like a very interesting topic to talk about. The spindle changer, on the other hand, is slowly starting to look like an interesting project, just not for this time: too expensive, time consuming, not absolutelly needed, and I'd rather wait until I get a lathe and some experience with it, and build some test DIY spindles; oh, and there are so many projects I've had on hold for years which are higher on my priority list (that throttle quadrant just isn't going to build itself!), I might as well build a time-stopping device to make time for everything (controllable with Mach3, of course... hehe).

[Walky]

Walky, I'd really like dual spindles on dual independent Z axes. Most of my jobs only need 2 tools, generally cutting/chamfering or cutting/engraving etc. So with 2 spindles I could just have them each with the right tool and it would be almost as good as an ATC... well actually better than an ATC for jobs that only need 2 tools as it would be quicker.

Double Mach3 selectable outputs!, there you go, yet another feature for your next SuperPID

[TarHeelTom]

Saw recently a video ad for a commercial gantry router, but don't remember the name of it. It had one fixed router in the middle, and one router on either side. The two side routers each had an aux Z axis screw of some sort to either move it down below the center router, or move it up into the park position. Of course, main Z movement was by moving the gantry up and down, which moved all three routers up and down at the same time.

Their commercial pitch was that they'd interviewed a large number of router users, and found that the vast majority of router jobs can be completed with only two or three bits, so a larger number of routers or bits on a carousel just is almost never necessary.

Tom

[PaulRowntree]

Roman has a point about the walls crashing; maybe a not-so-strong vacuum could be used?.

Unfortunately, sound conduction through the residual air is proportional to the density (pressure) of the gas, so if the vacuum is only half as good, so is the acoustic isolation. And half as good would still need massive structures to prevent collapse.

Foam is cheap. Even better would be those cool pyramid foam structures that are used in anechoic chambers. They are big, but they kill sound to an amazing degree. Walking into these chambers is eerie because of the complete absence of reflected sounds that normally serve to orient us.
Cheers!