[koosjr]

I am very new to CNC machining. My first exposure to CNC was with a plasma cutter, but I had to use it too far in between to call it any serious experience. However, I got my own CNC hobby router 2 1/2 weeks ago and now I can play my heart out.


Before getting the router, I did a lot of reading up on the subject of software but I was a on my own since there are not many people in my town with CNC experience. I downloaded a couple of CAM packages - mostly things that could offer me 3D modelling. The only 2 packages I found that I could at least make a start with the 3D modelling, was Alibre Design and BOBCAD.

Shortly after that I got a call from BOBCAD and they are great with sales, so I bought BOBCAD with 2 licenses only to find out later that nesting is another add-on. I do need nesting and had to buy that again and all together, it became a fairly costly exercise.

In my case, I do all my 2D drawings in another CAD and I only use BOBCAD for generating G-Code. First of all, BOBCAD does not import a DXF file in the correct units. My DXF files are in metric but with BOBCAD adjusted to metric, it by default assumes the file that is imported, is in inches and then it applies the 25.4 conversion factor. So much for keeping to well documented DXF standards. So now I have to use BOBCAD in Imperial mode and import my files in order not ot have the conversion applied, which means when generating G-code the default BOBCAD values for all the little parameters have to be edited manually each time, which is a little time consuming.

Nesting however, in some ways works OK compared to other nesting packages I used although it is very slow with calculations.

As a summary, my opinions of BOBCAD.

Pros:

1. For a commercial package, it is fairly affordable, but not close to cheap.
2. Nesting works reasonably well
3. I found the 3D modelling a bit more accommodating in BOBCAD compared to other packages.
4. Sales oaks are enthusiastic.
5. They do have many post processors and it is pretty easy to get a machine running on that.

Cons:

1. Without nesting, BOBCAD is a pretty dumb tool to generate toolpaths, but on the other hand, that is a good thing to learn a newbie how to think through the machining process.
2. V24 has one or two way too obvious bugs to be considered acceptable for a commercial package. If they would fix that with the same enthusiasm as making sales, that would be a good start.
3. After sales support is slow and it i hard to convince them that something is a bug and not your own stupidity.


Overall, I would say that BOBCAD could be considered a good "training package" for new CNC users - analogue to training aircraft. It has enough features to get one one long way but that is it.

From my experience in many other fields, once one start to really dig into the theory of the subject, one soon have to wipe the eye candy from the table and get to know the raw backbone. Once you are there, it is very difficult to go back to they eye candy as it often becomes a hurdle to work through.

I doubt that I will see a next version of BOBCAD on my table and I will not be surprised if I soon end up with more raw packages where I have more deliberate control and understanding of the output.

[dwood]

quote

3. I found the 3D modelling a bit more accommodating in BOBCAD compared to other packages.


i have never read a statement like this about bobcads drawing tools

ask some questions here and maybe someone may can help you work
through them

[koosjr]

It certainly depends on what you compare it with. I have yet to find a 3D modelling package that makes it really easy to create shapes.

As said, for 2D I don't even bother with BOBCAD.

This is what I use:

Qcad from RibbonSoft

It served me well for many years now and is simply the easiest and quickest 2D package I ever used. However, we are waiting for Version 3 for a looooong time now. It is not a highly commercial package.

[active-precision]

.. i think one couldn't summarize the experience with BobCad better than koosjr.

It simply is a prime example of brilliant sales tactics promoting something incredibly below average.

Recently i read an article about a guy who built a replica of Bugatti Veyron using a Mercury Cougar body.
I feel that is exactly what i got.

After years of ongoing relationship with BobCad ( starting with v 17 all the way through v23 when i finally said enough is enough) and most likely close to $ 5,000.00 in investment, i still can't open a simple drawing created IN BOBCAD few minutes earlier.

Please don't tell me it is Microsoft Window's 7 issue.

Shame on you BobCad... and shame on your customer relations practices.

[Sowen]

ap-machine

"i still can't open a simple drawing created IN BOBCAD few minutes earlier."

I apologize you feel so upset by "customer relations practices".

I'm sure we can fix this for you if you care to.

If this was an issue with the software, no one would be able to use it ever. So lets assume this a fixable issue.


This does not occur on my computer, I unfortunately would like to assume this a windows or hardware issue. But this could be something else.

We can look at it and work with you to fix the problem and would be more than happy to.

If this happens to you I'm sure we can solve the problem, please call me directly and we can review the problem in depth.


Sean Owen
727-489-0003
You can also PM me or email me [email protected]

[active-precision]

ap-machine

"i still can't open a simple drawing created IN BOBCAD few minutes earlier."

I apologize you feel so upset by "customer relations practices".

Sean,

The attempts have been made by BobCad to resolve it in the past.
While I have to admit that I did misstate the details slightly - after all the problem appeared after installing Win 7 - the fact is that after those attempts I felt that the only solution BobCad was able to offer is for me to upgrade to the new version.
In our experience, every new release we purchased - while certainly improved in the "user interface" aspect - did not deliver what was promised.

Peter

[Sowen]

If the only thing that would fix the issue is to upgrade you, I can assure you we will handle that free of charge.

If you would like to resolve the issue I would be happy to help.

[active-precision]

If the only thing that would fix the issue is to upgrade you, I can assure you we will handle that free of charge.

If you would like to resolve the issue I would be happy to help.

I absolutely would love to resolve the issue and will be calling you tomorrow.

Peter

[Sowen]

Great ! Make sure you ask for Sean, and let reception know that I am expecting your call.
727-489-0003

[jrmach]

"i still can't open a simple drawing created IN BOBCAD few minutes earlier."



Just an observation,you only have twenty or so posts on the forum.If this is what you been doing for all those versions you have owned,and it sucks,you need to reach out a little more.People here can help.

[active-precision]

"i still can't open a simple drawing created IN BOBCAD few minutes earlier."



Just an observation,you only have twenty or so posts on the forum.If this is what you been doing for all those versions you have owned,and it sucks,you need to reach out a little more.People here can help.

You are correct JR, i should.
Perhaps CAD / CAM isn't sufficiently important for our operation,
Perhaps that is why I went with the budget software,
Perhaps my limited notes here will help those who really relay on the CAD / CAM to make their decision,

BobCad appears to be an option for startups / beginers - its just that in my experience the old versions worked well and then it all went down hill when i was sold on the idea of upgrades for this reason or another.
I belive their developement team bit more than they could handle.
Without specifics and going through history - i remember key features (milling) we were sold on ( and purchased the upgrades for) not working as advertised.

We are a job shob, and don't required complex profiling.
We still - to this day - use a very very old version of MasterCam to generate profiles, while use bobcad to draw / make sketches.

But ....... you might be correct - perhaps I should've reached out more to the forum - instead - i got angry at BobCad since - after all - we purchased extended support . :-)

[koosjr]

Jip,

And Months after I bought my V24, we are still only on update 208 - the same I have.

I thought they would fix have fixed a few bugs by now.

[Sowen]

Jip,

And Months after I bought my V24, we are still only on update 208 - the same I have.

I thought they would fix have fixed a few bugs by now.

Updates are released periodically. There will be another update to BobCAD V24. It will should be released in about a month or so. There have been 5 updates to BobCAD V24, That's been 5 updates over the past 8 months. There is another one coming soon.

Please attach two files here one that is inch and one that is metric that do not import properly so I may take a look.

[koosjr]

Sowen,

Thanks for the offer, but I honestly don't know if I have the strength to work through another session of BOBCAD after sales support.

I pushed those queries through the customer support a long time ago.

If I have it correctly, it was done on ticket number BS00037898.

The experience dealing with BobCAD after sales service, left me rather frustrated. The sales support clearly did not read my punctual e-mails, your server on more than one occasion dropped the file attachments from the mail and I was asked repeatedly to resend (especially with the last query) until I finally gave up.

I also had issues when I bought the nesting package extra. I was quoted an amount and that included a special of sending me two training DVD sets. When my credit card was swiped, I found the price suddenly increased by 25% because your Mr. Danny Netto made a sloppy quote by not adding transport. Then I waited and waited and TWO WEEKS later I suddenly got a mail asking for my postal address because apparently you did not had the correct one. TWO WEEKS!!! And I paid $ 175 for fast shipping.

To summarise:

1. Danny Netto made a sloppy quote.
2. He then simply billed me extra for the transport without another word.
3. Then you guys was not happy with my postal address and took TWO WEEKS before asking for another one. The actual shipping was done in days.
4. When I mailed Dan about it, he did not even replied my mails.
5. Mike Dulski later called me and said Dan will contact me to apologise. That never happened. But my address was in your hands now and the package was shipped within a few days.
6. I got my package with only DVD set.
7. Called Mike again, and at least this time, he was quick to admit it and send the other set.

Once again: Your sales team, is really great. Now forgive me for asking why the rest cannot be on that level.

However, here are the two files attached, with a little rework from my email send to BOBCAD support.

The file "test.dxf" is a simple 10x10mm rectangle.
The file "BOBCAD Toolpath problem.dxf" is a more complex part.

With BOBCAD system units set on inches the following happens when importing a DXF:

1. "test.dxf" is imported as a 10x10 inch block although it is a 10x10mm
block. Setting the part units then on millimetres, makes it 254mm in
millimetres.
2. "BOBCAD Toolpath problem.dxf" is imported the same way as above.

Generating G-code from the above still cuts correctly in millmetres on MACH3 if I did not change the part to millimeter.


With BOBCAD set in Millimetres, the following happens

1. "test.dxf" is imported as a 254x254mm block.
2. "BOBCAD Toolpath problem.dxf" is imported and then all dimensions are
multiplied by 25.4 which makes the part huge.

What is comes down to, is that BOBCAD by default accept a file that is imported, to be in inches, which I find surprising as BOBCAD claims to have native SI units. That said, a DXF file clearly specifies in what units the file is written! BOBCAD should just read that line.

I am using CAD packages for over 25 years now having my first experience at the age of 10. I used many known and unkown CADS like VCAD, QCAD, AutoCAD, BricsCAD, TurboCAD etc and never had this kind of issue converting between any of them - which I had to do often. Being in the consulting engineering industry, I had to convert drawings from countless other architectural packages which I did not even bother to ask the names, so I am pretty well exercised in the matter. I often had to create DXF files for importing data into some very specialised other software packages for mechanical engineering design work.

Reading the forums, I gathered that the unit switching problem already comes from a couple of versions back and I find it very surprising and highly unacceptable that something so small, crucial and basic for a CAD, is not sorted in what is supposed to be a well round of package.

[BurrMan]

Hi koosjr,
I opened both of those dxf's in notepad, and there is not a proper unit definition listed in either. Therefore they are unit independent. Just "Units".

BobCad performs a "Scale on unit conversion".

To open your files properly, if you want to work in MM, you would have your system set to MM first, then MERGE the files in...

[koosjr]

To open your files properly, if you want to work in MM, you would have your system set to MM first, then MERGE the files in...

Burrman, just read a bit more carefully:

With BOBCAD set in Millimetres, the following happens

1. "test.dxf" is imported as a 254x254mm block.
2. "BOBCAD Toolpath problem.dxf" is imported and then all dimensions are
multiplied by 25.4 which makes the part huge.

I have been very intentional with including the files that I did.

Of course there is a unit definition in the large file! Check for the following.

$INSUNITS
70
4
9

The small file was submitted without that unit definition and if the BOBCAD support was bright enough, they would have grasped that the import is done the same way irrespective of unit definition or not.

This means that:

1. BOBCAD does not look at the unit definition.

2. If the unit definition is not found, BOBCAD does not revert to the next needed step, by simply prompting the user for the units he wants to use.

3. If all else fails, BOBCAD is supposed to be working in native SI units which then implies that it should rather accept the imported file to be SI and not Imperial.

[BurrMan]

Hi koosjr,

Of course there is a unit definition in the large file! Check for the following.

$INSUNITS
70
4
9

"$INSUNITS 70 Default drawing units for AutoCAD DesignCenter blocks:"

THis wont be the drawing units... You would expect to see: $MEASUREMENT

If you open those in AutoCAD designReview, the units are "Unknown"..

If you open them in something like "Corel" MM is inferred and it becomes a suggestion on importing, but I personally wouldnt want my system units being changed by arbitrary infference...

Yes though, they could have some type of dialogue popup on import asking a bunch of questions about what you intend, But hey.....

So being unit independent, In DesignReview, I can set to MM and the measurements come out correct.. If you do a unit system change on the file after opening in BobCad, it will be scaled. If you merge the files into BobCad with correct units selected, then it will be as you expect.

[koosjr]

Burrman, read the manual.

Here is the reference to the AutoCAD "$MEASUREMENT" variable that says:

Controls whether the current drawing uses imperial or metric hatch pattern and linetype files.

AutoCAD 2010 User Documentation

So it refers to Hatch patterns and linetype files. NOT drawing units.


Here is the reference for "$INSUNITS"

AutoCAD 2010 User Documentation

And as you can see, it clearly states that it is intended for automatic unit conversions of Blocks, images and XREFS. There is NO OTHER header item to determine that.

[BurrMan]

Really, the USER manual for writing the dxf format???

Here's the entire line from the "$INSUNITS" attrib.

"Specifies a drawing-units value for automatic scaling of blocks, images, or xrefs inserted or attached to a drawing."

This is not setting the files units.

I was using the 2000 dxf format reference here:

HEADER Section Group Codes [DXF - DXF Reference]

Although the 2010 user documentation does speak of hatches and such...

But are you really sure the files units are set??? Like I pointed out, AutoCads Design Review software reports the units as "Not Known"....

Can you explain this?

It would appear from the DXF ref that they have moved on from the dxf format and the last real version was "2000"???

I cant really speak to the Autocad 2010 user manual. Have they updated the dxf format specifications to a 2010 version I am not aware of?

[koosjr]

But are you really sure the files units are set??? Like I pointed out, AutoCads Design Review software reports the units as "Not Known"....

Can you explain this?

What is there to explain?

From 25 years of CAD experience, having had to convert between so many CAD packages of which I don't even know the all the names by times, the way they handled it, was simply as follows:

1. If $INSUNITS were specified, it was applied.

2. If no units were specified, the file was 99% of the time simply imported 1:1 in the units that the drawing package was set on, or I got a prompt of what units I wanted it to be.

What BOBCAD does, is to import it 1:1 when set in inches, but it automatically applies a 25.4 factor when set on mm at the the time of import. Now If you don't regard that as an inconsistent way of handling the issue, you need to explain.