[hatch789]

Hello everyone,

I have a Tree Journeyman 200R that I just purchased and I am trying to get it back in working order. It's all set up in my shop at home and ready to go but I need some help. The CNC portion of the machine is having issues. The CNC did work at first when I got the machine home but being new to my 3 phase rotary converter I accidentally left my TREE on while I was messing with my 3-phase. I did a few power downs and brought the 3-phase back online before the rotor came to a complete stop.

Needless to say when I realized my switch on the TREE was still in the ON position; I was sick. Now there are no numbers that come up when I turn it on. Just a little red dot on the display.

Prior to this mishap the CNC jog functions all worked and everything was fine. The drives did need to be tuned as they would stutter once in a while all by themselves but I think that was just a voltage issue because of a bad capacitor or something going bad. They would also make a rather high pitched whine which to me seemed to be wrong. Like they were constantly trying to move even when the table was holding steady. Now I'm scared what I may have done to my poor tree. Hopefully it's just a blown fuse or something?

HELP Please if you can. I would love to get this baby working. Furthermore, if I can get it back to working order I'd like to replace my tape drive system with an interface that would let me plug in commands directly from a PC or something like that.

Can anyone help me? Do you know some basic areas that I can perform some tests on at the circuit boards?

I'm fairly knowledgeable with electronics but I am self taught. I have an oscilloscope and various volt meters.

I have my pictures online so you can see my machine and I can even take pictures inside of my cabinets so you know what you're looking at. -So if any of you on here are good with this type of issue, please ...I need your help and advice.

The Pics at:
Tree Journeyman 200R Milling Machine Project Page 1

Just click any picture for a larger image size and better resolution.

[hatch789]

OK I took about 5 hours tonight and went through everything I could. I started with the fuses. I then found a connection between my computer board and the Memory board that was not very tight. The fiddling enabled me to get my CNC computer back online. I also followed the directions to remove the drift in the servo motors. It had me power the drives off, remove lead #10 from the X and Y axis boards and then I needed to turn the little adjustment screws (pots) until I had removed the drift on the dials.

I am finished with all of that. I am able to jog now without issue and even change my rate of speed for jogging.

What I need help with is TUNING the drives now. I have a paper that speaks of several procedures for specific types of servo motors. I guess the previous owner was trying to tune them but never understood now? So my first question is how do I know what type of servos I have in my 200R?

After that question is it normal for the drives to make a constant high pitched whining noise? I don't like it so I'm hoping it is because they are out of tune? If it's normal I guess I'll just wear ear plugs or get used to it?

I know the drives are out of tune or there is a faulty component somewhere because every so often the drives will make a noise like they are resetting and the table sort of locks into grid again like when you set "0 Grid".

Anyway, I'm excited at the progress; I just hope I can fix this properly. Do any of you know a simple way that I can change out my tape drive for a connection to an old PC? It would be nice to update that portion of the CNC.

Also is there any way to report the X & Y axis as I am moving the table around? -Kind of like a DRO? The only time it reports X&Y is when I stop moving the table from a jog routine. While I'm jogging though, it does not show any numbers incrementing.

[underthetire]

The high pitch noise is normal, however sometimes the large Caps on the drives start to dry up and will cause more noise and tuning issues. I personally would forget about the Tape conversion, and the DRO problem. The cheapest solution and most reliable would be to scrap that control off and put a PC with Mach 3 or something in its place. You will be MUCH happier, learn a lot, and be 1/2 of what the BTR would be for the Tape drive. The Iron is really nice on that machine, and it would make the perfect retrofit for a small garage shop. Just a warning if you don't, the replacement parts for that control will make you fall off your chair expensive.

[hatch789]

You say the large CAPS on the drives. Do you mean some sort of end caps or do you mean capacitors on the drive boards? In the case of capacitors I can just replace them I would imagine that will fix the problem. But if it's end CAPS of some kind can they be oiled or lubricated?

I love the idea of changing out my control system for something new and updated. I'm a programmer by trade so computers don't intimidate me. I would enjoy doing the Mach 3 conversion and I think from what I read it's free.

The trouble is there is so much information out there I had no idea where to begin. I also have no clue if my current stepper motors are fine or if they need to be replaced.

Advice in this area and pointing me in a starting direction would be a big help. I have plenty of older PC's available that I could use as well as a solid base in programming so this would be a great project. The biggest problem for me is cost. I am pretty much out of money now after buying these machines so even $1,000 right now is going to be out of the question.

Oh and while we're at it. My knee is motorized on this puppy. If I go with a retrofit system (Mach3) do you think I could put in a Z axis if I change the 3-phase run motor in the knee for a stepper motor?

[underthetire]

Yes capacitors. Last BTR i saw for tape conversion was ~1500, someone might have an old one if you could get documentation for it. Your machine should have DC servos, I dont remember any Trees using steppers, but I could be wrong. All the old DC servos just used a 10 volt reference signal for speed, some used +/- 10v for fwd/rev. Should be able to use your motors and drives quite easily. As far as the Knee for a Z axis, it could be done, but I would think it would require quite a large servo motor and drive, and you would want to hook up the auto oiler to it.

[hatch789]

Oh heck I'm stupid... I could put the Z axis right on the spindle and save a LOT of work instead of trying to put it on the knee. Yes I know it would only be 5 inches of travel possible, but that's fine with me. I would think that would be enough for most of the parts that I'd do.

OK so how do I know for sure if my drives (Servo Motors?) are the right type that I can drive them from Mach3?

[hatch789]

OK I have been doing a lot more reading and I love the EMC2 idea since I run about 7 different linux servers here at home and Open Source is my bread-n-butter PHP, MySQL, Linux...

OK so first off I need to determine if my drive motors in my 200R are compatible with EMC2 or if I need to update them?

Does anyone know how I can determine what type of drive motors I have in my system?

I have a picture of one of the drives here:
Tree Journeyman 200R Milling Machine Project Page 7

Also I understand you can do a CNC retrofit without an isolator (breakout) board but you risk your PC in the process. My PC I'm going to use for this is an old one anyway so I think I'll try it without a breakout board at first.

What I think that means is I will use the "drive" power supplies from the original system. I may need to replace a few old CAPS but the drive power supplies should be simple enough.

I'm fine taking the 25pin printer cable and breaking that out to something more easily accessible. I have a TON of old electronic parts so that's no problem and it will save me having to solder crap to the 25pin printer cable.

Are there any instructions or setup diagrams to help me get things wired up from the Printer cable to control my drives?

[hatch789]

Guys does anyone have any experience with spindle wobble on a Tree Milling machine? I put a mic on my spindle checking inside and outside and the thing seems to have about a .008" wobble in it. The longer my taper extension or milling bit the worse the wobble so I think something is out of adjustment. I need some expertise... please help if you can think of any simple things I can do to adjust this or to test for certain issues.

I am worried I have something here that I can't fix. I further worry that if I can't fix this wobble; that nothing I mill will be completely accurate. I would think this sort of wobble would be very hard on bits as well.

If you need to see pics of my mill: Tree Journeyman 200R Milling Machine Project Page 1

[underthetire]

Make sure your spindle bearing pre-load is correct. Not sure if that one has the nut just above the spindle nose or not. Then check bearings. Spindles probably coming out sooner than later.

[hatch789]

Can you please look at the pictures on my website (some are good shots of the head) and you can click the pictures to see them LARGER. I don't know what nut you'd be talking about but I sure would like to see if what you're saying works. Maybe you can see the device you're speaking of in my pictures.

Also what do you mean the "Spindles probably coming out sooner than later." ...What does that mean?

[underthetire]

You will need to take a picture pointing up the quill. And my guess is the spindle bearings are either VERY bad, or the spindle got bent somehow. Wear on the inside is kinda normal, but not on the outside. Spindles can be re-ground in the machine, but i dont remember those spindles being tough to get out.

[hatch789]

ok I'll go remove the collet and take a pic up the spindle right now. I'll do several of the spindle in as well as extended for you. Hopefully it will show you what you're trying to see.

[hatch789]

OK after doing quite a bit of work on my mill this evening... I got the mist coolant system (FluidFlex) all cleaned out and working! YEAH!!

Anyway I measured the spindle again and figured out my problem is called spindle runout. Mine is .0075 which seems pretty bad to me. So I don't think my problem is preloading as that would have been more of a "wobble" or end-play as I was trying to describe before. This is actual axial deflection.

I am hoping I don't have a bent spindle somehow, but goodness only know what this thing was doing before I got it. I don't think it was abused but I have no real way to tell.

Anyway does anyone know if there is generally an adjustment that can be done to fix spindle runout (axial deflection) in a Tree Journeyman? If I want to get at my top bearing I'm going to have to remove the motor and then the belt housing where the variable speed drive is situated. I'm not looking forward to doing that but will if it means I can fix my dear mill. Please let me know if you guys have any ideas as to how I can fix this.

I did take pictures as I promised but I have not had a chance yet to post them.

[hatch789]

Hi Guys,

OK onto a new problem. I have been working with my CNC pieces and trying to get them up to snuff for a retrofit of EMC2. In testing the various components I constructed a little test kit with 2 9v batteries in series. The center tap between these 2 batteries is the "ground" for this test and a POT works from the + and - of the two remaining battery terminals. This lets me feed a +9v to a -9v analog voltage signal into my Westamp Driver board for testing my servos.

My Y axis performs perfectly. My X however, has been having issues for about 2 months now. This is one of the reasons I decided to do this little test. It's completely eliminating (I think) the computer from the scenario. When I try to drive my X axis with this setup it seems like the servo only has one speed (HIGH) and as soon as I cross zero on the POT to go from + to - or from - to + the servo changes direction immediately. I have no control over the speed as I do with the Y axis. In the Y axis testing I can get the servo to come to a stop by resting the POT at ZERO.

I need some help in troubleshooting this please. I believe I may have a bad component on my X axis Westamp board but I'm not sure. I would appreciate any feedback that you have for me. Also if you know any further troubleshooting tests that I could do, that would be a big help as well.

[slatsmith]

I've got a retrofit going on a j-320 ( real behind on posting and pictures here).... YOUR MOTORS ARE SERVO ... you're looking at a tach on the end of the motor ... the encoder is on the screw ... most of the older servo motors were Gettys and easy to find a rebuilt one .. I pulled my head apart and went tru it when I got started on my project It's not that hard just takes time ...

[hatch789]

For a test I did a swap of my driver boards because I thought that I had a bad component on the X axis driver board. This test was an effort to see if that was true or not. The results were surprising. Please look at the short video and give me any feedback or ideas what you think I might test next.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYtd-7wIXFM]Tree Journeyman 200R Westamp Swap Test - YouTube[/ame]

So my driver boards are apparently fine.

To see some back information on 2 PREVIOUS tests that I did, you may watch these 2 older videos from last week:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B10cODnc0Ko]Tree Journeyman 200R Manual Test -Y Axis - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXifJusEFHM]Tree Journeyman 200R Manual Test -X Axis - YouTube[/ame]

[hatch789]

You will need to take a picture pointing up the quill. And my guess is the spindle bearings are either VERY bad, or the spindle got bent somehow. Wear on the inside is kinda normal, but not on the outside. Spindles can be re-ground in the machine, but i dont remember those spindles being tough to get out.

I have those pics ...are you still online underthetire? I'd love to pick back up and start working on this. I got a divorce and it derailed me for a few years. Trying to get back to tinkering now.

Also...

KC130LOADIE, you are not set to receive personal messages. I tried replying to you and it failed.

I just picked up a Tree Tradesman 200 for $500 and could use your knowledge. I have read all of your posts and website. Did you make any progress? Do you have access to any manuals?

Sorry I got a divorce and have been missing from the "fun" scene for years. I'm getting back to some fun stuff now so I can tinker again. I don't have my 3-phase hooked up in the basement yet ...that's where my new shop is. But my machines are all safe now and I'm starting to tinker ...slowly.

My efforts left off right where the threads die. So I still have very bad .0075 spindle runout, and no idea how to fix this. I did get my machine running on LinuxCNC (just x & y) enough to make some cool stuff for my daughter's science fair project. We did those out of wood. Working metal with that bad runout just destroys my end mill tools. SO I need to fix the runout before continuing with this machine. You still working with yours? I am happy to help wherever I can. I live in Hershey, PA. How about you?

[KC130LOADIE]

I have those pics ...are you still online underthetire? I'd love to pick back up and start working on this. I got a divorce and it derailed me for a few years. Trying to get back to tinkering now.

Also...

KC130LOADIE, you are not set to receive personal messages. I tried replying to you and it failed.



Sorry I got a divorce and have been missing from the "fun" scene for years. I'm getting back to some fun stuff now so I can tinker again. I don't have my 3-phase hooked up in the basement yet ...that's where my new shop is. But my machines are all safe now and I'm starting to tinker ...slowly.

My efforts left off right where the threads die. So I still have very bad .0075 spindle runout, and no idea how to fix this. I did get my machine running on LinuxCNC (just x & y) enough to make some cool stuff for my daughter's science fair project. We did those out of wood. Working metal with that bad runout just destroys my end mill tools. SO I need to fix the runout before continuing with this machine. You still working with yours? I am happy to help wherever I can. I live in Hershey, PA. How about you?

Hey Hatch,

I've been plugging along on my mill. I just decided to convert it to a manual with some extra add-ons. I did have it all up and running after doing a 90% teardown, then broke my gib holder. So, I got to play for about a week. I recently just finished machining a new gib holder and side gib. I'm waiting for a keyseat cutter to show up and I'm back in business.

[hatch789]

Sorry I missed the reply in my e-mail. Luckily I saw this reply tonight just while browsing. I'm working on trying to fix my bent spindle right now. With the help of a local friend who does a lot of machining and has a LOT of knowledge, we were able to remove the quill. Right now I'm trying to make myself a super deep socket (of sorts). Basically I'm going to swedge a 1" Bolt (1.5" head) down into a 2" metal pipe that's been heated to glowing orange. This should make a sort of HEX socket not unlike the pipe sockets that come with chainsaws or lawn mowers, for removing the spark plugs.

If I can get the large nut off then I should be able to get my spindle out of my quill.

I have been reading and watching videos online and it appears that straightening a bent spindle is not that hard if you're careful and map the high spot(s) as carefully as possible. We're going to give it a try since buying a new one would cost me more than I paid for the machine. I don't have a lot of money to put into this so I have to just make due however I can.

I also read that straightening the bend can relieve stresses that were caused by the original accident which bent the spindle in the first place. So that's kind of encouraging. I'd love to have a straight spindle again and not be dealing with .007 runout at the cutter.

Good luck getting your mill back in business KC. I'll be anxious to hear about your progress! I will try to keep you guys updated on mine.

[KC130LOADIE]

Are you going to try flame straightening or use a hydraulic press? Keith Rucker has a pretty good video on using an oxy-acetylene torch and heating up select spots here and there, and Fenner give a pretty good tutorial on how to use a press.

I'm not clear on how to straighten a hollow shaft (spindle) using these methods though. Did you every try pulling off the quick switch adapter? -or- does the spindle have to be removed first?

Kit