[rad45]

HI Twisted and group,
I'm right with you on your suggestion to sue. The "or else" letter they have right now is the preamble to us going them for real money. Buy it back plus.
The demonstrator could not have NCCAD machine the profile of a (miniature) railway wheel. The owner of MAX, the NCCAD provider couldn't or wouldn't show me how to work the tool changer and without this working the machine is going no where at all. About another 8 days before their reply should be here. Will keep you all up to what happens next.

[oldlock]

I don't have access to the machine I used anymore, but recall that the tool changer was OK to use once the factory walked me through it step by step (no manual as usual). Calibrating it was a pest of a process.

[rad45]

Hi People,

We have two separate items here. The mechanical components of the machines are really the bees knees. One only has to look at the performance of the machine with the US CNC hardware and software fitted by MDA precision.

On the other side of the fence, I struggled with the NCCAD version without success for over a year. First paid €100 an hour plus nearly €1000 for travel with the NCCAD manufacture. Worse than useless. Thenn had live (over the internet) instruction but both the hardware and software are so different to my other CNC machines that I thanked the instructor for his efforts and have just finished tearing all their boards out and am replacing the electronics with Mach4 friendly hardware principally from CNC4PC in Florida.
The tool changer is a real hiccup as it is not an NCCAD part. Also that you need to setup one tool in T1 and that is the index tool. If you alter the index tool you need to reset the others. Their locations and measurements are relative to the T1 location. I have a 15 position carousel here and thank God that its tooling is not installed and measured under the same principal.
Russell Dunn
Austria

[oldlock]

Russell - I'm about to do the same as you, any tips or tricks from your conversion that you can share, especially with the toolchanger ?

[rad45]

Hi Oldlock and group,
Sorry for the delay, have been out of the country for a few days.
Now have the shopping list of bits to buy right beside me and some other notes,
Should I do that here or would you prefer by email
Come back and tell me which you prefer please??

[oldlock]

I would say post it here, then it's on the record for anyone else in the same position. I'm sure there are others with these fantastic quality machines currently being let down (IMO) by their controllers and software.

[rad45]

Hi People, Am going to do this in two posts so we do not unduly rock the CNCZone Server.
First the parts list
C35S Quick setup Breakout board $ 39
UC300 USB Motion Controller $129
5LPT-UC300 Motherboard $ 45
C41 PWM Variable Speed Control board
For spindle control $ 43
C10S Bi-Directional Parallel Interface
Card $ 28
A74 LPH26 - LPH26 Ribbon Cable (2) $ 10
5 V DC Power Supply $ 19
All the above from CNC4PC in Florida USA
G540 4 axis Stepper Driver from Geckodrive, also in the US

[rad45]

Now what I did and why. Your mileage may vary but this is mine.
My first experiment was to remove the NCCAD Software from the computer and load an alternative. I did try several alternative software packages but none of them would work at all.
With the help of a CNC Hard- and Software technician who does this for a living, we found that the hardware was NCCAD also and designed to only work with their software.
I had mastered, after a fashion, the NCCAD software but with three other CNC machines in the shop, I decided not to waste any more time on it and reefed the lot out. So at least everything was running to the same software.
Firstly I disconnected the mains power from the whole thing, PC, Controller and machine. Next identified and labeled all the cables running from the controller to the machine, then disconnected them.
I found it would be better to leave all the mains power components intact and use them again (Coolant Pump, etc.). So then I carefully withdrew the rear panel (on the left side when looking from the rear of the console). I already had all the covers off, including the top cover with the stop switch, speed controller coolant pump switch, etc.
Did a double check of every single wire, from whence it came, where it went and what it did. I placed a small Dymo label with a number on every wire and listed its details on paper.
Made a replacement panel for the rear opening, welded a shelf on the inside of the panel exactly as done by Wabeco / NCCAD but lower down as all my components would be above the shelf. None underneath.
Then installed 100mm cooling fans on the inside of the console adjacent to the pre-cut louvres on both sides of the console. They are both placed so they will suck air (and dust) from the interior of the console and blow it out through those louvres.
The next step was to place all the components so as to maximise cooling air travel over them and space parts out so later fingers and eyes could get in and see what is what when trouble shooting.
The CNC electronics Teckie I mentioned earlier was a great help here. If he could not get the probes of his test instruments in to every terminal of every component it was a definite fail!!
Have to let this go now as I need to do some work for a client. But it will be continued to completion as soon as I can get back here. Work sometimes takes me out of the country but don't panic, I will come back to it.

[oldlock]

Thanks Rad45, I certainly appreciate your going to the trouble to post this information.

[oldlock]

Rad45 - any chance you can continue your explanation ?

[rad45]

Hello oldlock and group,

So sorry that I have not posted any more about the drama of the hard- and software change-out to my CC D6000hs Wabeco lathe but to be truthful I've spent a lot of my time out of the country and hand not done much more myself.
Will put together over the weekend an update of where I am up to almost to the minute.

[Nils Holgersson]

Hi Guys,
I wish I had found this thread before I finally bought the crappy max-computer control and ancient nccad7.5 software from Wabeco. :-(
My first impression was, that the software is heavily outdated and complicated. Therefore I ordered my D6000 as the "cc" version with stepper motors and end switches but without control. After researching different possible CNC controls, I decided to go with their system after all, because I thought I did not have enough time and patience to built my own control system. Also I thought it to be an advantage to be able to get support for the whole machine from one supplier. After a long and hard comissioning process and brain twisting days of learning to operate this unintuitive software, I finally was able to work with it. In retrospect I cannot imagine how I could have spent more time and effort with another system. :-(
And at some point a strange error occured, where the tool reference points seemed to drift. Although the machine and the tool holder have a good mechanical repeatability, the results in CNC mode drifted off in the 0.1mm range and I have to recalibrate each tool before each use in order to get precise results. I read the chapters in the help file several times, tried different reference points, but could not find an explanation.
Wabeco could not help me, but at least they tried. In the end they gave me a contact at max-computer, who were unhelpful and unfriendly. "Mr. XXX is a programmer and we don't allow direct contact to him. ...This error is impossible. You must have done it wrong. Follow the help file."
I tried everything in order to find the error and have now set up a fresh operating system and software. I can only hope that it works, but even then the system is old complicated crap. I had the software make unexpeted moves that destroyed tool inserts. It does not show current positions of the axis while running. Same with the spindle speed and feedrates. It does not even tell you which tool you have to put in next. You have to memorise the correct order of your program. Flying blind! :-(
If I get it to work properly, I will use it for now, but I am thinking about changing to a proper control system. Therefore many thanks for your hardware list, rad45!
And I agree: For anybody thinking about getting the control from Wabeco: DON'T! Their machine hardware is also oldschool, but that is not a disadvantage in a lathe. But the max-computer scrap belongs nowhere else but in a museum or the scrap-yard!
I only wish I could give it back, but I have installed the control in my own housing. Man, that was the most expensive electronic srap I have ever managed to get fooled into buying!

[Twisted]

I'm still using NCCad and all the hardware, fortunately for what I am doing it's not too bad once you get used to it, I still cannot work out how to do islands and a few other things.

[Nils Holgersson]

I'm still using NCCad and all the hardware, fortunately for what I am doing it's not too bad once you get used to it, I still cannot work out how to do islands and a few other things.

Are you using it for milling? I can only speak for lathe of course. And Wabeco still uses version 7.5 although it is 10 years old and max-computer has a version 8 for lathe and version 9 for milling. So they might be better in their current product.
For 2.5D milling you don't have too many toolchanges I reckon?!?

[Twisted]

Yep using it for milling every day at work, I try to keep tool changes to a minimum, NCCad 7.5 as newer versions will not work on my machine.

I have successfully made parts for my trike and many jigs and fixtures for work, it is bad software but I have to use it as upgrading to Mach 3 would mean that I would have to start learning all over again.

Can't believe I have been using NCCad for 8 years I must be a master in it now lol.

[rad45]

Yep using it for milling every day at work, I try to keep tool changes to a minimum, NCCad 7.5 as newer versions will not work on my machine.
I have successfully made parts for my trike and many jigs and fixtures for work, it is bad software but I have to use it as upgrading to Mach 3 would mean that I would have to start learning all over again.
Can't believe I have been using NCCad for 8 years I must be a master in it now lol.

Please excuse me replying to two previous posts in one here,

Reply regarding NCCAD 7.5 vs NCCAD 8.0
Whilst Hiram P ******* conned me into purchasing a copy of NCCAD 8 when I went for the €100 an hour training course; I later found out it will not work with any Wabeco product as NCCAD 7.5 is a dedicated package which only works with the Wabeco machines (which are fitted with Max Computer NCCAD software) The whole thing is tied together into one unholy mess. The hardware and software is all custom made by or for MAX Computer and the hardware will not work with any other program. Nor will the software work with any other hardware. Also you cannot buy any parts for the hardware.
The only way there is to ship the whole hardware package back to Max Computer and you might receive the repaired item back for Christmas. I know a guy in that predicament now.

Reply To the guy who has stuck to NCCAD for 8 years. You deserve a medal and the chest to pin it on. I put up with it for four weeks and then chopped the whole lot out. But I have three other machines in my shop all running Mach 3. My only problem as been I was ill for a while, then to Iceland for work for some months also to China for the last three months and then back to Iceland.
But am now home again. so hope to have my Mach4 controlled Wabeco lathe running by Christmas.
The proprietors of "New Fangled Solutions" who now own Mach 3 and Mach 4 are doing the software for me to run the Wabeco tool changer on my CC-D6000 lathe.
Sorry for the length of the post.
Russell in southern Austria

[Twisted]

9 years and counting with NCCad

[rad45]

Hello to Virgin and to People shaking their heads over NCCAD.
What I have done is to remove all of the Max Computer/NCCAD hardware and software. All I have of the original now is the Wabco lathe plus the Auto Tool Changer and the ball screws.
I've been checking around and between all of my professional commitments have decided to purchase a PoKeys 57CNC which has everything on the one board. The only thing that remains is that one can only rotate the Tool Changer forwards. Not because of anything with the former NCCAD software but rather that the Tool changer itself needs to travel forward except when it locks in a tool.
But now I can change tools with without having to reset all eight tools when I need to change out one tool.

Check out the PoKeys website and maybe write them with any queries. They have every single thing you need to start it all up and based on that you already have the Lathe or Mill with ballscrews.
The PoKeys main board can accept up to eight steppers or servos as you require.

After getting it all plugged in, it works!
Russell Dunn
Ferlach
Austria