[10bulls]

Hi guys!
I've been having a jolly old time getting into making PCBs using isolation routing.
If anyone is interested, I've written up an account of it here.
Please excuse the website...like my router it is small and amaturish.

[Mcgyver]

good job, I, and I'm sure many others appreciate that. i plan on going down that path as well! Have ever thought about how to get a black & white image, like is available for toner transfer, into Gcode? maybe corel trace?

[10bulls]

good job, I, and I'm sure many others appreciate that. i plan on going down that path as well! Have ever thought about how to get a black & white image, like is available for toner transfer, into Gcode? maybe corel trace?

Thanks Mcgyver.
I haven't tried them yet, but Eagle power tools does have dxf->Eagle and bitmap->Eagle converters. Other than that, yes you could use corel trace or WinISO...problem there is turning that into a toolpath with proper offsets for the router bit width etc.
Could try bitmap->dxf using a trace program then dxf->eagle, eagle->gcode.
Bit convoluted though :/

Good luck!

EDIT - I just tried eagle power tools. It looks like the bmp->eagle will work, but the demo version is limited to 100px X 100px...registration is fairly cheap though...similar to Mach3.

[pminmo]

10bulls, Great job. Care if I put a link on my website to your page?

[10bulls]

10bulls, Great job. Care if I put a link on my website to your page?

Thanks, I'd be flattered. I'm hoping to get a links page up soon so I will return the favour!
BTW: Can I use your signature on my gravestone?

[MrBean]

Fantastic. Makes my boards look.....Well....Crap, really.

[smarbaga]

mrbean/
i have not looked at 10bulls place yet but thats a good lookin board u have .
also turn them upside down, they all liik the same ... nice job

[santiniuk]

Next I ran the drilling code (...TD.NC), pausing every now and then to change drills when the code told me to (...get me another drill bit Monkey Boy!).

Great stuff.

How long would you estimate it takes to mill that board 10bulls ? (Opto input).

Mr bean, that board looks pretty fine to me....

I don't have any plans to mill my boards but I would love to cnc drill them.

Do you have any thoughts on how this could be done ?

lets say I have the artwork in pdf or gerber format. Do you think it would be a quick job to generate a Gcode to do the drilling ?

Keep it up.

Cheers

[CLaNZeR]

excellent page, well done!

Out of interest, what speeds are you running the machine and drill at when rubbing out?

Regards

Sean.

[Evodyne]

Hi guys!
I've been having a jolly old time getting into making PCBs using isolation routing.
If anyone is interested, I've written up an account of it here.
Please excuse the website...like my router it is small and amaturish.

10bulls,

Thanks so much for sharing. Very nicely done-lots of good information. I remember taking hours using rub-on Radio Shack trasfers to lay out boards and using my mom's pyrex cake pans as etchant tanks. Ugh! It would be SO nice to do it your way. Oh, by the way, I think your machine looks just fine-your site too.

Lance

[Evodyne]

Fantastic. Makes my boards look.....Well....Crap, really.

Nah! Think positive: Charge controller...has to handle high current...needs wide, low-resistance traces...Perfect!

Lance

[10bulls]

How long would you estimate it takes to mill that board 10bulls ? (Opto input).

I could probably get it done in about 2-3 hours (with < 30mins needing supervision), but my mill is a bit of a donkey. I'm still using 1.25mm pitch M8 threaded rod AND I've got 1:2 reduction on my y-axis belt drives (originally planned for servos). Buckets of torque, but I don't cut much above 200mm/min.

With your swanky kit I'm sure you could get that down to much less than an hour. I takes me that long to clean up my etching chemicals.

I don't have any plans to mill my boards but I would love to cnc drill them.
Do you have any thoughts on how this could be done ?
lets say I have the artwork in pdf or gerber format. Do you think it would be a quick job to generate a Gcode to do the drilling ?

I *think the .cnc drill files in Alan's gerber package is Excellon...that's what I converted it as and it worked fine.
There must be an Excellon to gcode converter around somewhere (They're pretty simple text files and no need for tool offsets)
Failing that, the process I described does produce the drilling gcode file for you. (I'll attach the one I generated).
Sounds complicated (gerber->script->eagle->gcode), but once you've done it a couple of times, it only takes a minute or two.

Then you just need to line your board up. Again, take 3 hole dimensions,
jog to these points and line then up with your 'Etched' pads on your board. When your happy, clamp it.

Only problem is that with UV and toner transfer, what you see isn't always what you get. You probably have found this yourself. Hot Laser drums and paper both warp and introduce errors so you may find some drill holes don't go dead centre.

Honestly, give routing a try it's a LOT easier than it sounds.

[10bulls]

I remember taking hours using rub-on Radio Shack trasfers to lay out boards and using my mom's pyrex cake pans as etchant tanks. Ugh!

TRANSFERS!!! Bl**dy Luxury! I remember school holidays with my mate making PCBs with Dalo marker pens and crappy plastic hand drills from Dick Smith Electronics (Oz)! We used to DREAM about using transfers!

It was about this time I discovered aluminium saucepans don't make good Ferric chloride etching tanks

[CLaNZeR]

Must admit I been making homemade PCB's for years and never had any probs using clear overheads via a laser printer for artwork, then into light box to expose.

But the worst bit was always over exposing with Caustic soda, tried all the professional developers but they all seemed 10 times more expensive until one day I found a miracle LOL

Seno PCB applicators!
http://www.rapidelectronics.co.uk/rk...9438&XPAGENO=1

The developer one is fantastic and allowed me to confidently run tracks between pads with no worry of over developing after exposure, just wipe it over and watch the exposed photo resist drop away, also safe to the hands not like other nasty developers.

But now I have ordered some of those 60º router for isolation milling and rub out, and hope to get rid of these chemicals completley!

Regards

Sean.

[10bulls]

excellent page, well done!

Thanks...just checked out your website...That's a sweet looking machine!
Good luck with your venture...I think there's a big market there!

Out of interest, what speeds are you running the machine and drill at when rubbing out?

I rub out at 200mm/min which is as fast as my machine will go...I think as long as your spindle is fast you could go as fast as you like.

Drilling I think I dropped down to 100mm/min, but that's probably way too cautious.

[10bulls]

Must admit I been making homemade PCB's for years and never had any probs using clear overheads via a laser printer for artwork, then into light box to expose.

Me too, but for double sides I often found some pads would not quite line up.
Especially on tiny via pads. My laser isn't the best though.

But now I have ordered some of those 60º router for isolation milling and rub out, and hope to get rid of these chemicals completley!

MegaUK *say* the 60 degree is for rubout, but it's a very sharp point so you have to go deep to get much more than 0.4mm.
The 30 degree has a more rounded nose and actually routes a wider path.
For rubout I prefer the chipbreaker bits 0.8mm...much cheaper.

[CLaNZeR]

Dunno if you seen this site, but I would suggest maybe shouting for a catalogue, as some handy stuff.

I use their engraving bits:
http://www.mastergrave.co.uk/index.htm?page20.htm

They do grind down to 0.005 and not a bad price at about 6.00 GBP and re-grinding at 2.80 GBP.

I engrave aluminium using a 0.5 bit and take it to 400mmPM at 0.4 deep with no hassle at all.

Will have a good play with milling PCB at different rates and let you know how I go.
I use Kcam software which can auto Isolate a gerber from Protel, so makes life easier.

Again thx for starting an interesting thread and your excellent feedback.

Regards

Sean.

MegaUK *say* the 60 degree is for rubout, but it's a very sharp point so you have to go deep to get much more than 0.4mm.
The 30 degree has a more rounded nose and actually routes a wider path.
For rubout I prefer the chipbreaker bits 0.8mm...much cheaper.

[smarbaga]

for a large number of the same board, 10 or more i was making a silk screen
with the resist squeegied on.
this method was very accurate and i could get traces down to .008".
the resist ink hardened on the boaed like rock and you could leave in ferric
all day if you wished ( a figure of speach there ).
it cost about $150 to fet set up. this would yield you about 10 6" x 6" screens
which you could use oer and over.
i think the supplier, advanced screen printing has gone out of buisness as i don't see them listed anywhere
i was using monocoat yellow for the screen and razo diazo zero plus photo imulsiom for the patern,
stretch a screen onto a frame, spread imulsion onto it, let it dry
you place your boaed patern ( thats on acitate ) on the screen.
a uv light cures the imulsion and you wash away the uncured with water.
squeege resist ink through the screen onto your clean blank copper board.
as fast as you can squeegie you can put risist onto the boards.
let it dry ( an hour ) then etch.

[CLaNZeR]

Sounds a good way, but how do you get around the pads that you do not want covered with photoresist so you can apply solder and poulate?.
Do you have to manually rub off in these areas?

Regards

Sean.

for a large number of the same board, 10 or more i was making a silk screen
with the resist squeegied on.
this method was very accurate and i could get traces down to .008".
the resist ink hardened on the boaed like rock and you could leave in ferric
all day if you wished ( a figure of speach there ).
it cost about $150 to fet set up. this would yield you about 10 6" x 6" screens
which you could use oer and over.
i think the supplier, advanced screen printing has gone out of buisness as i don't see them listed anywhere
i was using monocoat yellow for the screen and razo diazo zero plus photo imulsiom for the patern,
stretch a screen onto a frame, spread imulsion onto it, let it dry
you place your boaed patern ( thats on acitate ) on the screen.
a uv light cures the imulsion and you wash away the uncured with water.
squeege resist ink through the screen onto your clean blank copper board.
as fast as you can squeegie you can put risist onto the boards.
let it dry ( an hour ) then etch.

[10bulls]

Sounds a good way, but how do you get around the pads that you do not want covered with photoresist so you can apply solder and poulate?....

Smarbaga correct me if I'm wrong, but the resist being screen printed on isn't photoresist, it's etchant resist. The boards would then be etched and the resist washed off with a solvent. Pretty much what commercial board houses do. Great stuff smarbaga! How does this fare with double sideds?

Nice thing about this way is that you could also screen print on solder resist. (Not to mention printing your own T-shirts, wallpaper etc)

BTW CLaNZeR, thanks for the mastergrave and Kcam links...I'm gonna give both of them a try.

SANTINI! Did you notice Kcam does Excellon->gcode conversion, so you could use that to convert Alan's drill files directly.