[handlewanker]

HI, that's a strange situation.......if the licence states specifically for a CNC machine, what about all the add on bits that go as peripherals and could number in the hundreds if you wanted to exaggerate.

China must have a special high volume foreign trade department specifically geared to printing licences in bulk with a rubber stamp for the first million bundle if the World market is anything to go by.

That other explanation for the long delay in these machines being exported as it takes so long to hand print a licence on rice paper....LOL.......the rice paper is not as absorbent as conventional paper, so the ink takes longer to dry.

But I digress.......when is a CNC machine considered a CNC machine?......when it is a turn key item?......or to be more exact, would you consider the machine to be a CNC one if it is a bare bones basic machine like the SVM-0 with ER32 spindle or the advanced package like I ordered that has the ISO 20 spindle and a High Speed Spindle too complete in an enclosed cabinet etc along with a collection of items to make it more enhanced.

What I am saying is.......does the machine have to work out of the box as a turnkey CNC machine per se, or must it be further enhanced by adding a tool changer and power drawbar to make it a "real" commercial interpretation of the CNC aspect as opposed to a hobby mill with CNC characteristics.

If that be the case, then it is a CNC machine if the design is orientated specifically in that direction, as opposed to being a manual mill that is reworked in another factory and exported as a CNC machine with all the bells and whistles etc but which it really is not.

But if the licence calls for a complete package with electronics etc, then does it also state that the damm thing must work at point of destination?........the 6040 routers are not reliable in that context as many people who experience trouble with the controllers change them over to Gecko's and dump the supplied "blue" box.

The buyer still has to supply a computer and cad/cam package to make the machine work, so it is not all that turnkey in the end.

I would say that if the SVM-0 machine was supplied with a "blue" box that only paid lip service to being a controller and only added a dollar or two to the package cost as it was going to be dumped anyway, that would cover the licence requirements and allow a replacement of the electronics as the buyer desired.

Better to have the electronics sourced locally and warranted than all the way back to China under warranty at buyer's cost.

BTW, the machine I have on order does not have a power drawbar fitted to release the tooling even though it has the drawbar with Bellville washers in place to hold the tools in the spindle, (it is my responsibility to make and fit it) so it cannot be a CNC machine per se if you can't supply tools to the spindle or remove them......you can't even mount a tool in the spindle without some means to push the drawbar down.

The same analogy would therefore apply to a machine that did not have an electronic controller fitted as part of the package but could be by the buyer.

As so many variable have been accumulated from the word go to make the mill(s) what they now are, adding another variable by removing the electronic content would not sink the ship.

Judging by the photos in previous threads of the various electronic components, they are well put together, if a book can be judged by it's cover, but can add a huge amount of time to a mill build package as is now apparent.
Ian.


























































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[bjones]

so you think skyfire has cut off all contact with his customers because of possible export license trouble? too funny. i bet you'd be happy if skyfire would make one final reply here and tell you it's over and done with so at least you'd have closure. how about it skyfire, if you are still reading here, i bet you are, tell these guys their money is gone, the products will never ship and this nightmare is over. this is the best you could hope for unless someone is willing to make a trip to china to verify that the guy is even alive still. any takers?

[high-side]

Hi John,
I saw the jeppoifications/youtube vid. of the X7 you mentioned. It does look like a very impressive machine. I believe he had also listed it for sale on Ebay, but made mention of "bringing a trailer and help to get it out of the shed".
I didn't bother to contact him, since the machine is on the other side of the planet from me, and he didn't mention anything regarding shipping being available.
Syil is going to be at IMTS in Chicago,IL. next month, and I plan to go see them in person.
Thanks,

Pat

[skillalot]

From his old company: "mr ren is working in yantai city ,shandong province"
So he is alive, but not working for his old company anymore...

[skillalot]

Oh, by the way, anyone who want to give him a call and ask where his or here machine stays?
I found some nice whois information of his website, including phone number..
http://mawords.com/whois/whois.php?D...skyfirecnc.com

[wizard]

It is strange that www.skyfirecnc.com still works. However at this point you really need to look elsewhere for a machine like this. Eventually you have to realize that the offers where a little to good to be true. Even at the lower costs associated with manufacture in China I never really saw a profit opportunity to sustain a company.

Hi, at this moment in time I would be happy to just get the basic machine from SKYFIRE.COM without any electronics whatsoever.

That is, a machined set of castings assembled with ballscrews and stepper motors and not even painted.

Judging by the amount of effort that many people go to with converting manual mills to CNC, starting with a dedicated basic machine that only needs finishing would have to be the answer to the need for this type of machine design.

It would beat outlaying a wad for a manual mill, removing a lot of already paid for parts and then retrofitting the CNC bits to attempt to produce the "ideal" machine package that never really gets to the starting gate.

The SKYFIRE designs are dedicated complete CNC packages from the ground up, designed as CNC mills and only for that purpose, but as the packages contains a huge amount of peripherals after the machining stage to make them work, the time and effort to get to the finished product stage that exuded perfection or a product of high integrity appears to have broken the back of the proverbial camel.

If the basic SVM-0 mill has a selling price of $3,500 as a complete package, then I would think the stripped down package could retail for half the amount, buyer to finish off to his/her requirements.

This would beat any retrofitted manual mill project that has dovetails and a quill as the normal starting point to overcome.

Even the spindle packages are buy in off the shelf items, so no supply problems there.

Maybe I see it as a simple solution, but as the machining of the mills was so far advanced, it would appear that the finishing is taking all the time and effort.
Ian.

[syil]

ok.see you there,this time we will bring the combo series,all details have been list on the syilamerica.com
in china,we are mostly focus on high precision machines centers,experically on the T3 model...
you can have a good,and i`m sure will bring it at next time IMTS.and next year EMO Milan

[bjones]

It is strange that www.skyfirecnc.com still works.

why? the domain name is paid till 2018 and if his host is also paid there's no reason for it not to be still working, he'd have to shut it down or the host otherwise the computers don't care if you are alive or dead.

[handlewanker]

Well, export licences, being strictly controlled, do keep a tab on the commercial aspects of the Communist population in China......they can't have too many back yard billionaires getting too much wealth and freedom.

I suppose if you went to China and bought up a container load of cheap machinery, the seller would not be actually exporting the stuff, so an opportunity to make a few million exists there, and all it would cost would be the plane fare to China and a couple of days on holiday.

Of course, at the other end you pay the import duty on the combined container load, whatever, but you'd have to pay duty on anything you buy direct from China if it exceeds a certain value (not sure of the amount) even if they have an export licence and send only one item.

Going to a container load means you are setting up as a dealer and intend to make money purely from the sales of whatever, whereas I only want one machine and a few extra bits and pieces and wouldn't dream of taking a trip to China just to get one.

With not a lot more to lose, one person with knowledge of China conditions could be funded to take a trip to China and bring back the goods.

If 10 people with vested interests in the Skyfire set-up clubbed together $300 each to send a representative to the work place and secure the goods or report back, the problem would probably be solved.

However an investigative agency with contacts in china would probably do the same job with more tangible results.

That would probably be the last resort, but one that could bear fruit for the least extra outlay.

Having seen the last set of photos of the machines wrapped in plastic while being wired up for the electronics etc, I have faith that they do exist and can be recovered without too much drama, but not having any posts or emails as to the when for delivery dates, the patience could soon run out.

I just had a horrible thought, supposing Defeng is sitting in a prison cell doing time for not paying his bills etc and the machines have all been sold off at auction to pay the bills and he does not have contact via the internet to explain the silence of the mills.
Ian.

[mactec54]

handlewanker

Is Defeng his full name,if anyone knows post it here, & is there any phone # that could be used, I have contacts in China they may be able to find him & see what has really happened, He most likely ran out of financial support, a start up business like this needs a lot of money, there would not be any problem with him exporting any part of the machine someone wanted, I will be speaking with a manufacture in a few days, they may be able to locate him, if I have enough imformation

[bjones]

didn't you bother to read the post at the top of the page? all of ren defengs information can be seen by merely looking up skyfire.com on whois. handlewanker said before he could make the trip for $600 but now he's trying to get $3000 out of you people, i hope no one falls for this and loses more money to this fiasco.

[mactec54]

bjones

It will cost someone at least that amount or more to find him, Have you ever been to China, can you speak there language,also that may not even be his real name, he is not at the address what is posted on his web site

[rustyh]

in china no one can sell anything outside the country except a licensed trading company. skyfire created a trading company to sell cnc machines and as such that's all hes allowed to sell. not sure how the spindles hes sold fit under that actually, but I know he specifically said he is not allowed to sell kits or castings..

This isnt true as you can simply have your shipping agent apply for a license (costs about $300 USD), or you can ship via a free trade zone within china
we do it all the time

Also, your chances of an investigator seizing goods in a land we are all foreign too is Zilch, the only way your going to achieve this is via government contacts and I doubt any of you have any!!

[bjones]

mactec and you know he is not at this address how?
Registrant Name: Ren Defeng
Registrant Organization: Ren Defeng
Registrant Street: Room301,2#,lane124,MiaojingRoad,Pudong,shanghai,PR C
Registrant City: shanghai
Registrant State: shanghai
Registrant Postal Code: 201200
Registrant Country: CN
Registrant Phone : +86.02151862261
Registrant Fax: +86.02151862261
Registrant Email: [email protected]

no i don't speak chinese but skyfire defeng seems to speak english with his posts here and emails to customers which if you have been reading he has completely stopped doing. if that's not his real name then this is a pretty big scam. i find it funny that handlewanker comes up with all these excuses but never mentions any attempt by himself to make contact with defeng. these people have made payments, surely they must have receipts for the transactions to who they paid. the above info should match at least some of it. unless the guy is dead there is no excuse for leaving everyone guessing, i would imagine he would have these peoples contact info too and could get word to them via email, this thread, phone or post to at least ask for patience if he still had any intension of giving them what they paid for. i think he's taking the stand of ignore them long enough and they'll go away. my guess is he got in over his head, spent all their money and sold all the parts for scrap which was melted down to make more tanks.

[mactec54]

Also, your chances of an investigator seizing goods in a land we are all foreign too is Zilch, the only way your going to achieve this is via government contacts and I doubt any of you have any!!

I do have a Government contact, that is related to this industry, I will be meeting with him on the 20 through 23th of this month, about other business, if I have the time I will mention what this guy has done

bjones yes I have a different address/email

[ihavenofish]

This isnt true as you can simply have your shipping agent apply for a license (costs about $300 USD), or you can ship via a free trade zone within china
we do it all the time

skyfire specifically stated he could not sell kits or castings or otherwise unfinished machines due to his license. perhaps he meant "without extra paperwork and fees".

in any case, none of this particularly matters at this point. the best you can hope for is getting at least some of your money back now via paypal, visa, or howver you paid. if hes no longer working at the company, and this was under their budget, the machine are probably "lost" to everyone here.

I don't think any of this was a scam, but hes definitely not handled whatever disaster happened very well. all he really needed to do was send a 1 sentence email explaining his status.

[ihavenofish]

handlewanker said before he could make the trip for $600 but now he's trying to get $3000 out of you people, i hope no one falls for this and loses more money to this fiasco.

not that I would send him - but to be fair, theres a big difference in "making a trip" and actually accomplishing something on said trip. his numbers are probably about right.

I would just send someone that knew what they were doing when they got there. unfortunately that's probably none of us.

[ihavenofish]

mactec and you know he is not at this address how?.

because it was stated few posts above yours in the communication with the company he worked at.

it is probably his real name though.

[rustyh]

not that I would send him - but to be fair, theres a big difference in "making a trip" and actually accomplishing something on said trip. his numbers are probably about right.

I would just send someone that knew what they were doing when they got there. unfortunately that's probably none of us.

I agree with that, I parted with my savings based on his persistent and over positive recommendations of Skyfire CNC, and I am now kicking myself for even letting myself do that.

I can only hope we all get something back from this mess, whether money or part machine, it a shame so many are out of pocket.

The only bonus I have at the moment is I negotiated a split payment structure so am not down by the full machine cost

[handlewanker]

Well well, a big kettle of fish no doubt........the point is, we have taken the course of direct buying from a foreign manufacturer.....that is we are not wholesalers, or even retailers, so in that manner we are just inexperienced gamblers.

I still would like to get the goods.....no use to have the money with the thought of the goods being just out of reach due to some glitch.

BTW, I did not hint for a moment that I would go to China to sort things out.......I suggested that it could be a way across the board to slightly increase the outlay currently incurred by the various wishful purchasers of the SKYFIRE products, and to that aim I suggested that a collective amount to cover the travel expense to be bourn by at least 10 people would suffice to gain the face to face contact and facilitate a fruitful outcome.

I expect China does have some legal system whereby a person can be charged with unlawful practice and made to pay the price for doing it.

If Mactec can even make contact with Defeng from his sources China wide, it will achieve more than all the chin wagging so far.

This is one ball game I have to wait out for the end play.

Somewhere in a dusty Chinese factory or lock up there are a bunch of machines wrapped in plastic sheeting and waiting to be finished off, but if Defeng has lost the plot and gone into debt due to over extending himself......let's hope the goods have not been sold off to pay for the outstanding debt.

BTW, BJones is a troll and does not have vested interest in this topic, so if he continues to make out of context remarks I will report him.
Ian.