[Luis Van Damme]

I was asking help for CNC machine and were directed to here. Here is my original question:

First of all, I'm total noob.

I've decided to get small CNC machine for myself because ordering few small parts from machinist shop costs as much as the cheappest CNC Machines (500€) and I would always have to wait for at least a week to get the parts.

I need a machine that can work with aluminium, has precision of +-0,1mm and can do shapes at least around 150x150x50mm.

Since I'm noob, I would like to get a kit that has everything (software not required, I can buy it sepetarely after testing different ones).

I'm experienced in 3D product drawing with AutoCAD. Will the CNC software be hard to learn to use?

Cheaper the machine the better. I've been looking this for example: Zen Toolworks

Any help is appreciated

Here's latest parts I've desinged that needs to get done so you get some idea what I'm doing with the machine:

http://i.imgur.com/Vfdbu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ioi0H.jpg

Is mill converted to CNC machine best way to go and are there easy noob friendly ways to build one?

[jeremy0203]

thats like 700 usd. ummmm good luck with that is all ill say, you would spend over half that just buying the minimum tooling needed to get going

[jeremy0203]

just looked at that machine. good luck trying to make those parts on that. not the type of machine for the job you are trying to do

[Luis Van Damme]

Well, can you suggest what I should get?

[jeremy0203]

for that price, nothing, sorry

[Luis Van Damme]

for that price, nothing, sorry

I'm looking for cheapest machine that can make parts I need. I didn't say that price is what I can pay. That was just cheapest full CNC machine I found.

[jeremy0203]

you can see if you can find an x2 equivalent and buy a cnc conversion kit for it.

what sort of volume are you having done on those parts

[Luis Van Damme]

you can see if you can find an x2 equivalent and buy a cnc conversion kit for it.

what sort of volume are you having done on those parts

I was looking at one conversion kit but the installation manual was 27 pages long and I don't want to take that much responsibility when building the machine.

Mostly I'm doing only 1 piece per part. Basicly I will make parts for my own use that I can't buy anywhere (and no machine shop seem to want to make them either).

How about something like these: http://www.sherline.com/prices.htm

[rpovey]

The Sherlines Y travel is only 4 inches ~ 100mm.

They are relatively accurate SMALL light weight machines, I have one converted to CNC, the sort of parts in your first pictures are why I bought something larger. Removing that much metal from the raw stock is going to be painfully slow on the Sherline.

You should really start by figuring out what you can spend, the Sherline will cost you roughly $1000 for the mill, $500 in parts for the conversion to CNC, you'll need miscellaneous tooling which will probably run you another $200-$300 and that's before you add in software cost and start breaking end mills.

[jeremy0203]

decent setup to make those parts id say at least 2000+ USD

[Luis Van Damme]

The Sherlines Y travel is only 4 inches ~ 100mm.

They are relatively accurate SMALL light weight machines, I have one converted to CNC, the sort of parts in your first pictures are why I bought something larger. Removing that much metal from the raw stock is going to be painfully slow on the Sherline.

You should really start by figuring out what you can spend, the Sherline will cost you roughly $1000 for the mill, $500 in parts for the conversion to CNC, you'll need miscellaneous tooling which will probably run you another $200-$300 and that's before you add in software cost and start breaking end mills.

My budget is around 2500€ (3500$). If I choose to make only 1 piece of each desing just for myself, then the Sherling or similar would be good enough, because I would only do new parts like once in a week. But if I choose that I could make larger ammount of each part and sell them, what would be the best option in your opinion?

[jeremy0203]

Anything of a decent size that I know if for your price range would be a diy conversion. Being as how you said you didn't even want to read that manual on some other conversion I don't see you likely to want to take on a diy project

[MichaelHenry]

You might be best served by getting a Sherline or Taig CNC mill and using that to learn with for a year or so. Once you have some experience you will better know what sorts of features you most need in your situation. At that point you can buy a larger/better CNC mill and sell off the learner kit.

Mike

[Luis Van Damme]

You might be best served by getting a Sherline or Taig CNC mill and using that to learn with for a year or so. Once you have some experience you will better know what sorts of features you most need in your situation. At that point you can buy a larger/better CNC mill and sell off the learner kit.

Mike

I've been thinking the same. Though since I live in Europe, I've been looking more machines made in Europe. Proxxon FM 70 CNC looks "ok" at least for me. I made another thread about it.

[roninB4]

Mostly I'm doing only 1 piece per part. Basicly I will make parts for my own use that I can't buy anywhere (and no machine shop seem to want to make them either).

How about something like these: SHERLINE Price Listing

If you're only making one of each part (and maybe a few for later sales) then I have to ask why you're even considering CNC when a manual mill will certainly create the parts you posted. Consider the time for CAD/CAM modeling (ok maybe the CAD is going to be there anyway for more complex parts) that's part of the cost for creating every part. Unless you really need to retain the data for future interaction with other parts a quick hand sketch on a sheet of paper (kept in a notebook) will be enough. I don't know how complex your other parts are/will be, but a quick sketch on paper is what I did for 25 years in the toolroom on simple parts. I design things in CAD every day and can appreciate what is possible to do with electronic tools. I'm also a big fan of CNC, I did things to mold core/cavity surfaces that would have been difficult with manual machines. However, use the tool that is appropriate for the job. The 2 parts you posted are standard looking designs that would not really see a time savings or greater accuracy from using CNC unless there are larger production numbers. CNC is great for production runs, surfacing in true 3D, or complex geometry but it's not "THE SOLUTION" for all machined parts. It's not a simple matter of plugging in numbers and getting a finished part that reflects the original design either. Until a program is "proven" you'll be taking a cut, measuring, and using cutter compensation to arrive at the dimensions the part requires. How is this different than using a hand crank to arrive at the target dimensions? When you program in a circular cut you do not really get a true circle either, this may/may not be important to you. My point is that the machine does not guarantee accuracy, the methods and toolilng does. The cost of a manual machine over CNC is considerable and your choices for machinery are greater with a manual one. I'm not advocating manual machinery nor am I knocking your motivation to enter the realm of computer driven manufacturing. I'm just saying you should select the right tool for your needs and it doesn't sound like the added capability of CNC would benefit your needs. Just my opinion, no disrespect intended.

[alpinasjofallet]

I agree with ronin.

If you just want to have physical objects of your design, I would suggest getting a 3D printer, like RepRap or the Up3d.

If you want to learn cnc, start with turning, or routing/cutting. Or mill in plastic/wax. Milling metal in 3D, requires some heavy equipment and experience. Both come with considerable costs...

[Fastest1]

If the part is made of metal, aluminum, steel or otherwise, forget the Sherline. Yes it MIGHT be able to produce the part but it will take a long time. They are great machines and many people have done some exceptional things but I wonder how many have not. Get a larger machine. Preferably a machine with cast iron ways.

[LUCKY13]

You said your budget is around $3500,00 USD. Can you spend more later as you start making parts?


You see that is a very small budget to work with, but it can be done. But tooling, measurement equipment, layout, work holding will cost way more than you expect. You will have to buy these things as you go.


YOu also suggested you didnt want to get into DIY conversions. But from where your standing its the only real answer unless you wish to just use a manual machine.


I highly suggest getting a machine int he size of a G704 like Hoss has, or something close. Buy something that there is plans, parts, kits offered for that will help make the CNC change over easier. You will be much betetr off doing the change over yourself so that you understand the working of the machine for knowing how to get it running later. At this price you cant depend on factory made machines to keep you going, you just want be able to afford to.

PLus a machine this size will help you and your machine to make more parts, have more flexability for future designs, make more parts at once, not have to wait a day for a simple part to be machined by to small of a machine. IT will pay for itself quikly if you truely have parts yuou can sale.


It happens every time. Once you have a CNC machine you start understanding really what is possible, and you start branching out in your work. BUt, you go to big on a machine and it starts costing to much to afford, you go to small and you leave yourself very limited and time constained to make money.

The real learning doesnt start until you start making chips. Going through the DIY, and using software that is cheaper or even free can help take you much farther down the road if you cant afford to buy completed fully optioned machines. Time will be spent, but unless you have 10 grand usd to start off with plus more to add to later you had better look at the big picture with reality.

A manual machine is not a bad option, but it does require spending on equipment and tooling that otherwise could help pay for the CNC and help getting you making parts at a profit much easier. If you was going to stay manual its not a bad thing. But a manual setup that is quick and will produce parts at a rate to be profitable takes some doing.


The right size machine, DIY change over, will give you the best results in the end with more money towards what is needed to make it happen. It will take more than you understand to do so ( tools, eqipment, measuring and such). Plus you will be able to keep the machine working in top form yourself because you built it and understand it. It seems like a lot to go through at first. But buying a machine that others offer parts,kits and info on helps so much.

The G704 is a very capable machine for its size and price. Infact it is much more of a machine than I ever expected out of a mill this size. I dont know what is available on your side of the pond but I would be looking for something much like it, if not it.


Jess

[Luis Van Damme]

Thanks for the replies. LUCKY13, this looks to be similar machine manufactured in Germany: Optimum Machines: F 30 / F 30 Vario

This is a bit smaller version and they also sell CNC kit for it: Optimum Machines: BF 20 VARIO

I don't really need larger travel areas than MF70 provide or possiility for more precise drilling (0,01mm is more than enough for me. Even 0,1mm would do), but extra speed and power owuld be welcome addition. Not sure if it's worth the extra cost though.

I could make the CNC update myself if it's not too hard process and there is no difference on how the machine performs after the installation (vs installed by a pro).

[Luis Van Damme]

How much will DIY conversion cost for Opti BF20 for example? The conversion kit on their site costs 2100€. Feels wierd to pay that much when the machine itself costs only 1500€.