[IsItSquare]

I am building a 4' by 5' CNC. The design is based mostly on the one done by DIY Builds on Youtube. Link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjdX...NOQyBmb3IgOTAw

My changes to this design will be to use Linear rails, 5 Start lead screws with larger motors, and use MACH4 as the software. There will also be some changes to the Gantry, and table top.

The Electronics I have chosen so far consists of:

Stepperonline 420oz motors for X&Y and 290oz for the Z axis
Warp9 Ethernet SmoothStepper CNC Motion Controller
STEPPERONLINE Switching Power Supply 350W 48V 7.3A for CNC Router Kits 115V/230V S-350-48

My question to the group is what do I need to put between the SmoothStepper Motion Controller and the Motors? Do I still need to use a Stepper driver card for each axis or a breakout board? This part has me confused, and any help here would be most appreciated.

My thought process at this point is I need a breakout board to connect the drives but again, not sure. If this is not enough info, I can put links to the different components.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
EddieB

[awerby]

You could get a breakout board and drivers for each motor. Or use a Geckodrives G-540 which includes the BOB and 4 drivers good to 50v.

[pippin88]

Why would you use leadscrews when ball screws are so cheap?

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I use Mach4 an Ethernet SmoothStepper and my own homemade breakout board.

The breakout board does not really 'do anything', that is to say it does not have logic or other smarts on it, but rather amplifies and buffers both inputs and outputs and
provides convenient screw terminations (or sockets/plugs) to connect to real world hardware. A good breakout board will hopefully provide some protection for the ESS should
you have a wiring sanfu.

The pic I have posted of my BoB. Not all the inputs and outputs are 24V, excepting the differential motor outputs. So my BoB provides the voltage translation from the 5V of the ESS
to 24V of my servos. If you apply more than 5V to an ESS input or output you'll wreck....so don't do it. This is the sort of protection that a BoB offers. It also has a Spindle On/Off relay, a Spindle
PWM output circuit, and a 24VDC output for the Z axis electromagnetic brake. All-in-all you can see I made my BoB to suit my machine.

There are plenty of BoB's ranging from a simple C10 ($23.00) up to an MB3 by CNCRoom. The MB3 ($190) is a three port board with differential motor outputs, a good balance of 24V tolerant inputs and outputs,
with relays for the spindle and a rather clever PWM output circuit. Despite the cost an MB3 is favoured.

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

just re-reading the post and I made a typo that changes the meaning:

Not all the inputs and outputs are 24V, excepting the differential motor outputs.

It should read:
Note all the inputs and outputs are 24V, excepting the differential motor outputs.

Craig

[IsItSquare]

Hi,
I use Mach4 an Ethernet SmoothStepper and my own homemade breakout board.

The breakout board does not really 'do anything', that is to say it does not have logic or other smarts on it, but rather amplifies and buffers both inputs and outputs and
provides convenient screw terminations (or sockets/plugs) to connect to real world hardware. A good breakout board will hopefully provide some protection for the ESS should
you have a wiring sanfu.

The pic I have posted of my BoB. Not all the inputs and outputs are 24V, excepting the differential motor outputs. So my BoB provides the voltage translation from the 5V of the ESS
to 24V of my servos. If you apply more than 5V to an ESS input or output you'll wreck....so don't do it. This is the sort of protection that a BoB offers. It also has a Spindle On/Off relay, a Spindle
PWM output circuit, and a 24VDC output for the Z axis electromagnetic brake. All-in-all you can see I made my BoB to suit my machine.

There are plenty of BoB's ranging from a simple C10 ($23.00) up to an MB3 by CNCRoom. The MB3 ($190) is a three port board with differential motor outputs, a good balance of 24V tolerant inputs and outputs,
with relays for the spindle and a rather clever PWM output circuit. Despite the cost an MB3 is favoured.

Craig

Craig,

Thanks for the reply, greatly appreciate it. If I were to go with the MB3, would I need a stepper driver in between the MB3 and the motors or is the BOB sufficient? If I need a stepper driver for each motor, then can I use the stepper online driver -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y5VPSFN...v_ov_lig_dp_it

If not, what would you recommend?

The motors I will be using are NEMA 23 -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PNEPW4C...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Got the "Note all the inputs and outputs are 24V, excepting the differential motor outputs." Funny, big difference between NOT and NOTE

Again, thanks for the help.

Cheers
EddieB

[joeavaerage]

Hi Eddie,

Thanks for the reply, greatly appreciate it. If I were to go with the MB3, would I need a stepper driver in between the MB3 and the motors or is the BOB sufficient?

You would require drivers, the BoB produces signals in the mA range and will never drive a motor direct.

Others have recommended the G540, and it's a fair recommendation. It is in effect a one port (17 inputs and outputs) breakout board combined with four moderately capable stepper drivers.
Gecko is a highly regarded brand. As has been pointed out the G540 operates up to 50V, which is a shame because all the current crop of stepper drivers are at least 80V capable, and some
even more, 110VDC.

For my money I would get an MB3, as it has three ports (51 inputs and outputs) which fully exploits all the ESS has to offer. The MB3 'future proofs' you whereas G540 will always be IO limited for anything
but a very basic machine. I would prefer also to have separate drivers, especially because they would be 80V capable at least, not that I have anything negative to say about Gecko's quality.

So the drivers you have are OK, and good to 50V. If you already have them then by all means use them. You can update later to higher voltage units if you want to. If you have not bought them yet, then get something like these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15141401535...oSi68Z9LC2dJX2

These units are up to 80VAC or 110VDC. So, you could supply these drivers from an 80VAC step down transformer....and your steppers would sing!

Those steppers you linked to are OK, but the inductance is a bit too high, 3.8mH. For 23/24 size steppers you want 1mH-2mH, 1mH preferred and reject anything over 2mH.
There are lots of manufacturers who make high torque steppers in small packages and very cheaply, but they all have too high inductance. They make them to catch new and first-time
buyers who don't know about inductance. As it is; the steppers you linked to will still work, but you should plan to drive them with at least 80VDC to make for the higher inductance.

Craig

[IsItSquare]

Hi Eddie,


You would require drivers, the BoB produces signals in the mA range and will never drive a motor direct.

Others have recommended the G540, and it's a fair recommendation. It is in effect a one port (17 inputs and outputs) breakout board combined with four moderately capable stepper drivers.
Gecko is a highly regarded brand. As has been pointed out the G540 operates up to 50V, which is a shame because all the current crop of stepper drivers are at least 80V capable, and some
even more, 110VDC.

For my money I would get an MB3, as it has three ports (51 inputs and outputs) which fully exploits all the ESS has to offer. The MB3 'future proofs' you whereas G540 will always be IO limited for anything
but a very basic machine. I would prefer also to have separate drivers, especially because they would be 80V capable at least, not that I have anything negative to say about Gecko's quality.

So the drivers you have are OK, and good to 50V. If you already have them then by all means use them. You can update later to higher voltage units if you want to. If you have not bought them yet, then get something like these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15141401535...oSi68Z9LC2dJX2

These units are up to 80VAC or 110VDC. So, you could supply these drivers from an 80VAC step down transformer....and your steppers would sing!

Those steppers you linked to are OK, but the inductance is a bit too high, 3.8mH. For 23/24 size steppers you want 1mH-2mH, 1mH preferred and reject anything over 2mH.
There are lots of manufacturers who make high torque steppers in small packages and very cheaply, but they all have too high inductance. They make them to catch new and first-time
buyers who don't know about inductance. As it is; the steppers you linked to will still work, but you should plan to drive them with at least 80VDC to make for the higher inductance.

Craig

Craig,

Thanks for the information, when I looked up "80VAC step-down transformer" to say the least, I was lost... Can you recommend a Stepdown transformer and Stepper motors that meet the 1 - 2 mH Inductance? I may still have to go with what I have as I am on a budget for the build. Retiring and always wanted to give this a try.

Also, you said "As it is; the steppers you linked to will still work, but you should plan to drive them with at least 80VDC to make for the higher inductance". Would that change the recommendation on the 80VAC Step down transformer or would that still work?

I am fairly quick to pick things up but in this realm, there are so many options....

Thanks for the advice, this has been most helpful.

Cheers
EddieB

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
This is technically a 40VAC output transformer, but has two 40V windings. If you connected them in series you'd get 80VAC. Once 80VAC is rectified and smoothed
it will produce 110VDC. That would match 80VAC or 110VDC input stepper drivers.
https://www.antekinc.com/an-10440-10...v-transformer/

The same company produce linear DC supplies, which are a stepdown transformer, rectifier and filter capacitors. This is a good example, 80VDC, 12.5A output (1000W).
https://www.antekinc.com/ps-10n80-10...-power-supply/

Note that transformers and linear supplies, ie based on a transformer, are very rugged and will handle brief, but very substantial overloads. Switch mode supplies are cheaper and widely
used because they are cheaper, but they do not have the ruggedness and overload capacity of a decent transformer/linear supply.

These are some examples of low inductance steppers. Note that many of them do not have spectacular torque output, and all absorb a lot of current. You might ask
'why do these thing hog that much current for so little torque'......the answer is that to make them low inductance you have to do that. The thing is that with an 80VDC to 110VDC driver
to back them they'll retain 40%-50% of their torque to 1000rpm or better. So they have less torque but it hangs in where high inductance steppers die the faster they go.

https://www.leadshine.com/product-detail/57CM23.html
https://www.leadshine.com/product-detail/57CM13.html
https://www.leadshine.com/product-detail/60CM30X.html
https://www.leadshine.com/product-de...0CM35X-FS.html

Were you to build a machine using both low inductance steppers with a high, say 80VDC supply and 80VDC drivers it will go fast, and that is a prime requirement for many users.
These components are readily available but tend to be on the high side price wise. You can certainly save money by buying medium-high inductance steppers but only to sacrifice speed.
Your choice.

Just as an example I have attached a Speed-Torque diagram for a 57CM23. While it only has 300oz.in see that it has still 140oz.in at 1000 rpm, and that's with a 48VDC driver, imagine how much better
it would be with an 80VDC driver?

Craig

[McLovinLBC]

Would You be interested in a smooth stepper or a UC400ETH. I'm Currently selling them?