[Brian L]

I just purchased a used 1992 Partner 4 D (maybe S as I get conflicting info from Milltronics) with supposedly a Centurion V control. It has been without power for a while, and hopefully won't be a huge issue to bring back to life. I won't have my hands on the machine until the end of next week, so maybe most of this wll be answered when I can delve into the guts of things.

Little of my history, used to own and run an Aerospace machine shop with a multitude of CNC equipment from Hardinge Conquests with Fanuc controls, mills with Fanuc's, a Fadal, and even some old Shizuoka's with Bandits and Hardinge CHNC's with Allen Bradley controls. Was in a car accident back in '91 that put me in a wheelchair and sold off all the machine shop. About 10 years ago, picked up a Deckel manual milling machine, FP1, to putter around with and now wanted to get another CNC to produce a few ideas I have.

This machine is stored where I can't get around it to see the electrical panel in the back, is this where the "computer" resides, along with a floppy drive? And hopefully a secondary keyboard access point? I have gotten the hardcopy build sheet from Milltronics (awfully nice people by the way, very helpful and knowledgeable) that lists the parameters, so from previous messages on this forum it would appear I can install them (if necessary because of length of time with no power) either using the control key pad or a secondary keyboard (if I am understanding this correctly). What format of a file are the parameters on floppy, is this something I could sit and type in a text file and put it on floppy?

Regarding the power, don't have three phase, this machine has no variable speed dial, so I'm assuming that the spindle is VFD driven and from what Milltronics is saying, that VFD can be powered by single phase, anybody done this? Also, what's involved separating out the 110V requirements for the computer, and are the drives powered by 110V or 220V single phase? Or is it even necessary if the VFD will run single phase, just hook up two leads and I'm off?

I have no idea on the conversational programming, I know g-code inside out, but would like to try the conversational aspect, from what I've seen posted, it's well liked and useable. Is there any place to find out about this programming shy of buying the programming manual from Milltronics at $150? Is the conversational something I should be able to pick up just fooling with it, or would the manual be worth it?

I'm sure I'll have lots of other questions, but that should be enough for now. Oh a couple of pictures... if I do this right....

[ZZZZ]

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

Yes, the computer, also known as the card cage, is located on the magnetics panel inside the electrical box.

The floppy drive is under the trap door on the side of the electrical box, seen in your photo #3.

There is a socket for an AT style (large round DIN style) keyboard plug on the Keypad Encoder Board mounted to the backside of the alpha-numeric keypads on the front panel. Some machines had an extension cable that mounted the socket on the outside of the Front Panel box.

The parameters are stored in a machine-language file called PFILE.DAT which is located in the B:\RAM directory. I don't think you can edit the file without messing it up and making it un-readable.

If the spindle is inverted, you should be able to run the machine on single phase 240vac. Just put the 2 hot legs on terminals 1 and 3 on the disconnect switch and make sure you have a good ground. There is a step-down transformer that creates the 120vac for the computer, monitor, and some relays and solenoid valves.

The Milltronics Centurion control has a very powerful conversational programming feature, but it also has a text editor built-in and will run Fanuc 10 style G&M code programs as well. I think $150 is a little steep for the manual, it is more of a reference book than a operators manual. Spend some time playing with the screens and ask questions on this forum, there is a wealth of knowledge available here.

That looks like a nice, clean machine, good luck with it.

[Brian L]

Thanks ZZZZ,

So the little box looking affair above the RS232 port will flip open? Never thought to even try flipping it open. Thanks for the tip on single phase, Milltronics sent me a pdf that has some of the electrical diagrams, it appeared to be L1 and L3 I would want, just wasn't sure if the VFD would need that without knowing the brand and model... I know most will take single phase in and have a reduced output.... but just which terminals to connect I wasn't sure.

As far as the parameters go, does Milltronics have the ability to send you a new disc (I forgot to ask them that)? Or like I've read, I can just put them in and then make a copy. I couldn't find any connections on the control box, it appears the front half of the box is hinged on the left side and you have to remove three small button head cap screws to actually open the box.

I looked over the ways, hard to tell with the oil and dust collection, but I think once cleaned, and I get some Vactra through the lube system, the machine appears to be in excellent shape. The way oil pump, I assume it is triggered through the machine somehow, is it strictly on a timer/gearmotor to lift the plunger, or is it controlled by a parameter setting, i.e. every so many minutes of actual axis movement, or so many inches of travel? I know some of the CNC Deckels are that way. I couldn't get around the side of the machine with the tank, but it looked like a Bijur oiler and I suspect it's more like one pump every so many hours.

Thanks for the info, great to have a place to ask where folks have the same machines.

[ZZZZ]

On the older machines, you will probably have to make-do with the parameter list. Let us know when you get it powered up, you may be able to save some of the B:\RAM directory files if you get lucky.

The lube pump is a gearmotor/cam/pump as you suspect, it is powered only while the machine is re-set.

[Brian L]

I went and downloaded the simulation software from Milltronics, a bit baffling with no instructions, but I think I can play with it and muddle my way through a few things. A couple questions, when you start up the machine, I assume some sort of switch on the back panel to power things up.... I don't see a on/off button on the front panel, does it just automatically power up (used to machines where you hit and on/off button to bring up the screen and computer).

OK, once you have turned on the machine, what is the process to home it, I'm not seeing/finding anything in the simulation software.... might be there, but I haven't found it yet. So, what's the process for powering up, and down for that matter, always take the machine home then power off, or leave it so many inches off the home position? Where is home position on these machines? All the way X minus, Y minus and Z plus?

[ZZZZ]

There is a lever/knob in the door to the electric cabinet that powers the mag panel and the front panel.

After power-up, the display should show the DRO numbers, the machine status, and the softkeys. You will press the Reset button to energize the axis drives, then press the F1-HOME button, and then the Cycle Start button to start the homing process. The axis home near the positive limits so Z axis will move up to its home position, then X will move to the left and Y will move out at the same time. You can home from anywhere at any time.

The simulator software is intended for programming so the machine motion functions (F1-HOME, F2-JOG, F3-HDW, F4-RUN) aren't available.

[Brian L]

Thanks, that all makes sense. If you are running along and hit the e-stop button, does that necessitate a homing of the machine to get going again, or can you just hit reset and be back in business?

Looking at the operators panel, the only button I don't understand is the tool reset button? What does that do? Something to do with getting tool length offsets? Does the machine have a tool length table (tool library?) and a work position set up... you would use G54-g59 in G-code, is there a table for the conversational input of those type of figures, i.e. distance from home to part zero zero?

ZZZZ, I don't mean to monopolize your time and experience here, but I do appreciate the answers and help, what sort of machine and control do you have?

[ZZZZ]

Pressing the E-Stop button drops out the reset relay which removes power from the drives, the encoders remain powered. There is no need to re-home after an E-Stop.

The Tool Reset button is pressed after a tool change to confirm the completion of the manual tool change. There are 99 tools in the Tool Offsets Table so on machines with automatic changers, the button is pressed to confirm tool numbers above the pocket count. The Tool Table stores both the tool length and the radius/diameter for each tool.

There is also a Work Coordinates offset table for the G54-G59 offset values as well as the G52 and G92 offsets, safe zones, and the G28 and G30 reference points. Newer software versions have 10 subsets of each of G54-G59 offsets for a total of 60 work offsets .

[Brian L]

Thanks, that all makes sense.... one thing I don't care for with a friends mill that runs Mach 3 is that you loose position when you e-stop. So with the tool reset button, do you hit that and machining resumes, or you still hit cycle start again? Sounds like it's almost an automatic M01 (option stop).

99 tool offsets, great, that way I should be able to build a tool library and pretty much leave everything in a holder. I have a cheap Chinese version of a 3D Haimer Taster that I can call tool #1 and use that for a probe and then all my lengths will be set to that.

The work offset table should be good too, I will most like use dedicated fixtures on a lot of the work, so I can put the fixture on, go to that offset and run from there.

[ZZZZ]

An E-Stop cancels all operations, a reset only restores power to the drives, you will have to start the program again. You can start a program from the beginning, from a toolchange, or from a block number.

[Brian L]

OK, lots of fun, lots of questions.... went and got the machine today. Have it home, started cleaning and getting things hooked up. It appears that the machine was barely used, ways are nice, table (once I got all the dust and oil caked on it off) looks almost pristine... more issue on the machine from oil stains and such from sitting than anything else.

The way oil tank was a bit nasty in the bottom, so unclipped the tank, rinsed it out, cleaned the filter and put it back together with some fresh oil. Hooked air to the machine for the power draw bar, ran single phase 220V into the L1 and L3 terminals and it fired right up.... kinda... sorta.....

Cabinet fans came on (well, one did, the external fan we had to really clean out and then it ran too). the VFD powers up, but has a fault listed, it is a Safetronics GP5 and the screen says "EF3 Ext Fault 3".... so that is my first question.

Second, the screen come up with this message and I can't seem to get past this:

G-2 INC GC-201 EGA
EGA BIOS Version V 2.4
Copyright G2 Incorporated 1987-1988
Max Logic Inc.
_ (and that is a blinking cursor on the last line)

Hitting reset, E-stop, any of the buttons, nothing seems to work. None of the drives are powered, and the tool change button won't function.

I tried to pull the tool out of the spindle by disconnecting the input side airline on the cylinder and hitting it with air pressure.... it's trying, the cylinder comes down hard enough to send the ballscrew spinning and drive the quill down. I locked the small pulley and tried again, and the tool tries to release, but isn't coming completely out of the spindle. Not sure what sort of gripper it has, balls or fingers, and could one be stuck and not letting the tool fall completely out?

So, if I can get past the lack of coming all the way up, I suspect things will be good. I took a few pictures of the inside of the electrical cabinet.... was extremely clean in there for an almost 20 year old machine... I wiped a bit of dust off the bottom and vacuumed it out. Oh, did check all the fuses in the panel that I could find.... and saw no lights on any boards when attempting to power up.... so hopefully it's just something minor.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[ZZZZ]

The spindle drive fault is normal, it will go away when the machine is re-set.

The tool might be stuck in the spindle because of dirt/rust/dried coolant/low air pressure/bad air cylinder/bad luck.
When the air cylinder pushes down on the drawbar, it compresses stack of belleville washers and releases a ball-lock cylinder that grips the retention stud. You may have to pry down on the v-flange while pressure is on the air cylinder to help pop the tool loose. Don't forget to take the cutter out and protect the table first. A long time ago, I thought I could catch the tool, I didn't, and I left a divot in the table.

BUT, your biggest problem is the computer doesn't boot-up. I would suspect the CMOS battery has failed and the set-up info has been lost, start looking there.

It does look like a very clean machine, well worth the grief/expense to get it running. I have the 'big brother' machine, a Partner 5, and they are a very solid, heavy duty machine.

[Brian L]

ZZZZ,

Thanks for the info, I suspected the VFD was waiting for a signal and that's why it was in the faulted condition.

The tool, first time I tried it, nothing budged, so I took a plastic hammer and tapped on the side of the holder and it sprung free (yes, took the tool out, had rags and wood between it and the table), but it falls maybe 1/2" or so and then the balls are still hanging on the retention stud. I'll try some repeated releases and see if it doesn't eventually pop free.

The CMOS battery, watch style pancake battery I assume? On the motherboard in the card cage? If that battery is toast and I don't have something to replace it with, if I hook the computer up to a 110V extension cord, can I keep the parameters intact until I get a new battery? or make a copy? Will I need DOS too? Or is that going to be gone too?

I remember reading about the procedure for parameters here somewhere, will go looking....

[trevj1]

I own one like yours, and ran one at work for some time.

If your spindle is not retracted above the home position, the tool will not be released. At least the machine at work has a hand drawn line about an eighth of an inch above the Zero line, marked as the tool change position. Can't move the spindle up unless ypu pop the belt off the servo and hand-bong the ballscrew around to move the spindle that little bit higher so the balls will clear the pull stud.

Two batteries to look out for. The CMOS battery on the motherboard and there is another one on the SimDisk board as well, IIRC. I dealt with the latter, on our work machine a while back, and it went reasonably well. Until the SimDisk skipped a groove a blew a trace on the card, in any case.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/milltr...t_boot_up.html

Milltronics emailed me a copy of a workbook for the conversational programming for the asking. Maybe worth asking them if they can send it to you.

Cheers
Trev

[Brian L]

Hi Trev,

Thanks for the link to that thread... a question though, why does that thread not show up on the page when I open up this forum? Are there multiple pages of threads (older ones?) I'm not seeing anything but one page.... shoot, I'm probably missing all sorts of info.

I found the battery on the motherboard, (with the help of a friend, I didn't know exactly what to look for) but have not pulled the Simdisk card out yet to look for a battery there. A question, I have three identical looking cards, assume that those are XYZ axis cards.... the first one has the little two wire connector that hooks to something (round cylindrical item) labeled "Keyboard" on the MOBO. So is that one the Simdisk card, or is it the next one to the left that is the Simdisk card?

Tool change, I did run the ballscrew manually (the cover on the end of the Z axis motor is the only thing actually missing on the machine) all the way up until it stopped, then carefully grabbed the end of the belt pulley to hold it from turning and attempted the tool release... I suspect the balls in the retention knob gripper are stuck from sitting and it's going to take a bit of playing around to release.... I'll have to wait for help, don't have enough hands to shoot air into the cylinder and fool around with the bottom of the spindle at the same time.

I will contact Milltronics this morning and see what I can get as far as some info and help, I've found a few pdf's floating around with some programming tips, and now the one regarding setting up the SRAM drive.... be nice if they had all of these listed in one spot on the website.

[Brian L]

OK, I figured it out, when I subscribed to this forum, my settings were to only see the last page.... wow... I have 25 pages of threads to catch up with..... shoot, talk to you guys around Christmas time then... :drowning:

[Marty_Escarcega]

I'm helping Brian with his machine. The old 286/16 would not post so I'm going to upgrade it with a new old stock 486DX2/66 with 4meg memory. I'd like to try and boot it to a CF Card. Has anyone successfully done it? I did it with a much newer Pentium 4 computer. My concern are the hard disk parameters that would need to be set in CMOS. Also I am aware of the partition size with an old Dos machine. I think I can get a hold of Dos 6.22. Then I understand it is a matter of copying the files from the SIMDISK for which I have ordered a new battery. Brian's was dead. Machine had been sitting for quite some time.

Also, has anyone successfully replaced the CRT monitor with an LCD monitor? Looks straight forward to me, 8/16bit ISA VGA card and plug it directly into the new monitor?

Thanks in advance for any advice/comments.
Marty

[Marty_Escarcega]

Made some progress on Brian's computer. The original 286/16 motherboard was all but dead, would not POST. Hung after the EGA bios was displayed. Located a new old stock 486/DX2-66 motherboard with memory and CPU. All 8 expansion slots were 16 bit ISA. I replaced the battery on the SIMDISK it was bad.
I got a 2Gig Transcend 133 Compact Flash card, IDE adapter and a new copy of MS Dos 6.22. Luckily the motherboard recognized the CF drive, I was able to partition the CF drive to one 2Gig partition. Loaded DOS on it, ran FDISK /MBR and the drive was bootable. I powered down the motherboard, removed the CF drive and installed the sim disk, with some finnageling, I was able to copy all 3 directories \RAM \ROM \CNC to a single floppy disk. I removed the SIMDISK, reinstalled the CF drive booted and created the 3 subdirectories and moved the respective files into them. I edited. the PATH.DAT file to change the drive letters to C:. (thanks for the advice and suggestions ZZZZ) so I am at the point I believe ready to hand load the parameter file after being reassured we are good to go.

[Brian L]

Fantastic work Marty, can't thank you enough for helping with the computer end of all of this, I'd be totally lost. Pretty sure I sent you the parameter list that Milltronics supplied to me... is that something we can load now, or have to be back in the machine with the axis drives and such hooked back up?

I see light at the end of the tunnel now.... hot dog...

[Brian L]

Pictures of the computer progress.... I've gotten a lot of cleaning and rebuilding done also, will be moving the console down and out to where I can reach from my wheelchair, so pictures of all that will be forthcoming in the next week or so.

Old Simdisk card:



New MOBO with CF card drive instead of Simdisk:



Booting up through self test:



And last but not least, the machine software: