[Gundawg]

I was sold on the duality lathe as an option for a part I make but now I am second guessing that after doing a search and several people saying they would not buy one if they had it to do over. I am not a cad / cam wizard but I get by drawing 2d parts for my router. I am wondering how hard it is to write code for making some simple profiles. I need to make these parts (photo attached) from 1" 6061 AL. This will be a two step approach I have a manual indexer to do the mill operations but I need to turn the profiles. I have made these parts on my manual machines but they take too long so I have been outsourcing them to a CNC shop. The problem is I have to order a bunch to get the price down and I sit on them for about 1 1/2 years. I would like to make them a few at a time as I need them.

I have other parts to make with the mill as well or I would just buy a CNC lathe. The question is buy the duality lathe with the mill or try and use the mill as a vertical lathe?


Here are some pictures of the shafts and the Fish tables I make the shafts fit into fishing rod holder mounts. The tables are made on my CNC router.

Thanks Mike

[bobeson]

If I were just making that part, I would probably put it into an R8-shank ER40 collet and turn it vertically, then use the 4th axis to finish it. As a Duality owner who is generally unsatisfied with the product, I will say that it would likely turn this part just fine, once you find the wee little intersection of tooling, feeds & speeds that allows you to make the cut without stalling the spindle motor. Setting up the duality for one operation is kind of a pain though. If I were you I'd get the 1100 & 4th axis first and see how vertical turning works out for this part. Then pick up the Tormach PCNC lathe when it comes out in a few more months

[Gundawg]

If I were just making that part, I would probably put it into an R8-shank ER40 collet and turn it vertically, then use the 4th axis to finish it. As a Duality owner who is generally unsatisfied with the product, I will say that it would likely turn this part just fine, once you find the wee little intersection of tooling, feeds & speeds that allows you to make the cut without stalling the spindle motor. Setting up the duality for one operation is kind of a pain though. If I were you I'd get the 1100 & 4th axis first and see how vertical turning works out for this part. Then pick up the Tormach PCNC lathe when it comes out in a few more months

Thanks Bob I am leaning that way and I just talked to Tormach about a 4th axis I already own and it sounds like I could use the one I have. When I bought my ShopBot router in 08 I bought a 4th axis indexer. I was new and had not used this CNC equipment before and through my own ignorance I thought the indexer worked like a lathe and was going to make that part with it. After getting the router and learning the capabilities of it I found that it was not the right tool for the job (indexer not router). It seems I may now be able to make use of that indexer for cutting the flats on the mill and drilling the hole in the proper position. I will try and make the turning portion on the mill as a vertical lathe. It helps to talk this stuff out when you lack in experience.

Thanks Mike

[Gundawg]

Here is a picture of the indexer I have now. The chuck is designed for wood but I figure I could buy another chuck. It is a stepper motor and I took a picture of the plug out of curiosity would that plug directly into the Tormach or would I need another plug?

Thanks Mike

[Wog]

Another option would be to mount the part vertically in a 5C fixture on the table and cut the hex with an endmill. You wouldn't have to mount the 4th axis/indexer.
If you are already turning the alum down to a little under 1" to clean it up, it will fit in a standard 1" 5c collet.

[dbrija]

I was sold on the duality lathe as an option for a part I make but now I am second guessing that after doing a search and several people saying they would not buy one if they had it to do over. I am not a cad / cam wizard but I get by drawing 2d parts for my router. I am wondering how hard it is to write code for making some simple profiles. I need to make these parts (photo attached) from 1" 6061 AL. This will be a two step approach I have a manual indexer to do the mill operations but I need to turn the profiles. I have made these parts on my manual machines but they take too long so I have been outsourcing them to a CNC shop. The problem is I have to order a bunch to get the price down and I sit on them for about 1 1/2 years. I would like to make them a few at a time as I need them.

I have other parts to make with the mill as well or I would just buy a CNC lathe. The question is buy the duality lathe with the mill or try and use the mill as a vertical lathe?


Here are some pictures of the shafts and the Fish tables I make the shafts fit into fishing rod holder mounts. The tables are made on my CNC router.

Thanks Mike

Read through Scott_M's posts. He is the vertical lathe master. I have a Duality and I'll likely just use his methods instead.

[philbur]

I don't think a direct drive stepper is going to be of much use. No torque (you will need a maual lock, then you may as well use a proper manual indexer) and low resolution steps.

Phil

Here is a picture of the indexer I have now. The chuck is designed for wood but I figure I could buy another chuck. It is a stepper motor and I took a picture of the plug out of curiosity would that plug directly into the Tormach or would I need another plug?

Thanks Mike

[TXFred]

If you're going to get a Duality, it makes more sense to just get a regular 7x14 lathe and convert it to CNC. Then you can have it set up full time, with no need for it to be on the Tormach's table taking up space.

That's the approach I'm using. And I plan to use the vertical lathe mode of the Tormach as well for certain projects, such as finishing TTS blanks into complete tool holders.

Frederic

[WOTDesigns]

I have read over and over about the duality lathe stalling. having never seen one I have always wondered: couldn't one just add a better/larger motor?

I think one of the OP concerns was programing for the vertical lathe. it would be one heck of a neat learning experience, but how challenging is it? could one use a turning cam and change the axis on the program or post to create g code for the vertical lathe?

[Gundawg]

If you're going to get a Duality, it makes more sense to just get a regular 7x14 lathe and convert it to CNC. Then you can have it set up full time, with no need for it to be on the Tormach's table taking up space.

That's the approach I'm using. And I plan to use the vertical lathe mode of the Tormach as well for certain projects, such as finishing TTS blanks into complete tool holders.

Frederic

I have 2 manual lathes now far superior to a 7x14 but they are not CNC and I am not wanting a project I want something to use right out of the box. The turning on the mill interest me though and the video's I have seen on here look like it is not that dificult if I can figure out the programing.

Mike

[philbur]

The turning ops on those parts look minimal and very simple. You should be able to do the turning on a dozen of those in a decent lathe in the time it would take you to change and set the part depth 12 times in your mill!

Phil

I have 2 manual lathes now far superior to a 7x14 but they are not CNC and I am not wanting a project
Mike

[davidperry3]

Read through Scott_M's posts. He is the vertical lathe master. I have a Duality and I'll likely just use his methods instead.

+1
The Duality is what you call "a lesson learned the hard way".

[Scott_M]

I don't think a direct drive stepper is going to be of much use. No torque (you will need a maual lock, then you may as well use a proper manual indexer) and low resolution steps.
Phil

I looked at that picture for awhile for the same reason. I don't see how they could have thought a direct drive stepper could work in that application. Then I noticed that the stepper seems to be plugged into another "box" my guess is a gear reduction setup. So it could work.
( The plug is different than the Tormach )

And

You should be able to do the turning on a dozen of those in a decent lathe in the time it would take you to change and set the part depth 12 times in your mill!
Phil

You only have to set up the first piece for offsets in the vertical setup. When changing stock you just set the depth the same in the collet with a ruler. just make sure it is just a bit longer so the first facing op "zero's" it to your setup.
I think I could set that job up in a 1/2 hour and finish a part every 2-3 minutes.

Scott

[Gundawg]

When I was making that part in my lathe and manual milling machine with manual indexer it ran about 22 minutes per part. I am not a machinist by trade so I am sure that time could be shaved a little. Both ends need to be faced three different diameters need to be turned then off to the mill and indexer to machine the hex and make a parallel key slot then drill a cross hole. This also demands you stand in front of the machine the whole time. Making these with a CNC would allow me to deburr parts or assemble while it is running then change parts. I do a lot of hand finishing and assembly work with my products when running my CNC router I plan my work that way to maximize time spent in the shop.

The CNC shop I use charges about $10 machining each part on the smallest size and in order to get that price I have to buy a minimum of 40 parts for each size and style there are 2 styles (different dimensions) and 3 lengths. But this is just one part to make I have many more to make but this is the only turned part for now. I have another turned part I will be making soon. I have other milling and drilling a taping operations to do on other parts I make.

I have never tapped with a machine before and I am wondering how you generate that tool path do you have a wizard in the software? My Cad program does not have a tapping toolpath wizard. Since it is not rigid tapped I am guessing a pause is needed before changing directions can someone explain how that works for me?

Mike

[bogiestl]

That's made from hex stock to start with, right? Two ops should do it, but there could be some issues with the workholding, but nothing major. But to tell you the truth, I'd probably consider something like a CNC retrofit Grizzly 602 10x22 pocket lathe... I'm probably going to set one up for small parts, probably with a homebrew lever-change 5C collet chuck (yeah, it'll stick out past the spindle). Some stuff is just easier on a lathe - Where I'd worry about stuff is just the length of the part - if you can put it in a steady rest or a follow rest after an initial cut, you're way ahead of the game...

[MichaelHenry]

Aluminum turns pretty well for me on my Duality but the motor stalled when threading a new adapter in aluminum for the PCNC1100 coolant line (~18 mm), even with very shallow passes.

I'm anxiously waiting to see the features on their new stand-alone CNC lathe, which is in development. I expect that it will be much improved over the Duality.

Mike

[btu44]

My experience with the Duality is the same as all of you...very limited.

I wonder if this lathe could be "shoe horned" on to the PCNC1100 and a tach installed.

LittleMachineShop.com - HiTorque 8.5x16 Bench Lathe

I just don't have the funds for such an experiment.

[MichaelHenry]

For my circumstances a stand-alone CNC lathe makes a lot more sense than the Duality for other than very casual and light duty use. I'm reminded of how much better my Craftsman 12x36 lathe worked compared to my Sherlline lathe (and the 12x36 Clausing compared to the Craftsman. Ditto for a Clausing 8520 mill compared to the Sherline mill, and of course the Tormach compared to the Clausing mill. Aside from robustness, it is a PITA to pull the vise off my mill so that the Duality can be installed.

Still the Duality is better than no CNC lathe at all and I was able to make some parts and do some learning of SprutCAM turning ops with it as well as the New Fangled conversational wizards.

Can't wait to see what Tormach has in store for us with their CNC lathe.

Mike