[JerryBurks]

I have been using one of these Chinese spindles for a few months. So far I am quite happy with it, but used it only on my old flimsy router that could not go very fast anyway.

Now I moved it to my new DIY build that can run higher feed rates but now I found the spindle limits. I used a 1/4" upcut spiral (not exactly new) and ran a full slot at 80ipm 0.1" deep though bamboo plywood (about as hard as Hickory or Padauk) at 20,000rpm and the spindle bogged down, finally stalled.

I ordered the spindle as 0.8kW (65mm diameterx160mm long) but got one that is 65mmx210mm long and I found spindles of that size rated somewhere else with 1.5kW (which is also what the VFD is rated). So I am not really sure if I have the 0.8 or 1.5kW version.

I just want to get an opinion if that is to be expected for such a spindle and if I should better upgrade to a bigger one if I want to make full use of my new machine. Or can it be that some VFD settings are not optimal? Or maybe just get a fresh end mill (although the cut is clean, not fuzzy and not burnt)?

Thanks, JB

[hub]

I have been using one of these Chinese spindles for a few months. So far I am quite happy with it, but used it only on my old flimsy router that could not go very fast anyway.

Now I moved it to my new DIY build that can run higher feed rates but now I found the spindle limits. I used a 1/4" upcut spiral (not exactly new) and ran a full slot at 80ipm 0.1" deep though bamboo plywood (about as hard as Hickory or Padauk) at 20,000rpm and the spindle bogged down, finally stalled.

I ordered the spindle as 0.8kW (65mm diameterx160mm long) but got one that is 65mmx210mm long and I found spindles of that size rated somewhere else with 1.5kW (which is also what the VFD is rated). So I am not really sure if I have the 0.8 or 1.5kW version.

I just want to get an opinion if that is to be expected for such a spindle and if I should better upgrade to a bigger one if I want to make full use of my new machine. Or can it be that some VFD settings are not optimal? Or maybe just get a fresh end mill (although the cut is clean, not fuzzy and not burnt)?

Thanks, JB

Hmm, that should easily cut through wood without stalling.. Check your vfd current setting..

[JerryBurks]

Hmm, that should easily cut through wood without stalling.. Check your vfd current setting..

I did and the VFD is set on 7 amps. Should be ample for this small spindle. I did find it was set to 4 poles and the spindle only has 2 but I believe this only changes the displayed rpm.


Edit....just noticed the current display on the VFD only shows 1.1 amp maximum under load when it is already laboring. Don't know what to think of that now...

[RomanLini]

The long spindle in the 65mm diameter is usually sold as the 1.5kW model.

Is it a 240v motor you have? That would have much reduced amps and reduced power when running from a 120v mains and 120v VFD.

A 0.1" DOC in hardwood at 80 IPM and 20000 RPM is not a big cut for a 1500 Watt spindle... Maybe your cutting bit is *really* blunt?

[aarggh]

I've used my 800w spindle for machining heavy aluminium blocks, and numerous bits of soft and hard woods, and it just chews through it as long as the bit is sharp. As suggested it sounds like a setting problem, as even at 0.8kw, and especially at 1.5kw, it should plow through anything you throw at it.

cheers,
Ian

[JerryBurks]

....even at 0.8kw, and especially at 1.5kw, it should plow through anything you throw at it.....

That is encouraging. I will buy a new bit and try again, maybe also with different lumber.

....Is it a 240v motor you have? That would have much reduced amps and reduced power when running from a 120v mains and 120v VFD.....

It is one of the regular Huangyang VFDs that is hooked up to 240 V (1-phase). Looking up the manual I noticed in one-phase mode they recommend using the R and T terminals and I am using R and S. Can not imagine it makes a difference but another thing to try.

JB

[hub]

That is encouraging. I will buy a new bit and try again, maybe also with different lumber.



It is one of the regular Huangyang VFDs that is hooked up to 240 V (1-phase). Looking up the manual I noticed in one-phase mode they recommend using the R and T terminals and I am using R and S. Can not imagine it makes a difference but another thing to try.

JB

You wouldn't have a PDF manual link to your VFD? Without the manual, its hard to give advice.

[ger21]

I don't think it's the bit. If the bit was dull enough to stall your spindle, it would be burning like crazy.

[ger21]

Also, at 80ipm, 10,000-12,000 would greatly increase bit life.

[hub]

I don't think it's the bit. If the bit was dull enough to stall your spindle, it would be burning like crazy.

I agree

[louieatienza]

Methinks, however, that you will probably outgrow your spindle, as your machine is probably capable of pushing a way larger spindle... So maybe good as a secondary or engraving spindle, but with all the potential power your machine has, why saddle it with a smallish spindle?

[hub]

Methinks, however, that you will probably outgrow your spindle, as your machine is probably capable of pushing a way larger spindle... So maybe good as a secondary or engraving spindle, but with all the potential power your machine has, why saddle it with a smallish spindle?

1.5kW spindle is small? Yes, if using a large mill for cuttimg steel for example..
But for wood & aluminium, it's not that small IMO.

[ger21]

A Porter Cable 690 (rated at 1-3/4HP) is only 1.3KW.

A 1.5KW spindle should be comparable to any 2 to 2-1/4HP handheld router.
It should have enough power to cut through 3/4" plywood in 1 pass at 80ipm with a 1/2" bit.

[louieatienza]

A Porter Cable 690 (rated at 1-3/4HP) is only 1.3KW.

A 1.5KW spindle should be comparable to any 2 to 2-1/4HP handheld router.
It should have enough power to cut through 3/4" plywood in 1 pass at 80ipm with a 1/2" bit.

I thought it was .8kW? Which would be about 1HP, about the power of a trim router...

[JerryBurks]

I thought it was .8kW? Which would be about 1HP, about the power of a trim router...

Well, as mentioned earlier I am not sure. I ordered this as 0.8kW spindle but got one with the slightly longer body (65x210mm) that normally sells as 1.5kW.

But the performance is disappointing and from the feedback I get here it should be anyway better. I will double check if I made a mistake in the zillion VFD settings or what else may be wrong. I will also check the voltage output of the VFD. It might be defective, after all.

[Zaggy]

Hi,

You should look for a parameter named "Control Mode" on Fuling VFD. By default it's set on V/F control (Voltage/Frequency) and that's without any sensing of load.
You need to set it to Speed sensorless vector control, a closed loop sensorless measurment system that monitors the load and adjusts Frequency/Voltage/Current to keep the RPM.

Your can also adjust parameters describing the max voltage for the max frequency. If you need high torque for a low rotation speed, it's possible but you need to increase voltage and limit frequency.
I usually limit my 1.5kW 2-poles 24krpm to 10krpm with carbide or even 4krpm with HSS end mills and have no problem with aluminium and no rpm loss

[JerryBurks]

Hi,

You should look for a parameter named "Control Mode" on Fuling VFD. ..........

Thanks, I looked today for that parameter but I don't have the Fuling but the Huanyang one. Could not find that Control Mode there.

Any idea if the Huanyang VFD has a similar setting?

[BurkleyP]

1.5kW spindle is small? Yes, if using a large mill for cuttimg steel for example..
But for wood & aluminium, it's not that small IMO.

Agreed. Definitely not 'small.' The bridgeports that my go-to machinist uses pull 1.5kW rms. He barely breaks a sweat peeling away at Kovar, but my space heater radiates that much power. but torque is where it really counts.

Of course that's not to say a high torque or power spindle will make things trivial. At any reasonable feed rate a machines rigidity can make a big difference for spindle load, and things can become especially hairy depending on the material.

Depending on how the bamboo is treated the strands can either be as stiff and crystalized as sugar cubes, or bind like a blending a hairbrush in a bowl of sand. The material is effectively a composite because of the way it grows (like rebar in concrete), and that's where its strength comes from. In bamboo that's been well heat treated, the layers will snap away as easily as your brand new carbide end mill, but stock that's not been tempered, dried or pressed in the ideal combination will have strands that linger many rotations longer than the finer material of the body. This can cause a lot of grabbing that can overwhelm a spindle that doesn't have a lot of low-end torque (this is the case for many like mine that don't have gearboxes).

Assuming you've got a material problem on your hands, I'd suggest playing with good ol' speeds and feeds (sorry...I hate it when people say that). Materials with complicated internal structure tend to be fussier about the sweet-spot. The strands will (much more) quickly overwhelm your cutter under excessive feed, but if the feed is too shallow they'll dangle free and can curl up around your cutter until the heat compounds the problem.

If your minimum rpm is too high, you may want to consider low-flute cutters for roughing (single or double), and consider the flute angle when setting your feed. My machine isn't equipped with this, but some pressurized air for active chip removal could go a long way.

[dharmic]

Be careful when comparing high speed Chinese spindles to the more solid metal machines that run slow. Remember that your power rating = torque * RPM so a motor topping out at 24,000 RPM only gives you a quarter of the torque of a 6,000 RPM motor at the same power rating.

[wizard]

A couple of things to add to what has already been said.

1. Make use of a spreadsheet or other application for tabular data. Record every parameter listed in your manual and the value it is set to from the factory along with the configuration changes you made. For example columns for a parameter description, the address of the parameter, the factory defaults, your initial configuration value, a column for the current value and a comment field. You may not need all the columns depending upon the specifics of your drive.

This sort of setup sheet will do a couple of things for you. One it becomes a reference for a particular installation. Two it allows you to share your setup information in a clean way. Finally the mental activity of writing down all these parameters will highlight errors you may have made.

2. Do your initial testing on well understood materials. This makes communications a bit easier as in this case many of us have never machined bamboo. In general even a trim router ought to be able to handle the cut you describe so I'm thinking you have a setup,error with the drive.

3. Never assume a value is good enough! Verify the rated amperage of the motor, service factor and whatever else applies. Amperage is torque and as such you can loose considerable power if the current is being limited some how.