[jid2]

If you havent tried a new printer cable you should.

[VaderSpade]

Tormach 1100 continues to fail - YouTube

Tormach gave me a L-O-N-G list of things to check and I’ve checked most of them, but some things on the list require that I run program after program trying to get this mill to fail under one setting or another. I’ve been at this for 8-10 hours a day for days. Not what I signed up for when I bought this mill.

One thing I was ask to do was to run some programs with no power to the spindle. The idea being electronic noise from the spindle was causing the problem. I don’t know how you would fix that problem (kind of need the spindle running for most programs) but I gave it a try.

A lot of the failures are hit and miss with no rhyme or reason, but the mill has failed six times in a row while running a long (1,200+ lines) programs. These six failures always come at the same point while returning to zero after the last tight moves. I don’t see how that can be un-stable electricity???

To hopefully save time I wrote a short program (330 lines) that ends with the same tight moves in the corner and then the return to zero. I ran this program over and over with and without the spindle powered up. No failures, thinking it might be something over heating I ran it again and again to simulate the long runs of the longer programs that failed. No luck, I couldn’t get it to fail. So much for my attempt to save time.

Then I started to think maybe I wiggled the right wire while preforming some of the other test I was ask to do?? Was the problem solved??

I loaded a long program and sure enough it failed at the end.

These are the only failures that are repeatable, as soon as I think things will be alright and start trying to do REAL work the mill will fail.
Unless I find a definitive problem and fix it I will NEVER have confidence in this mill.

Although it failed about the same place you can see in this video the failure was a little different. In the last video the failure started with some little thumps right at the end of the run and the mill stopped about three inches from zero while reading zero on the DRO.
This time no indication, no small thumps at the end, just one big stall and the mill stopped about 2 inches from zero while reading zeros on the DRO.

I can’t go on just taking blind shots in the dark that take hours from my life while my real work suffers.

I guess I will run a long program without the spindle running to see if it will fail, that will take hours and really won’t tell me anything if it fails to fail. Do I just keep running it over and over until it does fail???

I’m running on the house electricity now, and rates triple if I go over my baseline all while producing NOTHING!!!

[ImagineRobots]

Tormach 1100 continues to fail - YouTube

Tormach gave me a L-O-N-G list of things to check and I’ve checked most of them, but some things on the list require that I run program after program trying to get this mill to fail under one setting or another. I’ve been at this for 8-10 hours a day for days. Not what I signed up for when I bought this mill.

snip....

I can’t go on just taking blind shots in the dark that take hours from my life while my real work suffers.

I guess I will run a long program without the spindle running to see if it will fail, that will take hours and really won’t tell me anything if it fails to fail. Do I just keep running it over and over until it does fail???

I’m running on the house electricity now, and rates triple if I go over my baseline all while producing NOTHING!!!

I used to think the safe bet was to go with a Tormach over something like a Syil or Sieg CNC. As a potential customer I'm thinking twice about purchasing a machine from them. I don't think it's fair for you to have spent $20k on a machine that is essentially a door stop. I recommend you finish the check list that Tormach gave you. If the problem still isn't resolved then seriously consider returning it or contacting a lawyer.

[photomankc]

Same here. This gives me second thoughts but I also understand there aren't any 10 or 15K machines that come with on-site service, but having no recourse but to go on futzing forever or pay thousands to return it is pretty off-putting.

Vader that sounds for all the world like a stepper stall out where it goes on making noise but not moving. Will Tormach allow you to alter the top speed and acceleration? If you say run the longer programs with the the max feedrate overridden to say 50% does it still happen, I assume Mach allows you to do that? I couldn't blame you for wanting to stomp puppies at this point.

[philbur]

If the whole 1,200 line code causes a repeatable failure and the last 330 lines never causes a failure then it is potentially relevant to now exactly what piece of code causes the failure. You can quite easily find this point by a process called a half interval search, which is probably self explanatory

Phil

To hopefully save time I wrote a short program (330 lines) that ends with the same tight moves in the corner and then the return to zero. I ran this program over and over with and without the spindle powered up. No failures, thinking it might be something over heating I ran it again and again to simulate the long runs of the longer programs that failed. No luck, I couldn’t get it to fail. So much for my attempt to save time.

Then I started to think maybe I wiggled the right wire while preforming some of the other test I was ask to do?? Was the problem solved??

I loaded a long program and sure enough it failed at the end.

[philbur]

This may have been answered, but has the code that causes repeatable failure been run on another machine.

Phil

[VaderSpade]

If that were the only failure, but the mill fails randomly with programs written by different software. The long program is (so far) the only repeatable failure. It is very possible I have more than one problem.

[VaderSpade]

This may have been answered, but has the code that causes repeatable failure been run on another machine.

Phil

No, but I have sent other code that has failed to Tormach and several other helpful people that have run those programs without any problems.

I can send it to you if you want to try it out

[rowbare]

Is your Mach license in the right location? I think Mach will only run 500 lines without a license. As I recall the behavior when it hits the limit is bizarre.

bob

[VaderSpade]

Is your Mach license in the right location? I think Mach will only run 500 lines without a license. As I recall the behavior when it hits the limit is bizarre.

bob

We've tried two computers, but the same license was used with both. It seemed to be acepted just fine, but who knows at this point???

[philbur]

You can check if you have the demo or full version. Look in help - about mach.

Phil

We've tried two computers, but the same license was used with both. It seemed to be acepted just fine, but who knows at this point???

[rowbare]

So the license info shows up in the About dialog?

Your description of running a short program successfully and choking on the larger one reminded me of something that happened to me once after I had installed a new version and forgot to move the license file.

It was worth a shot...

bob

[philbur]

One problem at a time.

As previous, the first step in fault finding is to achieve failure on demand. You appear to now have that. I would possibly be willing to run that code, depending how long the run is.

Phil

No, but I have sent other code that has failed to Tormach and several other helpful people that have run those programs without any problems.

I can send it to you if you want to try it out

[VaderSpade]

It's just 3 or 4 hours.

[VaderSpade]

So the license info shows up in the About dialog?

Your description of running a short program successfully and choking on the larger one reminded me of something that happened to me once after I had installed a new version and forgot to move the license file.

It was worth a shot...

bob

I will check but the mill has failed on short programs, but those failures were not repeatable. It seems the longer the program the more likely it is to fail.

[philbur]

Personal message sent.

Phil

I can send it to you if you want to try it out

[VaderSpade]

Just to clear up any confusion when I was talking about 1,200+ lines I was talking about lines cut not lines of code.

My Mach license seems fine.

[mactec54]

VaderSpade

I would like to see your program, I'm not sure the reason you are having the machine return to zero, is this part zero or machine zero

I think you have a program problem,Post even just a small piece of your program were this happens would do, You can save it as text & post it here

[Phishaholic]

I seem to remember someone having a problem similar to yours. It wound up being the coupler that connects the axis drive motor to the ball-screw being a little loose. An easy way to check is to mark the shafts and coupler with a paint marker and run the program, when you get the bump stop and check your marks. If they are not aligned you found a problem. If they are good then it’s something else.

Larry O

[VaderSpade]

VaderSpade

I would like to see your program, I'm not sure the reason you are having the machine return to zero, is this part zero or machine zero

I think you have a program problem,Post even just a small piece of your program were this happens would do, You can save it as text & post it here

Part zero. I need my programs to return to zero so another part can be put in the jig and cut identical to the last without re-zeroing.

Here's the last few lines from a program that has failed to return to zero.

Z0.2000
G0X0.0001Y3.7457
G1Z-0.0252F20.0
X0.0096Y3.7552Z-0.0282
X0.0192Y3.7648Z-0.0281
X0.0287Y3.7743Z-0.0257
X0.0478Y3.7934Z-0.0285
X0.0510Y3.7966Z-0.0283
Z0.2000
G0X0.0445Y3.7967
G1Z-0.0284F20.0
X0.0381Y3.7903Z-0.0280
X0.0286Y3.7808Z-0.0250
X0.0095Y3.7617Z-0.0276
X0.0031Y3.7553Z-0.0275
Z0.2000
G0X0.0030Y3.7618
G1Z-0.0264F20.0
X0.0125Y3.7714Z-0.0258
X0.0189Y3.7777Z-0.0269
X0.0253Y3.7841Z-0.0252
X0.0380Y3.7968Z-0.0295
Z0.2000
G0X0.0315Y3.7970
G1Z-0.0308F20.0
X0.0220Y3.7874Z-0.0269
X0.0156Y3.7811Z-0.0286
X0.0092Y3.7747Z-0.0254
X0.0029Y3.7683Z-0.0260
Z0.2000
G0X0.0027Y3.7748
G1Z-0.0256F20.0
X0.0123Y3.7844Z-0.0276
X0.0250Y3.7971Z-0.0288
Z0.2000
G0X0.0185Y3.7972
G1Z-0.0284F20.0
X0.0026Y3.7813Z-0.0278
Z0.2000
G0X0.0025Y3.7878
G1Z-0.0284F20.0
X0.0120Y3.7974Z-0.0278
Z0.2000
G0X0.0055Y3.7975
G1Z-0.0279F20.0
X0.0023Y3.7943Z-0.0287
Z0.2000
G0Z0.2000
G0X0.0000Y0.0000
M30