[eaglemike]

Anyone running a TM-1P, or TM-2P? Right now I have a Super MinMill and a VF2 (1998), I'm wanting to add another machine, partially due to the stress it causes if one of them is down. (I also have other older machines w/o changers). I'm wondering about how the TM series and the standard MinMill hold up. I'm in SoCal, and the Haas guys are pretty good, but if they go down it's never at a good time. Some of the prices on used machines are high enough I'm looking to go new. I like these smaller machines in case due to power and air requirements. Thanks for your feedback!

[underthetire]

We have a couple tms, they run ok, but certainly not any kind of heavy duty machine by a long shot.

[gizmo_454]

We have had our standard Mini Mill for almost 6 years now. It has to be the best machine in the shop. Rock solid, and virtually bulletproof. I see you are looking at the TM-1P, TM-2P, and the Mini Mill 2. I have to assume that you are looking at them because you want more table travel, at a more economical price than the larger VF series. Be careful, though. While the standard Mini Mill works well for us in a job shop environment, running small parts in quantities from 1 to 5000+, it may not be suited to what you are doing or used to. Especially in the spindle department.

While the spindle itself is virtually identical from the Mini Mill and TM's, to the VF series up to 7500 RPM, (possibly up to 10K), the motor and drives are worlds apart. Your Super Mini Mill and VF2 are likely both 15HP vector drive machines. The machines you are looking at are only 7.5HP machines, and are not vector drives.

Rigidity wise, our Mini Mill is not bad. Especially for the small parts we do. I might be worried, though, about going to the Mini Mill 2. The base and column look the same as the Mini Mill, but they are adding more X axis travel. That MAY pose some rigidity issues with multiple vises on the table while overhanging one side of the base.

Realistically, I would push for a VF1 in place of a Mini Mill 2. For the little extra you'd pay, you are getting:

30HP spindle vs. 7.5HP
8100 RPM vs. 6000 RPM
20" vs. 14" Z axis travel
20 Tool carousel vs. 10 Tool carousel
1000 IPM rapids vs. 600 IPM rapids
55 gal. sump vs. 24 gal. sump.
Rigid tap standard vs Rigid tap add on option

These are just some. I think the only way I would buy a TM or Mini Mill 2 over a VF would be if it was going in a garage setting, to be run off a phase converter.

I hope this helps some. Happy hunting!

Mike

[eaglemike]

Thanks very much for the feedback.

There is a chance I might close the shop in a few years and move the mill to a garage. Thus the choices......

My VF-2 is a gearbox machine, so it's quite a bit stronger by comparison. Most of the parts I make are fairly small. I'm careful not to overstress the SMM, only run aluminum on it since new, usually tools 1/2 or less. I hadn't realized the current MM didn't have a the good spindle. The thought of a new VF-2 is pretty attractive. Maybe I should sell the current one and just get a new one. It's really been pretty good the 6 years or so I've had it. It's also nice to be able to get parts the next day, tech support, etc.

It's great to hear the Minimill is so reliable.

Either Mini or TM can be set up single phase. I used to run a converter back when I started in the garage.

[behindpropeller]

If you are in the SMM2 travels you should look at hurco. Supposedly they have a single phase VM10 coming out at some point.

The problem with HAAS is the options add up pretty quick. Seems like the most bang for buck HAAS at this point is a VM3.

[eaglemike]

Thanks!

VM3 is a very good machine. A little too big for what I want right now.

I spent some time looking for prices on Hurco VM10, souldn't find a list price. I'm not comfortable about that.... also made offshore. Since I've had several of my parts cloned overseas, I try to keep what I can here in the States.

Looks like the TM-P and the minimills both get a vector drive spindle. Tough call. I don't know anyone local running a TM. I asked one of the service guys from Haas about the TM and he's not familiar with it. Probably go with the MM2..... still open though.

[underthetire]

I will say this about hurcos, they keep us real busy in maintenance department. We have moris, haas, makino, mazak, deckels, and other euro machines, and out of all those most time spent repairing hurcos by at least 3 to 1 of the others. In fact, I don't think in recent memory any of the haas's have even had a service tag turned in.

[John Crawford]

I have a 2007 TM-1 with the 4000 RPM spindle. The spindle assembly has a pretty good resonant frequency around 200 Hz, which happens to be the excitation frequency generated by a 3 flute end mill at 4000 RPM. When I was using a 3 flute finishing end mill the spindle assembly would vibrate a lot when making cuts in the X direction. I switched to a 3 flute rougher and the vibration completely disappeared and I was able to double the feed rate and increase the radial depth of cut by a factor of 3. Since the spindle is common with other Haas mills and I haven't heard anyone complain about a spindle vibration problem on those machines, it's likely that the source of the vibration is elsewhere, possibly the frame that holds the spindle.

This is the only complaint I have with the mill. Maybe someday I'll look into the problem a bit more and see if I can identify the source of the vibration and come up with some modifications that will fix it, but an easier resolution would be to get a VF-2. I'll have to start buying some lottery tickets.

[eaglemike]

Thanks for all the info!

It looks like the current TM-P line has the 6K vector drive spindle. This might be better than the 4K version or might not. The rapids are faster in the TM-P series.
Happy Friday!

[miller04]

if you sell vf-2, could be interested, where you located?

[eaglemike]

if you sell vf-2, could be interested, where you located?

I'm in San Diego, but don't think I'm going to sell it. I need to decide what to do with a couple of other machines. I have a running YCM16 30 taper with full 3 axis Anilam G control, a dead YCM 40 w/M control, and a running Machining center G control but tool changer isn't reliable. This one was built in Camarillo Ca under the Vulcan name. If I knew the right guy that would be a very good machine. Low hours, heavy iron box way, 15 tools, cat40. I'll figure out in the next couple of weeks. Still have doc's for all 3 machines.
all the best,
Mike

[eaglemike]

Update:
I placed the order for a MiniMill 2. I think it's the best compromise for me. I'm limited in available power, so this one is good. It's about 2 weeks until delivery. Some of the prices for used Haas machines seem a little high. While the service calls can be pricier than I like, they are there in 2 days or less pretty much every time. They offer terrific technical support. This has saved me money on service calls a few times. Rigid tapping, high pressure coolant, 20 ATC.

[helocat]

I have a 2007 TM-1 with the 4000 RPM spindle. The spindle assembly has a pretty good resonant frequency around 200 Hz, which happens to be the excitation frequency generated by a 3 flute end mill at 4000 RPM. When I was using a 3 flute finishing end mill the spindle assembly would vibrate a lot when making cuts in the X direction. I switched to a 3 flute rougher and the vibration completely disappeared and I was able to double the feed rate and increase the radial depth of cut by a factor of 3. Since the spindle is common with other Haas mills and I haven't heard anyone complain about a spindle vibration problem on those machines, it's likely that the source of the vibration is elsewhere, possibly the frame that holds the spindle.

This is the only complaint I have with the mill. Maybe someday I'll look into the problem a bit more and see if I can identify the source of the vibration and come up with some modifications that will fix it, but an easier resolution would be to get a VF-2. I'll have to start buying some lottery tickets.

John, I have a 05' TM-1 and I edited the spindle speed up to 6000RPM and the rapids up to 400, both like the TM-1P. Works outstanding. Love the 400IPM rapids with tool changes. Much faster. Also finishing aluminum the extra 2000rpm comes in handy.

Update:
I placed the order for a MiniMill 2. I think it's the best compromise for me. I'm limited in available power, so this one is good. It's about 2 weeks until delivery. Some of the prices for used Haas machines seem a little high. While the service calls can be pricier than I like, they are there in 2 days or less pretty much every time. They offer terrific technical support. This has saved me money on service calls a few times. Rigid tapping, high pressure coolant, 20 ATC.

Great to hear they are getting back to only a few weeks out. Completely agree with you the used prices are crazy right now. New sounds much better, especially when we are talking with in $5k. Enjoy the new iron!

Mark

[John Crawford]

John, I have a 05' TM-1 and I edited the spindle speed up to 6000RPM and the rapids up to 400, both like the TM-1P. Works outstanding. Love the 400IPM rapids with tool changes. Much faster. Also finishing aluminum the extra 2000rpm comes in handy.

Mark,

I see you too have a TM-1 and use OneCNC. I've thought about increasing spindle speed but haven't done it yet. Running at 6000 RPM would avoid the 200 Hz resonance problem I've had, plus it would allow me to use smaller diameter cutting tools (which are cheaper) and still keep the speed at the flutes where it needs to be. I recently made a shield that wraps around the table, similar to the one that Haas sells but a bit taller, so this might help contain a broken tool at high RPM.

Thanks for suggesting this.

John Crawford

[behindpropeller]

Update:
I placed the order for a MiniMill 2. I think it's the best compromise for me. I'm limited in available power, so this one is good. It's about 2 weeks until delivery. Some of the prices for used Haas machines seem a little high. While the service calls can be pricier than I like, they are there in 2 days or less pretty much every time. They offer terrific technical support. This has saved me money on service calls a few times. Rigid tapping, high pressure coolant, 20 ATC.

Surprised you didn't get a probe

[helocat]

Mark,

I see you too have a TM-1 and use OneCNC. I've thought about increasing spindle speed but haven't done it yet. Running at 6000 RPM would avoid the 200 Hz resonance problem I've had, plus it would allow me to use smaller diameter cutting tools (which are cheaper) and still keep the speed at the flutes where it needs to be. I recently made a shield that wraps around the table, similar to the one that Haas sells but a bit taller, so this might help contain a broken tool at high RPM.

Thanks for suggesting this.

John Crawford

Love OneCNC. Still learning as I go but it kicks it out of the park. Getting ready to try my hand with the 4th. The taller walls would be nice. As for tool breakage normally they just fall over and drop down in the pan when I snap one off. As for shrapnel, I am more worried about a 7lbs block of material getting free from the vice!

Mark

[KenFoulks]

As for shrapnel, I am more worried about a 7lbs block of material getting free from the vice!

A lighter piece of aluminum is much more dangerous. I put a large ding in a VF-3SS right-side wall.

[helocat]

A lighter piece of aluminum is much more dangerous. I put a large ding in a VF-3SS right-side wall.

Ooofh. "Shudder" The smaller part makes since.

Mark

[John Crawford]

Love OneCNC. Still learning as I go but it kicks it out of the park. Getting ready to try my hand with the 4th. The taller walls would be nice. As for tool breakage normally they just fall over and drop down in the pan when I snap one off. As for shrapnel, I am more worried about a 7lbs block of material getting free from the vice!

I like OneCNC as well. Good functionality and tech support at a very reasonable price. However, I don't have any experience with other CAM software so my opinion may not carry much weight.

I've broken a couple cutting tools on my TM-1 and nothing dramatic happened, but I don't take anything for granted with respect to shop safety. I have hopes of making it to my old age without any significant flak scars and with all my bodily appendages still attached and fully functional.

[gizmo_454]

...I don't take anything for granted with respect to shop safety. I have hopes of making it to my old age without any significant flak scars and with all my bodily appendages still attached and fully functional.

Me too! :cheers:

Mike