[marksaus]

Hi guys,

At the moment I do not have the cash, and have access to a SCM Tech Z2, but at some point I will want to own a CNC machining center...

I am researching commercial brands, I would like to share my impressions so far and see what input you guys may have, and if you know any brands I am unaware of. I work with solid wood mainly, some furniture, and mainly non repetitive jobs.

- SCM: The machines are OK enough, but the native software they use isn't the best, and they don't seem to be very up to date, or interested in being up to date. Therefore, I think that if I go with an SCM machine, I would have to invest some time in learning to use and adapt other software solutions.

- Biesse: I have not yet spoken to them, nor used a Biesse, they seem to be more rugged, definitely look better, but I have no idea about their software.

- Felder: Although I get the feeling they haven't been making CNC for as long, I own several Felder machines, and my experience with their customer service and machines themselves is excellent. From what I have spoken with my sales representative, they are making a continued effort to develop this branch, keep the software up to date, research, and they are my strongest candidate for now.

Any input much appreciated!

[underthetire]

You must be looking at hobby type machines?

[marksaus]

You must be looking at hobby type machines?

Why do you say that? I make my living woodworking. If you are disoriented because I didn't mention any brands that are common in the US, I should have pointed out that I am in Spain, these are the brands that I have been in touch with in trade fairs. I am obviously open to American brands, if getting their machines in Spain is an option.

[ger21]

I don't think there are any american brands in that class of machines.
i work mainly with sheet goods, and currently use a Morbidelli. It's a good machine. Here in the US, the Morbidelli and SCM both appear to use the same software. Not sure if it's the same elsewhere?
I've never used a Biesse.
From what I've seen, I'd recommend using CAD and CAM software that's not tied to the machine, especially if it's one off parts. While the software that comes with these machines can have decent parametric abilities, which is good for cabinet parts, I'd always recommend a good CAD/CAM package.

I've also used a Masterwood for over 10 years, and it was a very reliable machine.

[txcncman]

Avoid CMS (not SCM). Their North American service sucks swamp slime.

[marksaus]

I don't think there are any american brands in that class of machines.

Ok, you guys are making me curious, hehe. Do you mean that the kind of 100.000€ machines I'm looking at are entry level compared with American machines? Any links or videos you can provide? I'm very impressed with what the Felder/SCM/Biesse machines I have seen can do, I'm curious as to what other machines could do to make these seem "amateur".

[ger21]

No, I mean that there are no american companies building those higher end machining centers. Most American made machines tend to be more basic routers in lower price ranges. In my almost 20 years in the industry, the major machine companies all tend to be Italian.

I don't know exactly what your needs are but here's one American manufacturer.
CNC Routers, CNC Mills, & CNC Maching Center Product Line by CR Onsrud

[marksaus]

Oh Okay, I get it now :-) I'm glad to see that someone with experience also finds that most brands are Italian, I thought I might be in the dark. Have you checked out Felder? I think they are going to beat Italian brands soon, if not already...

[ger21]

I thought Felder just made sliding table saws.
I just looked at their site, and they do look good. Made in Austria. I used to use a Schelling saw made in Austria, which was a very good machine. I'll definitely look at Felder when we're due for an upgrade in 5 years or so.

[david021688]

good ideas

[marksaus]

I'm glad I discovered them to you. I'm not too experienced in CNC, but I can say that for traditional machines (table saws, spindle moulders, planers, thicknessers, etc) they are by far the best brand, at least in Europe. Hopefully before you need to update in 5 years, I will own a Felder CNC and be able to tell you if they're good or not, hehe.

[underthetire]

Why do you say that? I make my living woodworking. If you are disoriented because I didn't mention any brands that are common in the US, I should have pointed out that I am in Spain, these are the brands that I have been in touch with in trade fairs. I am obviously open to American brands, if getting their machines in Spain is an option.

Cause you listed under CNC machining centers. That means metal cutting.

[ger21]

Cause you listed under CNC machining centers. That means metal cutting.

No, it doesn't. This is a subforum of the woodworking forums, for woodworking machining centers.
These are machines that typically have multiple router spindles, ATC's, 10-20 vertical drilling spindles, grooving saws, and horizontal drills.

[jweinhold]

The company I work for has 7 SCM Routech's (one 5 axis) 2 Thermwoods and one C. R. Onsrud 5 axis. I am involved in programming maintaining all of them. If I were spending my own money the choice would be really clear and really easy CR Onsrud!

[Volkhard]

Over the years I have owned 3 Biesse Pod and Rail machining centers, starting with an used Rover 13S. I upgraded to an Rover 20 and later on to an Rover A. Staying with the brand tells you, I was a happy customer. Their support is very responsive and they never left me stranded, even supported me fully on the first machine I bought used (not from them).

Their Software Biesse Works worked very well for my purposes (panel processing) and it is fairly intuitive to use. The machines are rugged, solid and well build. I had to move my shop twice and moving and re-installing the machine was not a problem at all. I am retired now, my company closed but I know my Rover A is providing a good service every day to the company I sold it to. I can't say much about the other brands you are asking for. If I would have to buy a new machine again, I know I would be in good hands with Biesse.

Good luck with your decission and keep in mind, any machine is only as good as the people behind the brand.