[azam1959]

Hi,

I had four very very different careers in my working life but non of the work I have done so far has created any thing which I can touch or feel. Now that I am retired and have some time I want to do something different. I started with woodworking but soon realize that it will be much safer if stay away from the blades. Not sure if CNC will be safer.

So here I am with no background or knowledge about CNC or milling. Long long long time ago I bought the car and then I learned to drive and am doing the same thing again ... I bought DemonX to keep myself busy with constructive hobbie and learn something new and do some modeling work although at this point I seriously doubt that any model I make will ever see the light of day.

I will be very blunt, this thread is for me to get the help. As I said, I don't know anything about cnc or milling and I am hoping that experts on the zone will help this poor guy.

Here is what I have so far
1) Mach3 on dedicated PC which is talking to DMM BOB which in turn control four servos and vfd. I have also tested the link b/w vfd and spindle ... so I can control four motor's on/off, speed and direction from Mac3 and also spindle power and speed from Mach3.

2) I have six casters. I think I will use four for now. In my original order there were siz legs.

3) First shipment of three boxes from XZero. Two more boxes are on their way and George told me that he will ship at least one more box tomorrow. I do not have anything from XZero yet which I can use to start the assembly process.

4) I changed my order from 110 inch to 60 inch and XZero is out of 60 inch tubes. Oh well, I will have to make hard wood table with the steel legs and corner I will get. It will be interesting to see how final table comes out. George advised me to go to metal work shop in my area and get the tubes but few things are not that easy for me.

Of course I know the rules here .... there will be pictures but .... i have old iPhone which I will be using ... so quality will be so so. Oh one thing more, English is my fourth language, there will be mistakes, I still think and dream in some other language.

PS: Doing some experiments with picture attachments. It will get better.

[amasters]

Welcome Azam,

You are not alone here. If I can speak for some of the others here, I would say we can try and help you through it.

I just received my Raptor32x40 from George in Jan this year. I basically have the mechanical parts all put together and now in the process of getting all the electrical and controls assembled and working. In a way, what you have completed is the opposite to what I have completed.

I also purchased a table kit from George, well, just the corners and legs. I had to order the steel square tubes online since there really are no "local" metal shops to speak of around here. I purchased my square tubes from Allmetalsinc.com The nice thing about all metals is that they will cut the tubes to the nearest 1/16 of an inch for you, and their prices were good as well.

On the servo, which spindle motor did you get? I have the Teknomotor 2.0Kw which is a 2.7Hp spindle. Have not fired it up yet.

[azam1959]

Amasters,

Thanks for the sharing the link. Instead of mixing wood and metal and worry about different expansion properties I will just get the tubes from this web site. I hope they do make a hole at the end for corner plate bolt. If I get the router table foot print info, I will put in the order tomorrow, any advise?

We do have same spindle and it runs very smoothly. Do not forget to change the config to 220V, mine came with 440V configured. This is a good buy.

All,
Do any body know the 60 inch machine foot print. Do not want to make a bigger table and it will be a shame if table is few inches short.
Thanks

Welcome Azam,

You are not alone here. If I can speak for some of the others here, I would say we can try and help you through it.

I just received my Raptor32x40 from George in Jan this year. I basically have the mechanical parts all put together and now in the process of getting all the electrical and controls assembled and working. In a way, what you have completed is the opposite to what I have completed.

I also purchased a table kit from George, well, just the corners and legs. I had to order the steel square tubes online since there really are no "local" metal shops to speak of around here. I purchased my square tubes from Allmetalsinc.com The nice thing about all metals is that they will cut the tubes to the nearest 1/16 of an inch for you, and their prices were good as well.

On the servo, which spindle motor did you get? I have the Teknomotor 2.0Kw which is a 2.7Hp spindle. Have not fired it up yet.

[azam1959]

Andy,
Apology for not seeing your name at the end.

I will get the two L channel from them to reinforce the table. I think aluminium is easy to work with but not sure if it is as strong as steel. I will have to make the holes in the channel to screw them with the profile and attach the table top.

For table, did you get the perforated tube?

Amasters,

Thanks for the sharing the link. Instead of mixing wood and metal and worry about different expansion properties I will just get the tubes from this web site. I hope they do make a hole at the end for corner plate bolt. If I get the router table foot print info, I will put in the order tomorrow, any advise?

We do have same spindle and it runs very smoothly. Do not forget to change the config to 220V, mine came with 440V configured. This is a good buy.

All,
Do any body know the 60 inch machine foot print. Do not want to make a bigger table and it will be a shame if table is few inches short.
Thanks

[amasters]

Azam,

I don't think they put holes in the tubes. I did not see that as an option on their website so I figured I would have to drill the holes myself. I ordered the solid square tube 2"x2" x.125" wall thickness.

I saw the perforated tube, but I did not see anywhere how far apart the holes were and if you could get them to cut at a specific point between the holes. After that, trying to figure out how long to make the tubes while still having a hole line up with the corner brackets would make my head hurt.

[gio666]

Here is drawing of tubes for drilling holes

[gio666]

Foot print on 55x60 , is 55x62

[azam1959]

Andy and George,
Thanks. I will go with 2 inch square tube and hope I will be able to make few holes with drill press.

George,
Same vendor also sell L channel and I am sure there will savings if I order all L channel along with the tubing. These L channel will be used to reinforce the structure and will be attached to the end profile. Not sure if my band saw will be able to cut the channel so I have to be careful with the size I order. Length of end profile is 62 inch, how much is the depth, 3 inch?
I will also get a steel plate to put it under the cross moving member. It is 55 inch length, do you know the width?
Any recommendation on thickness of channel and plate for reinforcement?
I know I will have to make lot of holes on channel and plate to attach them with profile, table top and cross member, do aluminium is as stiff as steel. Can I get by with Aluminium reinforcement members?

Sorry too many questions but I did warn you in the beginning.

Regards,

[azam1959]

I forgot to mention in my first message ....

I am working with George to see the possibility of switching the profile which come with the machine and get a bigger profile. New profile has more height and more mass => more moment of inertia and it will greatly reduce the deflection (of course bigger profile is little expensive). I know that changing the profile will change the number of screws on the end plate, widening the channel on upright to slide on bigger profile, not even sure if end plate is wide enough to accommodate bigger profile and may be lot of other design changes which I am not even aware of. It is too late in the game and George is about to send the original profiles to me not sure if George will be able to switch the profile but he sounded very optimistic. I requested that if choice is b/w delaying the machine shipment or original profile, I will go with original profile and then I will reinforce the machine. If we are successful in putting in new profile it will save lot of time and energy by eliminating the reinforcement bars, plates and channels. For XZero ... I guess it will be good to sell the machine which does not need customer to worry about reinforcement and my machine may be a good case study.

Will keep this thread updated.

[azam1959]

Today's entry.

1) I did order the steel tube for the table. Ordered 4 55inch and 4 62inch tubes. This will allow me to make a bottom shelf to keep the control box. Both the shelves will be from hardwood and if more weight is needed I will put granite stone tiles on the shelves. Also planning to keep the control box on the bottom shelf instead of putting it on the wall. Tubes from link in Andy's message was 50% less expensive compared to one other place I called.

2) FedEx changed the expected delivery date to tomorrow for two boxes en-route to me, but it is OK. Nothing in the boxes coming tomorrow will help me to get started with the assembly. I am not planning to open the boxes till I get the structural parts.

3) I reminded George about the boxes he was going to send me today and asked for tracking number without any success. Actually latest promise I had from little over a week ago was that entire machine will be shipped by last Friday. Not surprising that it did not happen. Waiting for loooong.

4) George is waiting for price for bigger profile. Not sure why it take to get the price but I asked George, if he does not get the price by tonight, just pack the old profile and send it to me. I also have price delta threshold for bigger profile. I have already spent more then I thought it will take.

5) I did rough calculations and since I am not getting any electronics and tubing from George and my machine is now 60 inch instead of 110 inch, I think George owe me somewhere from 1500 to 2000. Hope George will return the balance to me tomorrow. I also hope George will ship entire machine tomorrow I don't know of any bottleneck and don't know of any reason why my machine can not be shipped tomorrow (if it is not already shipped).

Bottom line did not make much progress today except for ordering the tubing and waiting for promises made to be kept.

I will daily log my (lack of) progress.

[lgalla]

Azam glad to hear of your progress.:banana::banana:Understand the quote on the larger extrusion can take time.I always wanted to build a machine but it is probably better to buy from george and save time and money.Be patient quality takes time.
I will be following your progress as I also like the DMM and would like to hear your feedback.
Please update on delivery.

[azam1959]

Hi,
1) Got two packages from XZero today. Have not received any structural components yet to start the build process.

2) George got the price for 80x160 profile and he is able to integrate bigger profile in the design. Although I do not have the actual price difference but George told me that delta is not very significant. George is working on the numbers. I am not worried about bigger profile now that George has blessed it.

3) George will drop rest of the machine tomorrow am for shipment. George tried to explain me the shipment process but I did not quite get it, but I do understand that George work with somebody else for the shipment part. Person who is helping George with the shipment has some personnel issues and we are hopping that shipment will happen tomorrow but it may get delayed. George will share the tracking number as soon as he can.

4) Now the interesting part. George told me that with bigger profile 110 inch machine will be rock solid. Non of the 110 inch elements were cut for 60 inch table and based on George's recommendation and knowing the pride George has on his work, I am accepting 110 inch machine. This will also make this build thread more interesting. I hope it will work out but in case of deflection, I will need all the help to reinforce the machine.

5) I changed my order for tubing and getting four additional 62 inch tubing to accommodate bigger router table. This will make my table about 125 inch long (if I keep hard wood top projection to minimum). I do not have space issue in my basement and I can use additional space for monitor placement. Do XZero router table end support screwed in the table? If now, how router table is blocked for not slipping from the table? I do hear table do rock and dance during the cutting. If there are no screws, I guess I can create some kind of wooden blocks to stop router table from slipping the table. Too early to worry about this issue, I guess.

6) George tell me that one of the boxes I already got do have table corners. I guess I can start working on making bolt holes in the tube if tubes do arrive before machine. Do anybody know the size of hole I will need to bolt the tube to the table corner? Do George provide these bolts or I have to get a ride to hardware store? I am showing my ignore now, is there any special type of bolts I need or any machine bolt and screw will do the job. I may end up putting granite stone tiles on the table which put lot of sheer force on the bolts, I will need big bolts. Another question on the table, I do have woodworking bits, are metal working drill bits different? any pointer where I can get the bits to drill holes in 1/8 inch steel wall of tubes. I do have bench drill.

I will like to change the heading of this thread and change from 60 inch build to 120 inch build, is there any easy way to make this change?

I don't think there will be anything to report for next few days but I will be checking here if anybody have any input to my question about metal bit and bolts.... so bye for now. I will come back with more information in about a week.

Cheers

[amasters]

Azam,

I can answer question 6. You need a 13/32" drill bit. If you purchased the hardware (nuts and bolts) from George you will get 3/8-16 2.75" long bolts and nylon self locking hex nuts. If you did not, then head on down to the hardware store or go to somewhere like McMaster-Carr and order the nuts, bolts, and washers online. Bolts should be 3/8-16 2.75" long and grade 5 or better (medium strength) Zinc plated would be best. Zinc plateing for the nuts and washers also. The nylon locking nuts will also need to be low profile (low height). [See my thread on Tables for todays post]

Example McMaster parts;
bolts 91247A635
nuts 94945A217
washers 90108A417

[lgalla]

azam if you need any bolts I have tons of socket capscrews,hex,button etc.Mail me if interested

[azam1959]

Andy,
Thanks. I saw the text of your other post in email and will check it out for the pictures. How do you power code the tube? I am not looking for more work, is power coding for aesthetic reasons or does it have any functional value?

Igalla,
Thanks. I will take your offer at right time. Now I recall seeing hw bags on my invoice, I may be covered here.

azam if you need any bolts I have tons of socket capscrews,hex,button etc.Mail me if interested

[lgalla]

I think you are refering to powder coat which looks good.It is very late here I will give some details of powder coat to morrow

[gio666]

Azam,

I can answer question 6. You need a 13/32" drill bit. If you purchased the hardware (nuts and bolts) from George you will get 3/8-16 2.75" long bolts and nylon self locking hex nuts. If you did not, then head on down to the hardware store or go to somewhere like McMaster-Carr and order the nuts, bolts, and washers online. Bolts should be 3/8-16 2.75" long and grade 5 or better (medium strength) Zinc plated would be best. Zinc plateing for the nuts and washers also. The nylon locking nuts will also need to be low profile (low height). [See my thread on Tables for todays post]

Example McMaster parts;
bolts 91247A635
nuts 94945A217
washers 90108A417

Bolt kit is in the box there with corners

[azam1959]

Thanks George.

Bolt kit is in the box there with corners

[azam1959]

there was a discussion on other thread about 110 inch machine deflection. i did go to 80/20 tech toolkit (80/20 Design Tools - Tech Toolkit™ Introduction) to validate the claim that 110 inch machine will be rock solid with new profile (not that I doubt XZero's claim, I do not have anything better to do).

With 8016 profile (twice as big as 80x80, guess name standards have only four digit and official name is 8016 instead of 80160) and 400 lb of distributed load, deflection in the center of beam is 0.0271 inch. If I change the profile to 8080, deflection is 0.1707 (630% more !!!!). I do have to believe XZero claim.

Coming back to 400 lab weight assumption.... This means table has 800 labs and each beam is getting half. Seems like conservative calculation but considering 75 lb of point load in middle of the beam due to gentry (worst case scenario) along with aluminium table top and spoil board and building material, I think 400 lb may be good starting point.

Just for the sake of completeness, I want to mention that tool shows the deflection in both the orientation. Just want to mention the obvious that we want to keep the depth towards deflection. Keeping the beam flat, do increase the deflection from .03 to .1 inch, a verrrrry big jump and only marginal better than 8080 (George, I know it is obvious, but please make sure that design allow the right orientation of beam).

One more thing to complete the comparison b/w 60 and 110 inch machine. With 60 inch span and 300 lb (will not be exactly half due to gentry and work load) weight and 8080 profile, deflection is .021 inch compared to .0271 for 110 inch with 8016 profile. At this point, additional deflection at third decimal point does not bother me.

Before any flames, please understand that this is just a very rough calculation to get some idea on what I am getting in.

Regards,

[lgalla]

Anyone know what the tolerence is on flatness of 80/20 extrusions?
Do you have a drawing or rendering of the 110inch machine?What are the linear bearings?
Larry