[azam1959]

making very slow progress, guess it will take few more days to complete the stand. making holes in steel is not that difficult but i can see that drill is not designed for this job. all the screws are hand tight and once i put all the structural members, i will tight the screws. if i decide to paint the tubes, it will be done while they are on the stand. yup son is at home from college and getting help from him. one thing i will change, if i start over is to get lighter tubes.

[azam1959]

completed stand assembly today. stand leg and angles have good design and even a person with my experience is not able to screw up the stand. first impression of stand is very good and i think it is very sturdy. was short of few bolts but took a sample to local hw store and was able to find similar screws. if anybody is reading this log and want to make the stand, you may want to consider getting a single tubing piece for long span instead of two pieces. stand design will support single tubing piece from center leg.

XZero is shipping profile tomorrow, this will give me few days to rest and may be make wood shelf on the stand.

one thing more ... caster holders are from XZero and George pointed out the casters which will work with the cater holder. i think i paid $25/caster and am surprise with the weight rating and quality of casters. casters can also be used for leveling purposes. i think i saw similar casters on one web site selling for $85.

Cheers

[azam1959]

Looking at different options to reinforce the end profiles (George told me that he is sending them to Buffalo today and if previous experience is any indication, profile will be shipped from Buffalo on Monday and I should have them byThursday). I think I will go with aluminium with less than 2 lbs/ft weight.

First option is an angle Aluminum Angle 3 x 3 x 1/4 (Grade 6061) - Buy Small Quantities Online - Allmetalsinc.com issue is longest I can get is 96 inches. Will this be enough?

There will be compression on the top and tension on the bottom, shouldn't I be using a channel? Two issues here ... first is longest section I can get is 96 inches and second is I can get only 1.5 inch on top and 1.5 in for the bottom.
Aluminum Channel 3 x 1-1/2 x .258 (Grade 6061) - Buy Small Quantities Online - Allmetalsinc.com

Bottom line is instead of putting all the material on the top (3 inch), shouldn't I be distributing it both at the top and bottom (1.5 inch).

I can use some help with selection. Aluminium weight is manageable, price is affordable and I think I will be able to make the holes in aluminium easily compared to steel.

Thanks

[amasters]

Azam,

Although Allmetals has the best prices, they also are somewhat limited in what they carry. Take a look at OnlineMetals.com as they carry a greater selection such as square and rectangular aluminum tubes as well as I beams. Their prices are higher however.

Eight feet (96 inches) is going to be a limiting factor no matter who you go to. It is just not practical for most suppliers to keep longer lengths, let alone ship them.

I'm not sure of where you are planning to add the channels to strengthen the profiles. Are you planning to bolt the channel onto the long Y axis profile (the long length of your machine)? What are you trying to prevent? Deflection up/down or left/right?

[lgalla]

This company has 3"X3" 1/4" 300" stock cut to size
ASTM B221-08 6061-T6 Aluminum Equal Leg Structural Angle | Buy Online | Cut to Size | No Minimum Order

[azam1959]

Andy,

Want to prevent the deflection of long span. My machine will be little over 100 inch long. On the top of the profile is the table top, out side is the upright and on the bottom is the cross moving part. Only place I can think of is inside the long profile and I think I do have 3 inch depth available to me. I beam will be the ideal but not sure how to attach it to the profile. Of course I can try to put the I beam independent of end profile on both sides of b/s but not sure if I can attach it to the end plates and also not sure if I can put the I beams accurately to distribute the load from the table top to the I beams. I rather not reinvent the wheels, George has tried attaching the beam with the profile and he is satisfied with the results, I will just follow it. I do not have enough info on what type of beam was used in George's experiment. Hope I will hear something soon. May be some one in my situation has done the analysis guide me here.

As for length, I think 96 inch should be fine. Since we are not supporting the beam at the end, purpose of the beam is to strengthen the part of profile intersection which will see biggest deflection and I think not reinforcing the end part may be OK. Before I go ahead and make dumb decision, I will like to hear from knowledgeable folks here.

George has put few pictures in this thread last weekend about reinforcing the profile, you may want to go back couple of pages.

Regards,

Azam,

Although Allmetals has the best prices, they also are somewhat limited in what they carry. Take a look at OnlineMetals.com as they carry a greater selection such as square and rectangular aluminum tubes as well as I beams. Their prices are higher however.

Eight feet (96 inches) is going to be a limiting factor no matter who you go to. It is just not practical for most suppliers to keep longer lengths, let alone ship them.

I'm not sure of where you are planning to add the channels to strengthen the profiles. Are you planning to bolt the channel onto the long Y axis profile (the long length of your machine)? What are you trying to prevent? Deflection up/down or left/right?

[azam1959]

Great,

Thanks Larry. This solve the length issue. Do you think aluminium beam will do the job? if yes, what thickness should I use. Over engineering may not be a good idea as it will increase the weight on the profile.

Cheers

This company has 3"X3" 1/4" 300" stock cut to size
ASTM B221-08 6061-T6 Aluminum Equal Leg Structural Angle | Buy Online | Cut to Size | No Minimum Order

[lgalla]

Azam, sorry I can not advise on the thickness.Not being familiar with 80/20 a drawing would be nice.Perhaps don't rush and order in advance.Wait till you receive all your parts from George and assemble the basic frame then decide where to re inforce.
Larry

[gio666]

using aluminum would be a waste of time. Putting machine together then add support would be a bigger waste of time . As i said in email to use 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 thicker the better if the 3x3 is to heavy . Using smaller angles facing them opposite would even be stonger . 8080 profile drawing is on 8020 inc site. being single ballscrew the sides take all the pounding. As were the 80x160 would have really made huge difference . 90% of the forces well push the sides into each other . If not strong you will get racking. Side deflection is more where you need supprt

[gio666]

If i was to make more larger machines i would use the 80x160

[azam1959]

George,
Thanks. 80x160 is history now, so lets move ahead.

Based on your message I do understand that

1) I will have to use steel
2) I think single angle will do a better job of reinforcement instead of two light ones. I will use the shop crane to help me. 3x3x.25 steel channel is 5 lbs/ft, so for 8 labs we are talking about 40 labs. I think I use the shop crane to help me here. If need be I can make temporary wood supports or wait for a weekend when my son will be home.

Before I push the button to order, I have two more questions

1) Do these Channel screw in the t slots on the profile? I answer is yes, my life will be easy with making the hole. I do not have to be very accurate once I set the vise. I think I will have to make two rows of screws. Any idea about distance b/w the screws. Any web site pointer where I can get the t slot screws (if you have t slot screws, please send and add them in the invoice). If screws do not go to t slot and if threads are made on the profile, then I will have lot of fun to make holes are accurate position.

2) Is 96 in channel be good enough?

Let me know and I will order the channel. May be profile and channel arrive around the same time and I do not have to wait too long.

Larry,
Thanks for the advise.

using aluminum would be a waste of time. Putting machine together then add support would be a bigger waste of time . As i said in email to use 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 thicker the better if the 3x3 is to heavy . Using smaller angles facing them opposite would even be stonger . 8080 profile drawing is on 8020 inc site. being single ballscrew the sides take all the pounding. As were the 80x160 would have really made huge difference . 90% of the forces well push the sides into each other . If not strong you will get racking. Side deflection is more where you need supprt

[azam1959]

I should be able to get 103 inch channel from internet but shipping is more than double compared to 96 inch channel. I find a shop close to my home and will visit them first.

Continue to work on stand shelf. I was planning to put the granite tiles on top of wooden shelf but I think hardwood is heavy enough. Will revisit granite tiles decision if I see any issues in future. Was planning to glue the wood pieces but right now I am tiered and thinking about just putting wood pieces in the bottom and using the nail gun. Not sure if picture will show but wood finish right off the planner is pretty good and I will not spend too much time on finishing. Just mineral spirit and couple of tang oil coat. I start wood projects with rough wood and preparing the wood is fun (second picture is the starting point).

Hope to get profile shipping tracking number tomorrow and if hardware is also in this shipping then perhaps at this time next week I will be posting basic frame assembly picture.

bye for now.

Regards,

[iknowyoudo]

Azam,

How did you start your build log. I seem to be over looking something trying to start one. Thanks.

[azam1959]

Go one step up (XZero), scroll all the way down and you will see a button to start a new thread.

Please do post lot of pictures.

Azam,

How did you start your build log. I seem to be over looking something trying to start one. Thanks.

[azam1959]

Got two steel reinforcement pieces from local store. Nice guy, even came in basement and put the channel on the stand (believe me shop did not charge anything for delivery). Only drawback is that when I got the tubing from internet, they looked new but I think these channels are coming from some old machinery.

George sent the profile from Buffalo today and it will be here in couple of days. George is also sending small pieces (which include Z axis) today and next week he will be sending remaining table top pieces from Buffalo. I think this should complete the transaction but not sure if I am missing any piece till I complete the assembly.

Learned my lesson last weekend and promising myself not to spend more than an hour in a session and not to have more then 2 sessions in a day. Slowly working on shelf, will complete nailing tomorrow and perhaps complete the wood finish before I get the profile in couple of days. I guess this is the time to open the pdf file George posted few weeks ago for machine assembly.

Next challenge is to make holes in steel channel. I could not pick up the channel myself but fact that delivery person was able to carry them with ease give me some confidence that with proper setup/help I should be able to handle this.

I should be able to get 103 inch channel from internet but shipping is more than double compared to 96 inch channel. I find a shop close to my home and will visit them first.

Continue to work on stand shelf. I was planning to put the granite tiles on top of wooden shelf but I think hardwood is heavy enough. Will revisit granite tiles decision if I see any issues in future. Was planning to glue the wood pieces but right now I am tiered and thinking about just putting wood pieces in the bottom and using the nail gun. Not sure if picture will show but wood finish right off the planner is pretty good and I will not spend too much time on finishing. Just mineral spirit and couple of tang oil coat. I start wood projects with rough wood and preparing the wood is fun (second picture is the starting point).

Hope to get profile shipping tracking number tomorrow and if hardware is also in this shipping then perhaps at this time next week I will be posting basic frame assembly picture.

bye for now.

Regards,

[azam1959]

Hi,
Machine foot print will be 105x55 and my table foot print is ~122x~59. Table is little bigger because I will have to put cable chain on the side and monitor on one end.

I will have to place the machine on the wooden platform. Distance between machine support and steel tube will 2-3 inches, means deflection will not be too much. Do I need to worry about this? Will you suggest using something else beside wood?

If I do not hear any good ideas, I will just go with my plan of wooden platform and use casters support to level the machine.

Thanks

[iknowyoudo]

Azam,

I would cut the table to match the machine length. Then use thread rod, washers, nuts, & jam nuts through the tubing to bolt and level the machine. I would possibly add steel bar stock to frame to help minimize deflection. Not seeing it first hand or knowing all the specifics I'm just making an uneducated suggestion. I hope it helps you. Azam did you get a detailed invoice when you placed your order with Xzero?

[azam1959]

Thanks. I do not have tools to cut steel tubing. If I see a picture or two to see the mechanism to connect XZero machine with the table it will help. If machine is supported on end plate throughout machine width, I can put one end on steel tubing and for other end I can create very thick wooden beam. If machine is support on the corners, I can put three corners on the steel tube. If I can redo this, I would order four inch shorter beams for smaller span to take into account for the leg width and for computer monitor I would have created separate stand. Oh well....

As for invoice, I did get very detailed invoice for 60 inch table at the beginning of the deal. I also got a detailed invoice for ~110 inch table in March/April of 2011. When I cancelled the electronics after George's experiments with bigger table, we did talk to each other and agreed that George will send me table tubing, and bigger vfd, and bigger motor mounts instead of returning me the money for the electronics. Since then I got an invoice which George told me that it is not final (this was in Aug). George is also preparing me for more then estimated shipping expenses. George also sent me three hardware bags which were not in the invoice and George also told me that he will send me T nuts to connect the steel plate with the profile (I know this will be extra). George is also taking care of sending bigger wiring chain, different motor coupling etc. because dmm motors are different then what we were planning to put in the begging.

Today I got the profile and George also shared two tracking numbers for smaller items, and next week George will be shipping table tops. George is not holding any machine parts back due to money. I did remind George about invoice as recently as last week. Probably I will be owning some money to George but not sure about the complete picture yet as I end up buying the stand tubing by myself.

Regards,

Azam,

I would cut the table to match the machine length. Then use thread rod, washers, nuts, & jam nuts through the tubing to bolt and level the machine. I would possibly add steel bar stock to frame to help minimize deflection. Not seeing it first hand or knowing all the specifics I'm just making an uneducated suggestion. I hope it helps you. Azam did you get a detailed invoice when you placed your order with Xzero?

[ihavenofish]

you can cut the tubing with a good bimetal hacksaw easily, but it will make your arms tired after a while, haha. better than nothing though, and its cheap

[azam1959]

you are talking to a very weak and fragile person :-(

you been working with XZero machines. Tell me how machine is support on the table. there are four corners or machines are supported on the end plates? how machine is screwed/tied/connected with the table? do you have any closeup picture to share?

thanks

you can cut the tubing with a good bimetal hacksaw easily, but it will make your arms tired after a while, haha. better than nothing though, and its cheap