[CJCBuilder]

Hello and thanks for all the great information on this forum. I may have overlooked the post i am looking for, so sorry if i just repeat. I am in the final stages of building a plasma scibe table. I am stuck on figuring out the best way to bypass the lockout safety switch on a powermax 65 handtorch. I have read of three differe nt ways for this to be bypassed and all are different. Will each of these work or will i end up buying new circuits for my new machine. I know some of you can not comment because of legal issues, but there has got to be "GOOD OL' JOE" out there that can help me sleep. I will post pics of my build once finished, I am at 78 hours on my build with water table and 100 gallon bladder:

Thanks

[jimcolt]

Best plan is to use the machine torch (since you are building a cnc machine) and interface safely and properly using the rear panel CPC receptacle......which can easily be added to your machine if it is not on your unit. The machine torch is easier to mount (you will save money building/designing the torch mount), is easier to square to the plate (better cut edge angularity due to this), and makes for easier cable management.

I understand the need to save money....but when it comes to better performance and safety....over time th machine torch is well worth the added cost.

To interface the start signal on the hand torch....you can look at the wiring diagrams in your Hypertherm operators manual. The torch start trigger connections are easy to locate, the trigger switch is a simple on/off switch, voltage levels are under 15 volts DC on that circuit.

Jim Colt

[tjb1]

From reading I am assuming you are looking to allow the CPC to control the arc. I too asked this question and got nearly the same answer

I took a look at the diagram(this is the powermax45 diagram but I assume they are close) and if you take a look at the lower right corner you can see the connections pertaining to the hand torch. I have not tried nor am I sure that the solution is this but it appears if you remove the jumper for Jumper=MECH, it will allow the CPC inputs to work. Im not entirely sure if there is a jumper there or not a jumper for the hand torch, I guess you could check this with a continuity check between pins 3 and 4.

[Teknition]

Jim is giving you a round about answer for legal reasons. If he actually tells you the how to bypass the built in safety lockout, then Hypertherm is liable if you hit the torch ON button on your computer while the torch is wrapped around an acetylene tank in your shop and you go BOOM.

If you are going to use the hand torch, you can not get the connections you need from the CPC connector or on the circuit board inside the machine. You have to physically splice into the torch harness trigger wires. The two wires you want are violet and orange, polarity does not matter.

Brad

[jimcolt]

Couldn't have said it better myself! Bypass safety circuitry with high voltage, high temp equipment....and you are on your own!


Jim Colt

Jim is giving you a round about answer for legal reasons. If he actually tells you the how to bypass the built in safety lockout, then Hypertherm is liable if you hit the torch ON button on your computer while the torch is wrapped around an acetylene tank in your shop and you go BOOM.

If you are going to use the hand torch, you can not get the connections you need from the CPC connector or on the circuit board inside the machine. You have to physically splice into the torch harness trigger wires. The two wires you want are violet and orange, polarity does not matter.

Brad

[flyinwilly]

There is a easy way to get a hand torch to work with the CPC port but I would only do it if the torch is to remain on the table like a machine torch.

You do not have to splice any wires with this method. Disassemble the quick disconnect plug on the end of the torch. The normal start wires are #2 & #3, orange and violet. Remove #3 (violet) from the plug (i used a small pin to get the tang to release) and insert it into hole #4. Reassemble the plug. The torch is almost ready to work from the CPC port leads.

There is one more thing to do. Since these leads were meant to work from the trigger, you must shunt the trigger switch. Disassemble the torch housing. Remove the red trigger and unplug the trigger switch behind it. Now make a wire shunt to go across the 2 leads (just slide it into the switch plug and tape it up to prevent shorts). reassemble the torch housing and the torch will ONLY operate from the CPC port, just like the machine torch. Tape up the opening in the handle to prevent dust, etc. from getting inside the torch.

Save the parts and you can restore it to a hand torch by reversing the process.

Willy

[tjb1]

There is a easy way to get a hand torch to work with the CPC port but I would only do it if the torch is to remain on the table like a machine torch.

You do not have to splice any wires with this method. Disassemble the quick disconnect plug on the end of the torch. The normal start wires are #2 & #3, orange and violet. Remove #3 (violet) from the plug (i used a small pin to get the tang to release) and insert it into hole #4. Reassemble the plug. The torch is almost ready to work from the CPC port leads.

There is one more thing to do. Since these leads were meant to work from the trigger, you must shunt the trigger switch. Disassemble the torch housing. Remove the red trigger and unplug the trigger switch behind it. Now make a wire shunt to go across the 2 leads (just slide it into the switch plug and tape it up to prevent shorts). reassemble the torch housing and the torch will ONLY operate from the CPC port, just like the machine torch. Tape up the opening in the handle to prevent dust, etc. from getting inside the torch.

Save the parts and you can restore it to a hand torch by reversing the process.

Willy

Couldnt you just flip the lock and tape the trigger in? Not the best looking thing but simpler than taking the torch head apart.

[flyinwilly]

Sure. That's an option.

I wanted to make sure that this torch was never mistaken for a regular hand torch so I removed the trigger and switch. As for taking the torch housing apart, it's only a few screws. About a 5 minute job, no problems.

Willy

[jimcolt]

While you guys are doing all the modifying of a hand torch....I would be cutting with my machine torch and billing out parts in the $60 to $100 per hour range. I use my hand torch for hand cutting, machine torch stays on the cnc machine! No modifications were done to the plasma system wiring.

I understand the need for lower cost.....but over time you will be costing yourself more than the additional purchase price you would pay for a proper machine torch.

Much neater setup, and the interface is on the rear panel CPC connector....in a few seconds I can disconnect the Powermax85 from my machine and carry it away for use with the hand torch.....or I can simply unplug the machine torch and plug in the hand torch (no wiring changes) to cut the skeleton into smaller pieces on my cutting table.

Jim

[flyinwilly]

Jim:

I appreciate all the help and advice you've given the forum (and me) over the years but I think you're a little off base on the subject of torch modification although I understand your position because of the safety and legal issues.

1. There is no modification needed on the Plasma system itself ( 65 or 85).

2. The torch mods take less than 30 minutes so I doubt if you've made much money in that time.

3. Once the torch mods are made, it works EXACTLY like a machine torch with control through the CPC port.

4. Since it is a second torch purchased on a package deal, it stays on the table and the normal hand torch can be plugged in the same as in your setup.

5. If a person has any mechanical ability, it is not that much more difficult to line up a hand torch vs a machine torch.

I've listened to the arguments of hand vs machine torch and basically it comes down to cost. I've worked in engineering, sales, and marketing and the one thing I learned was that the MSRP has very little to do with the cost to produce the product. It has more to do with what the market will bear. If people are willing to pay more, the product will cost more. A good example is the machine torch. I find it hard to believe that the 15 deg hand torch cost less to produce than the machine torch. I would be willing to bet that you sell many more machine torches than the 15 deg hand torch. Also, the 15 deg torch has more parts and more complex parts that the machine torch. Yet, I can buy the 15 deg torch for around $150 in a package while the machine torch costs 3 times that. It's what the market will bear.

All that being said, Hypertherm is still the class of the cutter market and I still look forward to your advice and comments.

Willy

[jimcolt]

Willy,

I agree with you in part...if I was going to use a hand torch on a machine (and I have) I would do it in a similar way that you suggest....there actually is an easier way....but I'm not supposed to say!

In the 15 degree hand torch....trust me we selll a lot more than we do machine torches....and it has a lot of common components to the regular hand torch. The regular hand torch goes out the door at our Hanover, NH plant at over 20 times the rate that the machine torch sells at. I won't tell you the numbers of the hand torches....but hundreds daily.

When you are manufacturing machined parts and molded parts.....volume makes a huge difference in manufacturing cost....and any manufacturer that survived the recent economic crisis knows that manufacturing cost is directly tied to sales price....if you want to stay in business.

There are a lot of things that are priced because that's what the market will pay. Our air plasma machine torches are not one of them.

There are Powermax65 and 85 systems available that are packaged with both a machine and hand torch....at a highly discounted price. If anyone is interested (we have sold quite a few!) I will supply part numbers.

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Jim:

I appreciate all the help and advice you've given the forum (and me) over the years but I think you're a little off base on the subject of torch modification although I understand your position because of the safety and legal issues.

1. There is no modification needed on the Plasma system itself ( 65 or 85).

2. The torch mods take less than 30 minutes so I doubt if you've made much money in that time.

3. Once the torch mods are made, it works EY like a machine torch with control through the CPC port.

4. Since it is a second torch purchased on a package deal, it stays on the table and the normal hand torch can be plugged in the same as in your setup.

5. If a person has any mechanical ability, it is not that much more difficult to line up a hand torch vs a machine torch.

I've listened to the arguments of hand vs machine torch and basically it comes down to cost. I've worked in engineering, sales, and marketing and the one thing I learned was that the MSRP has very little to do with the cost to produce the product. It has more to do with what the market will bear. If people are willing to pay more, the product will cost more. A good example is the machine torch. I find it hard to believe that the 15 deg hand torch cost less to produce than the machine torch. I would be willing to bet that you sell many more machine torches than the 15 deg hand torch. Also, the 15 deg torch has more parts and more complex parts that the machine torch. Yet, I can buy the 15 deg torch for around $150 in a package while the machine torch costs 3 times that. It's what the market will bear.

All that being said, Hypertherm is still the class of the cutter market and I still look forward to your advice and comments.

Willy

[srecord1]

Can someone please help me with wiring the hand torch to work with the cpc. where do the wires have to be on the quick disconnect? ive tried and tried and nothing seems to work. my thc is a candcnc if that matters.

[srecord1]

If someone could please give me witch color goes to witch pin port on the torch quick connect as ive moved so many around thanks!!!!

[flyinwilly]

Here is an easier way to do it.

Disassemble the plug of the torch. Looking at the end, the pins count counterclockwise from the guide. Move pin 6 to pin 8. The pins have little tangs to hold them in, I used a pin to get them to release. Getting the pins to release is the hardest part.

Now you have to do the trigger. I removed the trigger switch and shorted the switch connector and removed the red trigger so it wouldn't be mistaken for a hand torch if it's off the table. Someone else suggested that you just tape it closed. Your choice.


The torch will only run from the CPC port now.

Willy

[tjb1]

If someone could please give me witch color goes to witch pin port on the torch quick connect as ive moved so many around thanks!!!!

Grab the service manual for your torch and look at the wiring to fix it...you shouldnt be moving things if you dont know what you are doing.

I just added a switch that completes a jumper wire between the two wires needed inside the unit, no messing around with pulling pins or anything but it does require soldering and taking the plasma cutter apart. I am sure there wont be any accidents with mine likes this, only 2 people will be using it and if the unit isnt on the plasma cutter...the cpc wont be hooked up. Maybe I will go back in and make it so the trigger must be held in for the cpc to work.

[cvanden87]

I was hoping someone can help me out with this. I wired in a toggle switch that goes between the violet and orange wires. But the wires still continue up to the torch as well in case I wanted to use a hand torch in the future. Thats the reason for using the toggle switch so I had the option to use a regular hand torch in the future. when I hit the switch the torch fires. But when I toggle back it continues to blow air. Did I do something incorrectly? Kinda feel like i did.

[cvanden87]

I had to put the switch between orange and yellow. Not sure if it matters but I'm using candcnc electronics