[Dbl_Tap]

What about metric sizes? Since I'm in the US and standard are plentiful should I even worry about those?

[Dbl_Tap]

Thanks ger21. Wasn't sure if there was a benefit to having some of the standard sizes in metric if there were usually killer deals on them online etc.

[louieatienza]

Thanks ger21. Wasn't sure if there was a benefit to having some of the standard sizes in metric if there were usually killer deals on them online etc.

You might find deals on some metric bits, but they may be one time deals and expensive to replace. Though in Europe they use metric bits; possibly 3mm, 6mm, 10mm, and 12mm. If you're here in the US I probably wouldn't bother unless you absolutely need a specific metric size; i.e. for slotting.

[Dbl_Tap]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense and saves me bunch of money. Now for the bits!

[CarveOne]

Wow, that's the one. I'm impressed that you found this. I'd like to know how you did it.

Maybe I should go back and buy the rest of these. They were only $2.50/ea.

-Freeman

I just now saw your question while reading back through this thread.

I think I just Googled LMT-Onsrud 65-023E as the search term. Don't remember now, but sometimes you have to look multiple pages down in the search list that Google returns to narrow it down to something that also shows the RBL and RBT type numbers and follow that link.

In the commercial world there can be a lot of specialty parts suppliers who make things specifically for a larger company. You won't easily find their part numbers because the larger company creates their own part numbers for their catalogs. Also, the specialty company may create these "special customer" part numbers that are not part of their normally published catalogs. Sometimes it's a slightly modified version of a standard catalog part. Something as simple as putting a laser etched name and part number on the part for the larger company so that you think the larger company actually made it. It could have been made specifically for the larger company, to their specifications, and sold nowhere else. You just never know.

[revwarguy]

I have done a fair amount of cutting aluminum with the O type single flute bits, profiles and pockets, and was very happy with the results - as well as a bunch of V-carving on wood and plastics. Now, I have a request to do some V carving in aluminum. Any advice/consensus on the best bits/feeds/speeds/DOCs for doing this with a CNC router?

Related to this, any one done any "3D" or relief carving in aluminum with ball nose cutters, etc using a router? Any wisdom (other than to abandon all hope ) to pass on there as well??

(It kind of goes without saying, but I would love to see any pics of any router-implemented V or relief carvings done in AL, along with the type of bit used, etc.)

[JerryBurks]

I have done a fair amount of cutting aluminum with the O type single flute bits, profiles and pockets, and was very happy with the results - as well as a bunch of V-carving on wood and plastics. Now, I have a request to do some V carving in aluminum. Any advice/consensus on the best bits/feeds/speeds/DOCs for doing this with a CNC router?

Not too successful so far. I tried V-carving some text into 6061 with the Amana In-Groove and the very tip of the blade broke right away. That means it rather ended up as a U-carving. I guess these bits are not suitable for the tough metal and need to be a bit more substantial. Or maybe I was going too fast.

Related to this, any one done any "3D" or relief carving in aluminum with ball nose cutters, etc using a router? Any wisdom (other than to abandon all hope ) to pass on there as well??

(It kind of goes without saying, but I would love to see any pics of any router-implemented V or relief carvings done in AL, along with the type of bit used, etc.)

I made an experiment on a very small scale (only 1" tall, see below). I used a 1/16 single flute end mill for "roughing" and an 1/16" ballnose for finishing. Needless to say that the feed rate for these tiny fragile bits is also very slow, I used 5ipm four roughing and 20ipm for finishing. I broke a few bits while experimenting but these were from Drillbitsunlimited.com and cost only a few Dollar. No reason this would not be easier with larger parts

[revwarguy]

Thanks for the post, Jerry.

Wow! That's an impressive result! I am amazed that figure held while cutting the profile! I take it the material is .125 thick? Was there any sign of melting with the ball nose, i.e. were they "healthy" chips? Use any lube/coolant?

As for Vcarving, I can see where the tip of the bit is always going to be an issue. Just like engraving bits, there simply may have to be some degree of U-ness to it. I could probably live with a .032 or so rounded tip. Got any pics of the Amana In-groove attempt?

[JerryBurks]

The material was 1/4" thick. But I did not cut it completely free. The elbows were still connected with 50/1000" thick bridges or tabs that were removed later with a needle file. There was no melting and the ballnose finish was easy. But the tiny roughing endmill gummed up and broke when running faster than the 5ipm (@24,000 rpm). I forgot the depth of the cut. It was very shallow and I did not use lubricant but an occasional air blast. I think a 2-flute bit may be a little more resilient at this diameter than the one I used:



The Vcarve job was more a kind of deep text engraving as seen on this picture.

[revwarguy]

Thanks again, Jerry, most informative. One last question - was the material a known alloy like 6061 or 7075, or some hardware store variety?

[JerryBurks]

The sheet with the carved text was 6061. The figurine from a hardware store bar, unknown alloy.

[revwarguy]

The figurine from a hardware store bar, unknown alloy.

Yep, the hardware store stuff can be very gummy to machine. Sorry about all the questions, Jerry - I had forgotten you did all that in your Bamboo build thread.

[beluga282]

Hi guys !!

I'm looking for a good place to buy carving bits (engraving also) in Canada for my cnc.

I'm working generally with wood and plywood.

Thank you.

[Bunbun]

Pretty good resource. For many DIY machines, it may not be possible to achieve the reccomended feedrates and spindle speeds due to certain factors, but you could still get pretty close to the recommended chipload.

Usually however the chipload is known, and then the feedrate could be calculated for a given spindle speed, derived from the chipload formula:

feedrate = spindle speed X chipload X number of flutes
chipload = feedrate / (spindle speed X number of flutes)

The other useful formula is for SFM, or Surface Feet per Minute. Some manufacturers will list their tooling's capacity in this way, calculated as:

SFM = 3.1416 X RPM X bit diameter / 12

Yet another one is the MRR, or Material Removal Rate, but you'd need the IPT, or Inch Per Tooth feedrate to calculate it:

IPT = feedrate / spindle speed (rpm) / number of flutes

MRR = spindle speed X depth of cut X width of cut x IPT x number of flutes

So for example, in the BMX chain sprocket video above, pocketing the openings between the spokes, my parameters are:

72IPM, .125"aDOC, .035"rDOC, 13,000rpm

My chipload is .0027, SFM = 850, IPT = .0027 and MRR = .315in^3/min

Hi I'm quite new with this and trying to play with wood cutting speed and feed.
Per above calculation and Vortex Chipload Chart,
1) What is chip load unit? Is it IPT or unitless?
2) I didn't see DOC in chipload formular. What is suitable DOC? Let say I cut hard wood with 1/4" 2F 12Krpm.

Please advice and thanks in advance.

[louieatienza]

Hi I'm quite new with this and trying to play with wood cutting speed and feed.
Per above calculation and Vortex Chipload Chart,
1) What is chip load unit? Is it IPT or unitless?
2) I didn't see DOC in chipload formular. What is suitable DOC? Let say I cut hard wood with 1/4" 2F 12Krpm.

Please advice and thanks in advance.

Chipload is in inches. DOC is typically 1XD, the diameter of the tool used.

[Bunbun]

Chipload is in inches. DOC is typically 1XD, the diameter of the tool used.

Thanks for fast clarify. I'm trying to collect bits as you showed in first page and do some experiment.
But in my country seem difficult to find Onsrud or Amana tool. So I have to order from eBay only.

Almost of seller list item with import charged+shipping cost that almost equal to the item. But no choice for me.(flame2)

[Bunbun]

Search Onsrud 65-023E... It is a reat deal, they are normally about $50 each....

Louie, today I searched in eBay and found "65-027E 1/4" Single Edge Solid Carbide Super O Flute Upcut Router Bit" that's cost about 1/3 of their retail price.
I doubt, what is the profit they can get with this discount? They still can sale even with 50-80% I think.
Is that defect from their production?

[ger21]

Onsrud sells discontinued and leftover custom ordered tools on Ebay at deep discounts. They are not defects, just items that are no longer manufactured.
I doubt they're trying to make a profit. They're probably selling them for not much more than cost.

I've probably spent about $1500 with them through Ebay in the last few years, and received nearly $5000 worth of tooling.

[Bunbun]

Onsrud sells discontinued and leftover custom ordered tools on Ebay at deep discounts. They are not defects, just items that are no longer manufactured.
I doubt they're trying to make a profit. They're probably selling them for not much more than cost.

I've probably spent about $1500 with them through Ebay in the last few years, and received nearly $5000 worth of tooling.

Thanks Ger21, I also saw 68-244 that sold 64.99 from 840 USD I would by it if I have chance to use.

[ger21]

Both Louie and I have purchased a similar, but smaller tool for about $40 that retailed for $600+