[peterfcooper]

Hi All

Been a lurker for several years but this is my first post

Am now the proud owner of a PCNC1100 - very much a noob and want some advice re coolant

I am in the UK and dod not order the Premier 600 Synthetic Coolant from Tormach as was concerned that it would cause problems with the shipping (hazardous?)

And it does not appear to be available in the UK
So looking to get somthing suitable - will be working mostly with mild steel with aluminium and cast iron from time to time

Major UK supplier has these in their catalogue
http://www.cromwell.co.uk/static/publication/1187/pages/1316.pdf
http://www.cromwell.co.uk/static/publication/1187/pages/1317.pdf

Any advice?
Any known to be OK ( or not OK ) - eg eating paint - causing dermititus etc etc

Peter

[GLCarlson]

Peter,

Welcome and congratulations on the new machine.

Re fluids. In your situation, I'd call a couple of suppliers or manufacturers and ask tech service for a recommended equivalent to Premier 600. Characteristics I think you DO want: semi synthetic or fully synthetic (yes, more expensive), biodegradable/sewerable, transparent or translucent, claimed long sump life, low irritation/dermatitis potential, and if possible a pH under 10 or so (that goes with low irritation- higher pH will eat your skin). I strongly recommend a microemulsion (they tend to be clear).

I would avoid anything that says it's "soluble" (ie, emulsifiable) oil- those tend to be nasty on several counts. Always milky looking, often short sump life despite claims to the contrary.

Of the ones on the pages you linked to, V-cut SS and most of the ones on page 1317 looked like possibilities. The Beethoven VNF2 sounded like a hit.

I do think your best bet is to call a supplier or distributor and talk to tech services, though. You might also ask Tormach.

If you do find a good equivalent choice, please post it for the rest of us.

[dbrija]

I've been using Tri-cool with great results: http://travers.com/skulist.asp?RequestData=CA_Search&navPath=All+Prod ucts%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch%3Dcoolant%2F%2F%2F%2FCu tting+Fluids+%26+Lubricants&q=block+id+31201+and+c lass+level3+id+30097&minPrice=$36.49

[oly2brf5]

I machine cast iron dry. For steel and aluminium I use Biokool14 from Hallett Oils in Wolverhampton. It is a soluble oil, but seems fine to me; I have had no problems with sump life. Even after a year there is no smell.

Regards,

Andrew

[Steve Seebold]

The ONLY thing wrong with machining cast iron is it's DIRTY.

I use Blazocut 2000 Universal in my machine. I have used it for about the last 15 years. I have no sump stink or skin irritation.

One thing I have done is I vacuum the chips out of my machine and when I dump the tank on the vacuum cleaner, I dump it in to a deep sink with a 5 gallon pail under the drain to catch any coolant that has been sucked up.

From a 7 gallon vacuum full of chips, I usually recover 1 to 1 1/2 gallons of coolant.

And if there's still too much coolant in the chips, I have a stainless steel salad spinner that works like a centrifuge.

Yep, I'm a cheap SOB and $128.00 for a 5 gallon pail, I want to recover as much coolant as possible.

Besides, while the machine is running, what else do I have to do.

[TXFred]

I was running Liquid Ice HPX. It was clean, didn't stink, and didn't irritate my skin.

Unfortunately it turns brass green, and it does not provide adequate corrosion protection.

I'm trying the Tormach coolant now. It's a bit unpleasant to breathe, so I'm looking into other options.

Frederic

[underthetire]

Blazocut/blazer is pretty damn standard in most large shops now. Getting rid of 200 gallons of coolant is not cheap, so sump life is even more important. We have machines running it for the last 2 years with no signs of going bad.

Coolant tricks that are known to help..
Fish tank bubblers. Especially for machines that don't run every day.
Skim the oil. A film of oil keeps the coolant from breathing. It's like putting a plastic bag on a dog turd.
Never mix water to concentrate. Always stir concentrate to a bucket of water, or jet mix
Always check concentration levels with a refractometer.

And remember, just because a coolant company says biodegradable, flush able, whatever, it is still not legal to do so in most areas. Once you cut with coolant, your mixing metals and machine oil in the coolant.

[MichaelHenry]

I've been using Hangsterfer S-500 for mostly acrylic and aluminum, though it's supposed to be good for most metals. I've been using it for around 5 years now and never had a problem with odor or paint loss. The main problem I've had with it is that my Vactra #2 way oil accumulates in the sump and seems resistant to belt skimming, so I've got a call in to Hangsterfer to see if their way oil might be better.

Apparently, Macinnes Tooling sells it in the UK:

Hangsterfers Laboratories Inc - USA

Mike

[peterfcooper]

Hi Guys
And thanks for the help so far

But....
1. The big problem with providing USA suppliers is getting it here to the UK - these are all classed as hazardous (!) and have difficulty air shipping - never mind the shipping cost

2. googling the product names for a UK supplier turns up zilch

3. Tormach were not much help as they are not familiar with the products available here in the UK

I think I'll go with one of GLCarson's recomendations
Or maybe the Hangsterfer S-500
or then again Biokool14 - but that seems a small company - but maybe I'm biased

Really dunno - all the marketing claims say similar stuff and the tech specs are fairly meaningless to me at my knowledge level :{


But keep the suggestions coming

Peter

[Steve Seebold]

Hangstafers is good stuff. I met a salesman at Westec a few years ago who hooked me up with a 5 gallon pail of the S500. It worked as good as the Blazocut 2000 I had used for about 10 years.

I wouldn't hesitate to use either one. The only thing I do is to mix it a little rich if I'm doing steel. For aluminum, I use about a 8% mixture, but for steel I'll use 12%.

Cast iron, dry but dirty.

[MichaelHenry]

Hangstafers is good stuff. I met a salesman at Westec a few years ago who hooked me up with a 5 gallon pail of the S500. It worked as good as the Blazocut 2000 I had used for about 10 years.

Steve - did you have any trouble with Hangsterfers and tramp oil?

I'm finding it hard to remove a lyer of Vactra #2 way oil that is floating in the sump and gets mixed with the coolant. I've tried using a Zebra-type belt skimmer continuously in the sump but that isn't helping much.

Any ideas?

Mike

[Steve Seebold]

Steve - did you have any trouble with Hangsterfers and tramp oil?

I'm finding it hard to remove a lyer of Vactra #2 way oil that is floating in the sump and gets mixed with the coolant. I've tried using a Zebra-type belt skimmer continuously in the sump but that isn't helping much.

Any ideas?

Mike

I used a belt type skimmer that came on with a timer about 2 AM after the coolant in the tank had sat for 8 hours giving the tramp oil time to separate and rise to the top of the coolant.

[MichaelHenry]

I used a belt type skimmer that came on with a timer about 2 AM after the coolant in the tank had sat for 8 hours giving the tramp oil time to separate and rise to the top of the coolant.

Thanks Steve - I'll give that a shot.

The Hangsterfers #2 way oil was delivered, but 5-gal is the smallest size they sell. That should last me a decade or two.

Mike

[SWATH]

Does the Hangsterfers have a strong odor like Vactra?

[BIG IGG]

I've been using Tri-cool with great results: http://travers.com/skulist.asp?RequestData=CA_Search&navPath=All+Prod ucts%2F%2F%2F%2FUserSearch%3Dcoolant%2F%2F%2F%2FCu tting+Fluids+%26+Lubricants&q=block+id+31201+and+c lass+level3+id+30097&minPrice=$36.49

dbrija how is the smell on it? I need a coolant for cutting aluminum and that does not smell that bad.

[Don Clement]

Does the Hangsterfers have a strong odor like Vactra?

I use Vactra #2 as a way lubricant. Is there also a Vactra coolant?

BTW Has anyone come up with an acceptable homemade soluble oil coolant? It seems at ~$100/ 5gal it might be worth trying to make a coolant.

Don

[MichaelHenry]

Does the Hangsterfers have a strong odor like Vactra?

Were you interested in the coolant or the way lube smell?

The coolant doesn't, at least to my nose. I haven't opened the way lube yet.

Mike

[tbaker2500]

I may be stoned for admitting this, but I just use water.
I am very sensitive to odors, and any coolant I used left me smelling it for hours afterwords. Reading up on the various companies products, none of it is good for you and some of it is downright bad for you.

So I've been running tap water for 6 months now, and the cooling properties are fantastic. I'm not sure yet if I'm losing much on lubrication, I cut 6061. Rust is an issue, but wiping down the table and a quick spray of silicone kills that problem. (Even with the official Tormach coolant I still got lots of rust, and needed to wipe down the machine and spray it anyway.) I swap it out regularly to keep down any bacterial growth.

Anyway, I am I much happier person now, and can work around the machine without breathing in misted coolant.

[underthetire]

Does the Hangsterfers have a strong odor like Vactra?

Not at all. It's a pretty light oil, I only ever noticed much smell at 3000psi coolant pressure, since it would atomize at that extreme.