[Jvizzi]

Hello All,

This is my first post to CNCzone and I just wanted to get a comparison of a 2001 Haas Minimill and a Matsuura Tiger MC-510vs. Our shop is ready to go to the next level for milling processes and looking for a good starter CNC.

My first impression was that the Matsuura would have superior rigidity as it has a larger table. I figure, bigger table/table travel, bigger ball screws and more rigid, no? Also, we have a machinist that we frequently sub jobs to who uses Matsuura and says its a good name. However I know Haas is very popular as well.

I would appreciate some insight from whoever has had experience on these machines!

[underthetire]

What year tiger and what control?

Yes the matsuura is a more rigid machine, but if it's some old thing, might not be worth the headache.

[Jvizzi]

The Matsuura is a 1991, however it is in incredible shape for its age.

With the risk of someone else grabbing it, here's the ebay link:

MUST SEE! MATSUURA TIGER MC-510VS CNC VERTICAL MACHINING CENTER - YASNAC CONTROL | eBay

[underthetire]

Looks like a nice machine, and good thing it hasn't been repainted. The bt35 spindle may be harder to get tooling for. I'm not a fan of yasnac either. Since they got bought by seimens, service pretty much went away in a lot of areas.

[double a-ron]

Let me put it like this, I own a mini2. If I wasn't in the market for a much bigger machine, you'd be bidding against me.

[Machineit]

That is a nice looking machine. Depending on the ending price, it may cost less and be larger with more tools. The BT35 is an issue, but with the lower initial cost it may not be a problem.

I'll watch it with you.

Mike

[double a-ron]

This company has the tooling you'll need. Man I'm jealous. That control looks sweet! I'm too young to have used a control with that many knobs and toggle switches. It's almost beautiful when you stare at it long enough. Love that horizontal, analog spindle load meter. Bad a$$.

[eaglemike]

IMO down time is a killer. Just to frustrating when you are trying to get parts made. I (personally) wouldn't by a machine with a control that might have any issues at all. I just bought another Haas. I don't consider another machine for my work because I can almost always get things fixed in 2 days or less, often the same day - and the machines being down is very rare. Sometimes the tech support guy helps get things fixed at no or low cost.

[double a-ron]

It sold for under 10k! Did you win it?

[Delw]

IMO down time is a killer. Just to frustrating when you are trying to get parts made. I (personally) wouldn't by a machine with a control that might have any issues at all. I just bought another Haas. I don't consider another machine for my work because I can almost always get things fixed in 2 days or less, often the same day - and the machines being down is very rare. Sometimes the tech support guy helps get things fixed at no or low cost.

Yasnac controls have very few issues really I havent seen any.
Ive had 8 machines both lathes and mills with yasnacs.
funny people talk about down time.
Ive been doing this for almost 30 years in 3 shops including my own, have a ton of buddies with shops and lots of machines, all brands. none of them have downtime its very rare to have down time, unless you have a operator that crashs machines.
I probly shouldnt have said anything cause I will more than likely jinx myself.

[haastec]

I probly shouldnt have said anything cause I will more than likely jinx myself.

DOOHHHHHHH!!!!!!

I knocked on some wood for you to help out.:cheers:

[extanker59]

Programmed, set up, and ran a Matsuura Tiger in the '90s and ending in 2003. It was bought new and was over 10 yrs old by the time I left. Like others have said, the only down time was due to operator (sometimes me) error. Had to re-adjust the tool changer position mostly. If you stall out the machine it will sometimes move the orientation.
Great machine IMO.
Seemed more solid than our current VF-2ss. Didn't chatter as much. But it was also more expensive at the time (new). No chip conveyor on the one I used.

Tell us if you got the machine.

[extanker59]

BTW, I liked Yasnac better when we first got it due to the added canned cycles over Fanuc. But I've seen those added to the Fanuc since then. I felt it was easier to program than Fanuc.

[jreillycnc1]

Matsura's are built to last and I see many old ones still. Haas, although they have a big following are not even close to being in the same class. The Matsura, even though it is a smaller taper will outcut the Haas. Haas uses duty cycles that are in the seconds to rate their drives and spindles. In the case of a new Machine a 20 Hp Haas will be a 7.5 HP Japanese spindle that conforms to JIS standards. The service guy will do stuff for free sometimes because he will become a needed friend that you will need often. You will get to like the control and you will fall into growing into New Haas machines, which will often give any competitors that don't use Haas a big competitive adavantage. I just watched a Tawianese machine that wan not even very good, out cut a Haas 2 to 1 in Stainless. I could only imagine what the difference would be in Japanese built. Haas machines are usually bought because they look good astectically, guys on the floor like the control, a feeling of security choosing a popular machine, and they can get the job done (slower but done). If you plan to grow based on your ability to make chips and produce accurate parts, you will be much better off with the Matsura.

[extanker59]

A lot of opinions there that sound like a sales pitch. Do you work for them? Forgive me if I'm off base, just the way it reads seems overblown.

[WallyL7]

The service guy will do stuff for free sometimes because he will become a needed friend that you will need often.

LOL. That is the opposite of truth.

[eaglemike]

Yasnac controls have very few issues really I havent seen any.
Ive had 8 machines both lathes and mills with yasnacs.
funny people talk about down time.
Ive been doing this for almost 30 years in 3 shops including my own, have a ton of buddies with shops and lots of machines, all brands. none of them have downtime its very rare to have down time, unless you have a operator that crashs machines.
I probly shouldnt have said anything cause I will more than likely jinx myself.

No experience w/Yasnac, sounds like they are good. Before I had my own place, we had a lot of Fanuc and Mazatrol stuff. Seemed like every other week one of them was down. :banghead:
That's why I use Haas, almost never down. My 1997 or 1998 VF-2 has been down maybe 3X in the 6 or 7 years I've owned it. I bought it used, the other stuff new. 2007 Super Mini down 2x since new, only for a day each time.
( I know about the jinx, knocking on wood here)
Nope don't work for Haas, or even get any screaming deals. Just a satisfied customer - and I'm the guy that uses and pays for the machines.

[jreillycnc1]

I doubt anyone is working for Matsura and promoting a tiger, when they don't even make standard verticals anymore. The tiger will be far better built and if he grows, he will make more parts, faster with something else. This is not to take away from anyone that buys one. It is actually a compliment that they can do more with less. The machine is only one part of the equation but if you are using a Haas there are a lot of people that can do it better and faster for less money 90% of the time. Sorry if that bothers some people. I am sure if people were aware of this, they would not go that route but it is popular and popular feels safe. I bougt an Ipad for the same reason but I ended up with something else.

[JohnJW]

I am newbie. While Matsura may be a great machine, as with any used machine, what happens if something breaks? Where do you get help, parts and service. If you like it and you grow, where do you get another one?

If I already have a Matsura in the shop and I like how it performance, I wouldn't mind buying another used one, especially at the price that one went for. However, just starting out, especially here in the US, I don't think you can beat a Haas for value.

[underthetire]

Matsuura has been around a lot longer than haas. Parts and service are no problem on the machine. Controller, well, like I said, yasnac is gone. I don't agree with the whole motor thing vs a haas, since haas uses yaskawa motors just like the matsuura would, only newer.