[jreillycnc1]

Haas does not use Yaskawa. They use Lincoln Electric.
They do not publish information like this along with spindle or drive tourque curve charts. It is true that Haas would be good for someone starting out. The problem lies that very often as the company grows and productivity requirements go up, companies will tend to stay with Haas because the control is easy to use. Despite great Haas marketing efforts to prove they are the answer for all applications, if your profit is directly related to making chips, you will outgrow Haas capabilties. It takes more labor and cycle time to run Haas, Many people look at it differently. The machine's all do the same thing and that is a recipe for getting passed over by larger customers and leave you in a lower tier supplier role. Just one opinion that would fit other machines in the same class. Marketing and Popularity have brought them to the table for applications where they don't belong. I take nothing from Haas as its the buyers responsibility to be dilligent and educated.

[double a-ron]

Wow, and I got called a haas basher for suggesting a better way to order parts...

[haastec]

Haas does not use Yaskawa. They use Lincoln Electric.

I think he was referring to the axis motors which Haas does use Yaskawa motors for. The spindle motors commonly have the Lincoln Electric.

[haastec]

Wow, and I got called a haas basher for suggesting a better way to order parts...

Trouble maker! (chair):argue:

[double a-ron]

I had the Haas lathe brochure as toilet reading for like a year. I remember a torque and power curve for like all the spindles. In fact they gave specs on everything.

[Delw]

I been doing this for 25+ years.
working at and owing a job shop/production shop.
this is my opinion.
I ran and owned a ton of different type of machines from acrolocs to haas to hitachi sekies both in mills and lathes.
theres a huge difference between a job shop and a production shop ie 5-50pcs vs 500-5000 pcs( thats where fast machines come in handy)

from a JOB SHOP stand point I have to give it to haas and hitachi. NOT for the how stront they are but how fast they can be set up programmed and ran.. start getting into production and other machines might work better.
My haas I set up and run 2-10 jobs per day always different never repeat jobs(prototype work).
with the probe system and some awsum simple canned cycles its simple.
the only problem I have with the machines is LM guides I hate them I would rather have a machine run 400IPM on rapids and box ways than run 1200IPM on those no good for nothing guides. not to mention the ball screws have too fast a twist rate on them giving less rigidity.
you get chatter constantly so you have to slow up and take lighter cuts.

My YCI supermaxs(lathes) would out cut a 20sIII hitachi seiki 3-1 it was half the machine speed wise the hitachi was. Just like my Fadal and YCI supermax mills they will outcut the hass easily except for speed.
when your doing quick jobs a few mins a part makes no difference its all about set-up time. start running quanities and Yes a few mins here and there make a huge difference.

I will say this and always have about haas, even on there boxed way machines in the 90s I have never seen a better cutting circle on any other mill other than a haas even with a semi sloppy haas you can cut great circles and hold tight tols. Fadal not even close. matsuras not bad.

getting ready to pull the trigger on another mill here this year and I havent decided what I am getting. I know it wont be a SS haas due to the way it cuts alum. a non SS haas more than likely but also leaning towards a matsura.
The one main reason I am leaning towards haas is due to the tech support. I will have to do research on others. Fadal wasnt bad( there out of business so to speak) YCI has always been good to us Just not int he valley anymore.

[Machineit]

The funny thing about Haas machines is that they end up getting a little bashing in many threads, even when they are not the topic or did nothing wrong. It kind of a jealousy and envy thing.

Are they the most rigid---No! Are they the fastest---No! Do they have the most tools or the fastest tool changer---No! Do they have the most powerful controller with the most options---No! Do they have the best of anything on a machine by machine basis---MMMM No! Do they have their issues----Yes!

But, what Haas does have is a complete business plan or system that supplies their customers with very good machines that can do whatever job you throw at them. And, at a price that is hard to compete with and a system of supporting factory outlets that can't be beat. You can always get parts, you can always get help on the phone or in person. They are not going out of business anytime soon and they have a range of machines and products that is amazing. A new machine is never far from delivery.

Like Delw said, if you are turning out thousands or millions of the same parts and speed is your primary concern, you should probably buy another brand. But, if you are like me, my shop and every shop I have ever worked in or owned, we are turning out many different jobs a day. As they would say in the movie business---running and gunning! I almost never have a job that runs the same program for more than 8 hours.

If you are opening a job shop, I would recommend the Haas to anyone. Easy to run, easy to teach others to run and reliable.

Mike

[KenFoulks]

I work for and represent Haas. I have to agree with most of the comments here. In some respects, everything on here was true at least at some point in time. So, I will address a few inaccuracies and confirm some points. These are current and do not necessarily reflect any past configurations:

Spindle Motors: Yaskawa, Baldor, and Lincoln
Axis Motors: Yaskawa, Mitsubishi, and SEM
Information Publishing: We publish more information publicly than any of our competitors. Just try getting something basic like a price.
Marketing and Service: World-Class
Popularity: Popular for a reason
Linear Guides: Haas VMC Brochure | Vertical Machining Centers
Prototype Environment: Top Choice
Production Environment: In most cases, a small fleet of Haas machines can produce more parts per dollar spent than a more expensive brand.

[jreillycnc1]

Which motors do they use? How is the selection made?
Haas publishes price to be noble and straight forward or maybe like most companies, they publish their strogest points and base price is a strong point for Haas. The base price without industry standard options is what's meant to stick out to a customer who has other things to do then build a quote that does not automatically show things like a gearbox which you will need if you actually need the published horsepower. Yes they publish a lot of info. What is the duty cycle on the horsepower listed? I would hope it's continuous if your going to paint it on the front of the machine.
How are the accuracies calculated? If not through a standard used by other machine builders, than why not for comparison reasons?.
It is the belief of most machine builders that the most productive solutions would be decided in a collabarative effort. If you had the ability to put a value on features without knowing how a machining company operates then it would be "Popular" to show pricing but since there are not many cookie cutter machine shops it is best left off until it is known what is needed. I am sure the final price is not often the price the customer views on the website. A budget can easily be discussed quickly, but price does not mean value to most.
Does World Class Marketing have such a benefit in the form of value for the customer that it is listed next to service? (maybe its just a coincidence)
Popularity is relative. Is Haas popular in Horizontals and Mill/Turns? Compared with who?
It is a top choice for Prototype, so we agree on that.
The statement on a fleet of Haas machines is silly.
The website itself is very presumptious about what machine shops need all together as if they are making hamburgers. There is something custom about every machine shop that I have been in. The last statement of the Haas VMC's info page reads (cut and pasted):

Every Haas VMC provides the features and performance you need – making it the best investment you've ever considered, and providing more utility, flexibility, and productivity than you've ever imagined.

Why not provide Haas bank info to wire funds for your new machine because until it comes you are losing money.
Its kind of arogant and makes a lot of assumptions for what many consider to be a low-mid end machine tool. Its almost as if to say"You don't need a VTL, just put a rotary table on a VF-8 and you have a Y axis VTL". Need more productivity? Just make room and buy more Haas machines. It seems like everyone else should beg Haas to buy them out before they go under.
I would like to know what makes Haas exempt from "you get what you pay for" and exceed all value possible of other machines.

The begining of the VMC page (not the history) talks about the founder as some kind of folk hero, which is just plain strange. We won't go any deeper than that but well you know. It just has nothing to do with the subject.

Haas is a solid US manufacturing success. In the area of California they are in, I am sure they make a major positive impact on employment, but what matters is how productive the shop buying it can be. If it works than go with it but don't be surprised when others warn potential buyers not to drink the kool-aid. I would expect Haas employees to defend the company but popularity and marketing offer no real value. If these benefits make it to the one page commercial, there is a problem with either the product or the understanding of what the buyers need to use it for.

[Machineit]

And so it begins--------------------again.

[double a-ron]

Folk hero? The only time I heard Gene referd to as a folk hero was in an article that gave a timeline of the events leading up to when he gave Hurco the big Fluck You. Maybe this guy is a pissed of Hurco exec? Are they still selling machines? Maybe in taiwan where they're made (love that American flag on their homepage and the patent holders on their new motion control: Jiawei Hong, Xiaonan Tan).

What was the origanal post about again? Oh yeah, a 20 year old matsuura that was being given away at less than 10k. I wonder if he got it, was a sweet machine.

[jreillycnc1]

Everyone wants to pick on poor Haas because they envy or covet there position. I can assure you that is not the case of people that work with high productivity companies. World class marketing- Go to Harvard Business school sample a Marketing class. World Class marketing is the eqivalent of brainwashing. I would say that opens the door to exposing untruths.

[Machineit]

Everyone wants to pick on poor Haas because they envy or covet there position. I can assure you that is not the case of people that work with high productivity companies. World class marketing- Go to Harvard Business school sample a Marketing class. World Class marketing is the eqivalent of brainwashing. I would say that opens the door to exposing untruths.

No, we don't miss TO point, you do.

I checked your stats and as of this time you have 34 posts here. You have not started a thread yourself or asked a single question. Every post you have made is either promoting a foreign brand of machine tool or bashing Haas. You serve no purpose in this forum.

This is a Haas forum, yet I think almost everyone, myself include, said the the Tiger looked like a great little machine and great buy. I hope he got it.

My suggestion to you is to troll another forum and stop making late night early morning post here that are inarticulate, rambling and add absolutely nothing to the thread as started.

Get a life----somewhere else.

[double a-ron]

My department which includes me, myself and I, are supported by two haas machines running 7 days a week. I fact both are running right now. The lathe is the dual spindle tl-15 with live tooling. I just finished turning 60 spindles out of 5.5" od 4140 ht. Spindle needle never dipped below 125% for 3 days. As for the mill, a little 7hp minimill2. With the addition of volumill to my cam software, I can now "program" a continuous 130% on the spindle for every job. How's that for duty cycle.

Do you own any haas machines? If not, how are you forming an opinion. Check out the pics below, that's how I formed MY opinion.

[double a-ron]

I wonder if he got that machine.

[Machineit]

I wonder if he got that machine.

+1

[double a-ron]

..."early morning posts"... Thats's funny, I did'nt even catch that. I was pretty hammerd last night, but I do seem to remember my stupid phone telling me I had a new email. Thanks jreillycnc1, that was supposed to be pass out time.

[Machineit]

I learned years ago not to go out partying and then come home and post anything!!!!!!

I don't get updates by email, doesn't work, probably a good thing.

[Delw]

he would make a good salesmen for those POS garage 3 in one minimills .

[double a-ron]

People buy those? I thought those were gag gifts you get a machinist for christmas. You know like 6 packages of giant tighty whiteys. The underwear will probably do a better job of machining though.