[pete from TN]

Well good news folks. After this weekends LinuxCNC meeting and fabfest here at my shop we managed to get the spindle encoder finally installed. I machined a beautiful mount on top of a round boss that sits on top of the motor. It looks factory almost and it fit perfectly. Then we were able to solder and double heat shrink the leads from the new encoder to the original resolver cable and it had the right amount of leads inside it to allow full differential encoder feedback to the 7i77 card and linuxCNC. Yesterday I went with a friend from the LinuxCNC IRC to Kentucky to look at a nice used Cincinatti Sabre machine and he may be buying it for himself to use in his shop. Most likely he will be following my lead with components and boards and drives/motors from what he says apparently.

Yesterday when we got back from Kentucky to my shop he offered to help me get this encoder wired up and configured in the software. He is very capable with the programming end of stuff and it appeared to be pretty easy for him. We were able to get the encoder wired into the 7i77 card very easily and then powered up the machine to configure it and look for the signals in HAL. Once we found the signals it was a simple matter of wiring together the signals and the proper linuxCNC pins to get it to output to the control. It sure was nice to see the numbers moving when we turned the spindle by hand. Then once we were sure the encoder was working complete with index pulse and everything we commenced to setup the scale to match the commanded and actual speed. That was just some number juggling and then we were getting accurate feedback to commanded speed.

The next problem was that the encoder, since it is mounted to the spindle motors shaft with a 2-1 belt drive ratio to the spindle actually outputs TWO index pulses to the control for every one turn of the spindle. That would not do and the original control used a 180 degree cam on the spindle top and a proximity sensor to control when the resolver was at index position apparently. So we needed a way to mask one of the index pulses for the spindle so we can use the single other index pulse for rigid tapping cycle as well as for Spindle orient. Pete from MESANET to the rescue!!! He was able to write a new custom 5i25 firmware upgrade for my card that allowed the program to mask the other index during the evolution of the 180 out proximity sensors high time. It is all very technical and Pete is a freaking genius with this stuff so all we had to do is enact a firmware update for the 5i25 and make some changes in the configuration and lo and behold it worked!! I cannot thank him and Connor and everyone who helped with this issue enough.

Once we got the input from the encoder working properly we decided to then turn our attention to trying to setup a rigid tapping cycle. After reading a bit on the forum we realized how to properly program the cycle and were able to enact a rigid tap cycle for a 3/8 16 thread .75 deep in a simulated air cut.. Then we played with several other cuts to test to make sure the spindle and head movement looked right. I was so pleased to see it actually do a controlled rigid tap with spindle feedback. I have not actually tried to cut a tap in material yet as it got late in the shop and he had to leave for GA but I was so pleased that it actually worked and my efforts on the spindle motor encoder were working.

After I play with rigid tapping on the control and learn to use that properly which is going to be AWESOME to have on the VMC the next step is spindle orient. Connor and several others seem to think this is just a matter of some HAL changes and we can test that soon. That will be a landmark because once we have accurate spindle orient the next step is enacting a toolchange. We are taking baby steps here I know but so far everything has gone rather smoothly and carefully and the results are that I have been able to build a very accurate wonderful machine here that makes some beautiful parts. Once the toolchanger is working properly that will be the end of it until I get my hands on a suitable fourth axis rotary unit. I fully intend to have fourth axis and hopefully a renishaw probe on this machine as soon as possible. This will really bring it into it's own and rival any of the HAAS machines I have run at places I have worked or other similar machines. I could not be happier with the Cincinatti Arrow 500 I have here, the MESANET cards I chose to use, LinuxCNC which is dead reliable and amazingly configurable as well as my decision to gut the machine and start over with brand new motors, drives, cables, etc. etc. I cannot thank enough all of the kind folks who have helped me along the way. Now I am actively looking for a suitable turning center to work on and do the same basic thing.

I just got some more orders for my custom designed droop compensating scope riser rails and some other parts I need to make so I am going to get back out there and work. I will update here more as the machine takes shape and we get spindle orient working as well as the toolchanger setup. Connor has apparently got a full blown working simulation of the toolchanger setup ready to test once the orient is reliably working. This is really getting exciting around here now. Peace

Pete

[rwskinner]

Sounds like things are looking up for you Pete! I want some video of that beast running!!
Your going to love it when you get the tool changer going.

Say, I have to ask, why didn't you mount the encoder to the spindle instead of the motor?

Richard

[pete from TN]

Sounds like things are looking up for you Pete! I want some video of that beast running!!
Your going to love it when you get the tool changer going.

Say, I have to ask, why didn't you mount the encoder to the spindle instead of the motor?

Richard

Richard,
Hey thanks for the kind words man. We are getting there with this machine. It is running very very well and I am actually making parts with it as we speak here. I put the encoder on the spindle motor both because that is where the original resolver was and also because it is just easier there is not really a good place to put the encoder on the spindle and even if you did you would have to setup some kinda belt drive for it anyways with the power drawbar setup and the dual timing belt system that drives the spindle there is just not too many places to put it. Besides if it worked for Cincinatti putting it on the motor I don't see why it won't work for me LOL.. I am really loving this machine it is just so damn precise and powerful. I have spent a good bit of time working in some local shops recently and they all had new HAAS machines. This machine feels much like running one of those now and it has a better graphical representation of the part and toolpaths and I love the fact that I can add fourth axis, probing, etc etc without having to reach DEEP into my pocket. Hope you are well my friend. Thanks again for all the help with the modbus on my RF45. Peace

Pete

[rwskinner]

Understood Pete. For some reason I thought you stated the original was spindle driven. You are right, no good place on the spindle for mine either with the PDB and stuff in the way.
Mine has been up and running good since I fixed the ATC and added the low air pressure lock out. I beefed it up some while I was at it.

I've been doing lots of nick knack stuff after work and on the weekends and making pretty good coin. Mostly on custom work for Older welding machines like the SA200 / SA250's for belt drives and governor rebuilds and working on some diesel conversion kits for a buddy.

Good luck with it all. Stay in touch!

Richard

[slowlearner]

Pete,
It sounds like you are real close now. Yes we do want to see a video of the tool change and rigid tapping. I am now convinced that is what I need to do to my sabre 750. Do you have a preference on the brand turning center you are looking for? How large of a machine would you like to have?
Type later,
Scott

[pete from TN]

Scott,
Thanks man it is still not finished yet but it sure is getting there. I will definitely get a video or two of the machine once toolchanger is working.

As far as the turning center I am limited by space and power requirements. I seriously doubt I can power more than a 10 hp spindle motor on it. I really am interested in converting a slant bed toolchanger equipped machine preferably with a tailstock. I am actually selling my 12x36 lathe right now to help afford it. I am not really that Set on any particular machine really tho.. Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Uli,
Tried to respond to your PM but apparently you must have Private messaging turned off to receive or something else is wrong.

Pete

[pete from TN]

Well another update here. It's a nice Halloween weekend here in East Tennessee and it is pretty cold today. We even got some snow last night. Things are going well in the shop and we are making parts for several different interests. The big news here tho is that we managed to sell my trusty 12x36 asian lathe locally on craigslist and I used the money to buy a nice used CNC lathe. I got a basically gutted electronically speaking 14x40 CNC lathe made by HH Roberts/Standard Modern. The machine is ugly and dirty but physically it is in great shape. I picked it up from a machinery dealer in Kentucky and delivered it to my shop on the back of a rented Uhaul flat trailer. We unloaded it with come-a-longs and my large engine crane. The machine weighs about 3k or so fully equipped. It has a paint job that looks like someone painted it with a mop. I have been cleaning and scrubbing it with green pads and simple green for several days now since it arrived and it is starting to look like something. The machine came with a 7.5 HP spindle motor and had AC servos on it. Some of that equipment is missing so I will be trying to source new stuff and I will be retrofitting the entire machine with linuxCNC and brand new drives. The whole machine will be run on single phase power as is the Cincinatti arrow 500 I have here. The machine has a D1-5 spindle face and the runout on the spindle seems to be very very good from my manual measurements so far. The encosure has a sliding chuck guard that is pretty cool but there are some pieces of the sheetmetal enclosure missing which I will have to remake myself.

I am very pleased to have a new machine here I have been wanting a nice CNC lathe for the shop for awhile and even considered retrofitting the 12x36 I had here but this machine is much bigger and more powerful and it was born a CNC lathe so it is just a matter of cleaning and adjusting and installing all the new electronics on it. With any luck this will go quickly and I will be able to offer some really cool lathe turned parts here in the shop. It is going to take a little while as I plan to refinish the whole machine as I cannot stand the paint job. I have already started stripping quite a bit of it and I am now ready to start spraying some fresh paint on it soon.

My WONDERFUL wife helped me today out in the shop. The shop has been an utter disaster area since the moving out of the old lathe and getting the new lathe moved in. We also just purchased a brand new air conditioning system for the house and it was also out there since it got delivered the other day. So basically we spent an entire day out there cleaning and moving and organizing the shop and I cannot believe it is the same shop. It is like a different shop now and we made room I did not even know I had out there. It will be wonderful to work out there and make the retrofit on the lathe happen now. I cannot wait to see this bad boy make some swarf.

Right now the plan is to buy all brand new motors and drives for the X and Z axes and probably another Hitachi Sensorless vector drive for the spindle motor and build an atom board PC into the enclosure with Mesa 5i25/7i77 combo to run the whole show. The machine does have a nice chip and flood coolant enclosure but they must have lost or sold the coolant trough that sits in the tailstock end of the cabinet. I will need to get another one and a suitable pump for it. The machine has a nice spindle encoder built in and it is still there so other than that it will be the basic 2 axis lathe retrofit. Once the machine is working and making parts I will then be looking at adding some sort of cross slide mounted tool changer to the machine so I can do things a lot more automatically. This should be an interesting build. UNfortunately there is no HH Roberts or Standard Modern category here on the zone so I am not sure where I can chronicle the build. Either way we are on our way already with it and hopefully in a couple weeks or months we will have a nice accurate CNC lathe for the shop. Peace

Pete

[TOTALLYRC]

Hi Pete, Look forward to watching this machine come to fruition.
Nice to see things working out in the end.

Mike

[Tkamsker]

Hi so the machine has no toolchanger at all ? Or you get it a New One ? I am about to do similar venture so i stay tuend ,..


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[pete from TN]

Thanks guys,
No this lathe does not come with a toolchanger. I plan to add one of the cross slide mounted CNC turrets to it to make it a toolchanger lathe. There are quite a few offerings like this out there from many companies and some have even built their own. The basic lathe is quite nice and pretty heavy duty for its size. I wanted to get a CNC turning center in here but most have more than 20 HP and I do not really have the power available to run both the Cincinatti and the lathe so I had to make a choice here. For what I do this lathe is a bit more usable for me. It has a tailstock and a reasonably long bed so I can do more than just up against the chuck work on it. I can turn a long shaft or do custom barrel work or whatever. I plan to add a pneumatic collet closer as well at some point. For my needs this should do the vast majority of what I need. I had the chance to buy a small turning center locally actually for a bit more cash but it was quite a bit older and a helluva lot heavier as well as the horsepower issue so I chose this route. If I get a lot of cnc lathe work going here and it turns out I should have bought a turning center I should be able to sell this lathe once it is retrofitted pretty quick as it is a nice machine. I can always upgrade if I need to.

Today I will be doing some more cleaning and scrubbing on it and trying to get the sheetmetal pieces cleaned up and ready for some fresh paint. The shop being all clean and organized is a huge plus for working out there. It is pretty cold here today and I am going to heat up the shop so I can be comfortable out there working. If you make a build thread on your lathe build please post it here so we can check it out or at least link us to it. Good luck man. Peace

Pete

[TOTALLYRC]

I am in the process of reclaiming lost floor space as well, I mean cleaning and selling stuff.

Mike

[Al_The_Man]

Some time ago I downloaded the lathe toolchanger that a link is often found here, but the site seems to have disappeared from a guy in Germany. it was Revolver_Komplett.zip.
But I still have the Acad files for it.
It looked like a pretty decent build.
Al.

[pete from TN]

Al,
Is this a plan for a toolchanger or a machine configuration for one? Either way I am always interested in hearing and seeing new ideas. If you have It I would be appreciative. Thanks for the idea. peace

Pete

[Al_The_Man]

It is the mechanical drawings in Acad .DWG format for a six station lathe tool changer, it may help also doing a search to see if any improvements are out there.
Al.

[pete from TN]

Thanks AL,
Appreciate it. Not sure If I want to build or buy right now. Gotta get the rest of the machine working up to snuff first before I worry about it. Nice to have options tho. peace

Pete

[slowlearner]

Pete,
Who did you purchase the Teco drives from for your vmc?

[pete from TN]

Slow,
I bought the Teco drives, AC servomotors, and completed cables with Milspec barrel connectors all from Machmotion. So far they have performed flawlessly. I would buy them again and I honestly want to get them for my new CNC lathe retrofit but unfortunately the motors on this machine are smaller nema 34 750 watt and 1kw motors so they do not really offer anything like that as far as I know. I am going to be looking for a suitable inexpensive decent drive and motor combination for the machine and try to get it retrofitted here as soon as funds allow. Working on the sheetmetal stripping the electronics cabinet and repainting the tins now. This should be a really sweet CNC lathe for my shop. Hope this answers your question. Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

From my family to yours I wish all of you the best of the season. I have been slowly working on designing the switch panel on the Cincinatti as I want to add a lot more I/O switches and knobs to control a lot of the things I now do with the industrial keyboard I bought for it. Hopefully I can get that finished and machine the plate for it here soon. I am also working at refinishing the sheetmetal panels of the new Standard Modern lathe I bought and getting it ready for use. It does need some work but it looks like I got a really nice lathe.

Got some more prototype work finished. I suck at taking good pictures but I am attaching them so you guys can see it! It has a brushed finish on it but I also do a bead blasted finish as well. This is the second version of it the first was a dovetail top this is the Picatinny top rail. Peace and Happy Thankgiving!!

Pete

[gd.marsh]

Beautiful gun Pete,

And I really like the riser .. need to make one for my new bullpup.
I haven't done any serious benchrest with my PCP's, mostly backyard paper punching & some small rodent hunting out here in AZ.
Been following your journey with the Cinci from the beginning, great to hear you're having some success with it. Hope the new lathe works out the same.

Gary