[zagitazz]

I've set aside a total of $2000 bucks for buying a decent Milling machine and for converting it to a CNC. I'm a newbie so I thought that I'd get some help and advice from the pros here. I want to include everything in my budget required to start up (everything adds up) I'm pretty handy, but I have zero experience with machining other than shop class in high school and a class I took up at Rolla. I want to have the ability to machine aluminum, plastic, (maybe even 1/8" steel?) parts for building RC cars/plane/robot without having to outsource or borrow machines. I've got a list of parts and prices that I came up with after researching a bit. I'd appreciate any comments on where I can get better deals or if you suggest a different machine that would be an upgrade but would stay within my budget. Thanks!

These prices include shipping!

Harbor Freight Mini Mill $621.93
Little Machine Shop Mini Mill Starter Kit $105.86
Little Machine Shop Belt Conversion Kit $150
Probotix 3-Axis SideStep 180 Stepper Motor Driver Kit with ready to run large enclosure $416.59
CNC Fusion Mini-Mill CNC kit #2 $597
Total $1891.38

[109jb]

In addition to what you have listed, you will need a vise, tooling (end mills, drills, etc.), dial indicator, micrometers, calipers, R8 collets or holders for the tooling. There is an endless list of what you could get, but some of this stuff is pretty much mandatory.

I think the mill comes with a drill chuck and arbor, but if it doesn't, you will need that too.

[zagitazz]

Thanks for the reply 109jb!

I'm glad you told me that about the tooling and vice, jeez that's obvious!

I've got calipers and a micrometer. What would I need the dial indicator for?

My price is inflating as expected. Maybe harbor freight will have one of those 10-20% off deals soon?

Harbor Freight Mini Mill 621.93
Tooling Package, R8 Mini Mill Essentials 263.65
Little Machine Shop Belt Conversion Kit 150
Probotix Motors and Controls 416.59
CNC Fusion X2 Conversion Kit 597
Total 2049.17

[109jb]

You need at least one dial indicator to tram in the machine. One item I forgot was a precision square. It is clamped to the table with one leg pointing up. Then the dial indicator fixed to the head and the head raised up and down. In one direction this squares up the column to the table side to side. In the other direction it squares it in the fore aft direction. Once the column is square, you then fix the dial indicator to the spindle but out to the side like a flycutter with the probe end of it facing down. you then swing this around on the table to get the spindle square to the table. Most people use a tramming device for squaring the spindle. I'm sure you could find a video on youtube that shows how to tram in one of these type mills.

Here is a link showing tramming on different machines.

Tramming a Mill

[hoss2006]

You can find lots of x2 related info here including this on tramming.
http://www.hossmachine.info/Shop_Info.html#tramming
Hoss

[mattm55]

I also see you didn't mention a PC or s/w either. You could grab open source s/w and run on Linux with a low budget PC.

Yeah, my budget went thru the roof and still is going but hey, it'll be worth it when done. I'm looking to do some 1/4 scale race DIRT cars when I'm done.

Hang with it and buy as you need.... great forum for LOTS of info here.

Enjoy, Matt

[zagitazz]

Thanks 109jb and Hoss, this is all very useful info! I'll need to refer back to this when I set up the machine and do the tramming. Matt, I have a computer that I built a while back that's sitting around so It'll be perfect to use with this. The probotix kit comes with a free CD with EMC2 CAM software, but it looks like it's only for linux? I have windows 7 installed. I've got a couple CAD programs already installed on my computer too.

[lukewarm]

EMC2 isn't CAM software it is the Enhanced Machine Controller (comparable to MACH3).

Also regardless if you go with a windows based controller (MACH3) or Linux based (EMC2) you will need to test your computer for latency. This is a very important issue, and you best start looking into it now because even new computers don't necessarily have great latency and this effects your stepper motor performance.

[awerby]

If you want to save yourself some headaches, look at the CNC-ready Taig mills. Unlike some of these Chinese machines you're considering, it's ready to attach motors and run. The 2019 CR-ER has travels of 12" X, 4.5" Y, 6" Z and an ER-16 spindle that goes up to 10K rpm. It lists for $1100; I sell it for $1000 within the USA. Get a Gecko 540, put it in an enclosure and add some motors, Mach3 and a dumpster-grade computer, and you've got a working CNC mill capable of cutting plastics, aluminum or steel, well within your budget.

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

[zagitazz]

Lukewarm,

Thanks for the reply

So does the probotix kit require linux to be on my computer?
I'm assuming since it lists EMC2 under "CNC Control Software" that means that it does require linux? or can I use Mach 3 with it? I know nothing about the software, sorry.

3-Axis SideStep 180 Stepper Motor Driver Kit - 3-Axis SideStep 180 Stepper Motor Driver Kit

Also, maybe I'm getting outside of the topics of this thread, but how to I test for latency?

[109jb]

EMC comes with a utility to check latency. Not sure about Mach3 since I don't use it.

[zagitazz]

awerby,

Headaches aside, isn't the taig a less capable machine than the x2? I guess that would be my main concern going with a taig.

[lukewarm]

Zagi Mach3 has a program you run that checks your system to see if it is capable of running it. I don't know exactly how this works as I solely use EMC2 and highly recommend it to anyone even half computer savvy.

I BELIEVE the EMC disc provided with the Probotix package installs Linux and EMC2 already configured for your stepper drivers. It should be a very painless install. Again keep an open mind, Mach3 is great but EMC is just a lot more robust and configurable. I think the guy who sells these packages is named Len, and I've heard he is very helpful if you have questions about your purchase.

[zagitazz]

thanks lukewarm. I just don't want to have to dual boot linux if it's not necessary...guess I'll do a trial install, do the system check thing, and maybe ask len

[lukewarm]

What about dedicating your one computer to a CNC controller and not dual booting?

[zagitazz]

I saw this deal for a little machine shop version of the mini mill that has a larger table, better motor, belt drive, and includes a solid column...seems to address all of the problems people were mentioning about the mini mill...in addition it comes with a bunch of tooling! $1116 seems like a really good deal, let me know what you guys think:

LittleMachineShop.com - HiTorque Mini Mill, Solid Column with Tooling Package

Also, I was looking at the G0704 which is yet another step up. Obviously it's more money, but I think I can afford it. Just not sure if the money I have left will be enough to set aside for a good tooling package, etc.

[wizard]

awerby,

Headaches aside, isn't the taig a less capable machine than the x2? I guess that would be my main concern going with a taig.

I just got started with this thread and my first concern seems to be that you are jumping into this mill real fast. You mentioned quarter scale RC which to me is a fairly large models and then you express concerns about the Taig. This makes me wonder if you need a capacity greater than X2 class hardware. On the flip side the Taig does have a faster spindle which can be an advantage working the materials you are talking about.

Let's face it if $2000 is your budget, and you are starting out with very little in your shop you have a tough problem. This is just a suggestion but I'd consider a slightly larger mill and tooling purchases first and then CNC next year. You will easily blow your budget with just tooling, tools and documents.

So why do I say that, well you will need the following fairly soon after the mill arrives: A milling machine vise, a collet set, tooling in the form of endmills and drill bits, a caliper, micrometer (maybe a set), one of more dial indicators, hand tools of various types, a machinist square, layout and alignment tools, possibly a fly cutter or two, a tool box and other storage, deburring tools (maybe a belt sander) and other goodies. Now some of this can be had cheap even new, but it does add up. On top of that some items really need to be of higher quality. For example don't skimp on dial test indicators and your calipers.

Now I'm assuming that you have some of these items covered already. Still it is very easy to blow any budget when first getting started. In any event forcing yourself to manually machine parts is a good learning experience for a few months. The obvious problem is that CNC allows you to do some really neat things cheaply. Still getting the feel for machining is an education you can leverage when the CNC function is there.

The other option would be to just inflate your budget a bit.

[zagitazz]

Wizard,

Yeah I had most of that covered, but some of it I did not. I never mentioned anything about 1/4 scale RC. Having said that, it doesn't really matter, because most of what you said is probably right. I think it does make sense to get a more capable machine and spend more on tooling/parts initially and just control manually for a while. I could (and probably will) convert to a CNC later. Perhaps I should step it up a bit on the mill size/quality, got any suggestions? I'm not trying to rush or anything, just trying to make an informed decision based on opinions from experienced guys like you!

[diyengineer]

Have you been searching craigslist and auctions/surplus/ebay for a used mill? you can pick of crazy deals if you look long enough and really get a bang for your buck. gotta be crafty! haha What kinda Space/shop/area is this machine going into?

[awerby]

awerby,

Headaches aside, isn't the taig a less capable machine than the x2? I guess that would be my main concern going with a taig.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "capable". If you're planning to convert it to CNC, you'd want something capable of that, to start with. That's what I meant by headaches. Read through some of the conversion logs people have put up, like Hossmachine_Cnc Conversion , Will's Mini-mill, or Converting an X2 Mini-Mill to CNC referring to how they had to carve away material to fit different nuts, or replace the plastic spindle gears with belt drives, purchasing and installing new thrust bearings and couplers, timing pulleys and belts, new acme or ballscrews to replace the coarse and inaccurate leadscrews, purchasing or fabricating motor mounts, installing a mechanism to replace the drill-press type Z-axis quill actuator - this can all take more time, equipment and money than you'd think.

But headaches aside, there's really not much the X2 can do that the Taig 2019 can't. The X2 is smaller, except in the Z direction; here's a comparison chart: Mini Mill Versions . And that extra height translates into less rigidity, although the frame is heavier. It might be able to take a somewhat heavier cut than the Taig, but that's a much bigger issue with a manual mill than a CNC machine, where multiple light cuts are the rule.

The Taig, on the other hand, has a much faster spindle. This is a key advantage for making small, detailed parts, which is probably what you want a small CNC machine for. If you're using a 1/8" cutter, for instance, you can feed 4 times as fast with the Taig's 10,000 RPM spindle than with the X2's 2500 RPMs. It has precise fine-thread leadscrews, unlike the ones on the Seig which most converters end up replacing. Ballscrews can be better, but only the very expensive precision-ground and preloaded ballscrews actually are. Replacing the lead screws with cheap ballscrew/nut units intended for use as garage door openers will reduce the load on the motors, but will probably reduce accuracy considerably, as these things are subject to large pitch variations or "thread drunkenness" as it's poetically called. The sliding surfaces on the Taig are ready to run smoothly, unlike the ones on these cheap Chinese-made manual machines which can be regarded as a kit, ready for lapping and scraping. In general, the made-in-USA Taig is a far more capable mill, especially when used as a CNC machine.

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software