[SBC Cycle]

I have used V20 for many years now, for what I do I really do not need to upgrade. I recently wanted to make some gears, and V20 was limited, V21 did a decent job for me. I wanted to see the latest version, got the demo fully aware that I would be called non stop and should have used a fake number. Non stop calls to my office, they got my cell off my machine then started on that number non stop till I finally answered just to put an end to it. First sentences from the guy are complete lies that make me just want to never ever use this software. You are seriously going to tell me that I was 'just selected as one of a few customers to receive significant discounts'. I mean, I would be willing to talk about a sale if the guy would just be honest and say hey let's see what you can afford and I will try to work something out. Don't just lie to me that I was randomly selected. I have been down this sales road with bobcad and detest the company for that reason alone. Plain out lies and deception. This was this week, so I am not sure what you guys mean by saying they have improved their sales procedures.

It is unfortunate that a decent software has such a full of **** front end interaction to go through. If you want to insult customers, maybe a bit of prescreening would be a good idea before you start out with both barrels of 'here is anther dumb ass client' shells.

Bobcad, you have some good guys on the support side. The software is good. But as a company, I despise you and you could have made sales this week if you did not call my cell all day and treat me like a complete moron with this sales bs.

I stopped getting calls when I upgraded Win-win?

If you look back earlier in this thread, Engine Guy shared his experience which was the same as mine. After I downloaded the demo, the call came in. I ANSWERED IT. I told them I was evaluating and to give me until the Demo ran out. They never called me until that day. I bought it, didn't haggle too much either, and now I'm using it every day. Haven't got a call since (except for the training folks, I told them not to call back about V24 training as I was now a V25 customer. That fixed that too).

I just don't understand the logic of letting the phone ring. This is a small business too (no secretary). That's why I don't ignore calls, they lead to more.

[aldepoalo]

originator,

I understand your concern with the phone calls. If a client downloads our software we call them. When you avoid the call, the salesman sets an alarm to call you back, which they continue to do until they make contact. Answering the first call stops the rest of the calls. If you let the sales team know what's going on like SBC did, you'll find they will handled your account accordingly.

[waterjetsa]

I bought the V25 version and use it with Mach 3.
Everytime when I write a program(program set to mm) and start it up in mach 3 the program starts running in inches. I then have to pause the program, change my settings to mm and then resume the cutting. Why is that?
Where can I find info on how to program a 3D part, nowhere on the website(bobcad) have I been able to anything on that.

[aldepoalo]

What is going on here is you post is setup for inches not metric. Even through the drawing is in metric your post is setup for inch.

You can download a metric post processor off our website. Or you can edit your post yourself.

When posting, there is a variable to post in inch or metric or what ever the drawing is set to.

The post you are using must be setup for inch and this is why even through your drawing is in metric, you code is coming out in inches.

Please let me know if that answers you question.

[waterjetsa]

Thanks Al,
I will try that and let you know.

[aldepoalo]

measurement = Output measurement mode (inch/metric). Inch defined in "G Codes/Inch mode:" & "G Codes/Metric mode:".

[tlharris]

So, I've been watching the discussion on v25. I recognize that I'll more than likely break down and buy it, but we're getting along pretty happily with v24 for the moment. It's not perfect, but I'm new enough to CNC and BobCAD that the constraint is *me*, not BobCAD.
What I'm really interested in, is how stable is V25? There was a lot of babble about constant crashing, etc. at first. I'm not interested so much in philosophical rants about BobCAD beta-testing, so much as... is the current update / version / release appropriate for a production environment? We don't push BobCAD all that hard, but we also don't want to put up with crashes all day, either. Real world experience, anyone?

On other fronts, the truth is that I would have already upgraded if I didn't feel so bad about the sales folks. Yes, 'despise' is a word that jumps to mind. I appreciate Al being here and making the effort. I also appreciate a lot of you Burrs and Gerrys out there who take the time to contribute. I've learned more from you guys than you can imagine. My CAM experience is limited to some MasterCAM X and BobCAD v24. I think BobCAM was a capable product at the right price point, and I do hope to see them make an adjustment to their sales tactics. I'm not holding my breath, but it sure would be nice. There's just no need, IMO. They have a good product. Treat people respectfully and they'd do just fine.

Peace.
Todd

[The Engine Guy]

So, I've been watching the discussion on v25. I recognize that I'll more than likely break down and buy it, but we're getting along pretty happily with v24 for the moment. It's not perfect, but I'm new enough to CNC and BobCAD that the constraint is *me*, not BobCAD.
What I'm really interested in, is how stable is V25? There was a lot of babble about constant crashing, etc. at first. I'm not interested so much in philosophical rants about BobCAD beta-testing, so much as... is the current update / version / release appropriate for a production environment? We don't push BobCAD all that hard, but we also don't want to put up with crashes all day, either. Real world experience, anyone?

On other fronts, the truth is that I would have already upgraded if I didn't feel so bad about the sales folks. Yes, 'despise' is a word that jumps to mind. I appreciate Al being here and making the effort. I also appreciate a lot of you Burrs and Gerrys out there who take the time to contribute. I've learned more from you guys than you can imagine. My CAM experience is limited to some MasterCAM X and BobCAD v24. I think BobCAM was a capable product at the right price point, and I do hope to see them make an adjustment to their sales tactics. I'm not holding my breath, but it sure would be nice. There's just no need, IMO. They have a good product. Treat people respectfully and they'd do just fine.

Peace.
Todd

Todd


I think you will find that the Sales Team have now adopted a much more "Customer Friendly" system, you may have seen my own and other posts describing the way our last purchases were handled, right from downloading the software Demo to the final "stumpming up" of the cash.

Very polite, efficient and only contacted at the times/days specified by myself and others. Example, I downloaded, got the call the day after, Salesperson asked to call again on a specific day when I have had time to evaluate, call came only on the day specified and between the times stated, when I had some questions to ask the sales person transferred me to a Tech who could answer, all OK so back to the salesperson, price agreed and then transferred to the nice lady that takes the money, all done nice and polite with all my questions answered then and there, all in all a pretty painless process.

Give them another chance, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the current system, especially if you may have had a not so good experience in the past, everyone learns and moves "onward and upward" as they say and I`m no exception

Regards

[SBC Cycle]

So, I've been watching the discussion on v25. I recognize that I'll more than likely break down and buy it, but we're getting along pretty happily with v24 for the moment. It's not perfect, but I'm new enough to CNC and BobCAD that the constraint is *me*, not BobCAD.
What I'm really interested in, is how stable is V25? There was a lot of babble about constant crashing, etc. at first. I'm not interested so much in philosophical rants about BobCAD beta-testing, so much as... is the current update / version / release appropriate for a production environment? We don't push BobCAD all that hard, but we also don't want to put up with crashes all day, either. Real world experience, anyone?

...snip...

Peace.
Todd

For what it's worth, I'm back to V24 for the time being. I won't get in to too many details but unless I need the "Adaptive Roughing" feature, I'm going to wait for an update. Even then, I keep getting "CAM tree Failed to Load!" so I'm starting from scratch with old files if I want to work in V25 or I have to edit the NC code in the program and mark them to be fixed later when they get it patched.

But the biggest problem? If I set a clearance plane at 4" to clear a clamp, it better go there. V25 is not doing it. About half the features are ignoring the clearance on approach after a tool change. I've tried all the posts I can get my hands on (doesn't matter anyway, I can see the errant move in the CL file) and nothing will get rid of the problem.

V25 has been stable though. No big crashes to report. It's just dumb things that are broken.

I'm waiting for V25.1 to save me some antacid.

EDIT: And as Rob said before, Sales was not a problem for me. The training department was annoying until I told them I was a V25 user and quit calling about V24 training.

[DonW]

V25 is not an "Update" to V24. It is an entirley new version. They have been discussing it's release for awhile now. But none of us were given a date. Many developers dont give "dates". It leads to upset and upheaval when the date is not met...

To some degree that is true, but to some it's not. The new versions are usually the same software as the prior versions, with a few new features and bug fixes. In my world, it's not really a new version unless it is totally different. That said, this seems to be the most radical change since I got on board with the V2007 debacle thing, which was replaced with V22, then 23, then 24. And I still maintain that people who own prior versions shouldn't have their product upgrades (bug fixes) stopped just because there's a new version. That's like holding your customers hostage and making them pay to have the issues fixed instead of taking responsibility for the product you've sold. If it's a new "version" being sold, then support of the old version shouldn't cease for at least another year or two. At some point every software company stops supporting old products, but it's usually a few years down the road.

I've maintained over the years that I would prefer to pay a flat fee every year to get a combination of (tech) support and all upgrades for the whole year, AKA know as a Support and Maintenance Contract. What would that amount be? For me, I'm willing to fork out (now don't laugh) around $3-400 every year IF I get everything upgraded and have tech support for the whole year. I'm highly reluctant to spend money every year for an upgrade (and it is every year that BCC somes out with a new "version" that they want to upgrade me to) and then get hit with an additional charge for tech support. I've only needed support maybe twice in all the years I've had the products, so it's like paying for an insurance policy that I never get to collect on.

I'm using V24 right now, which I purchased in December of 2011 when it was on sale. I didn't get around to installing it until around March or April, had an issue with it, and found that they wouldn't support the product because my 90 days tech support was up. I don't like that they give you 90 days from the date of purchase instead of 90 days from the date of installation. I was left to fend for myself and get help outside the BobCAD company, or pay a big chunk of change for support. I found help outside BC. I rarely ever use tech support, but I guess it's nice to have it if you need it.

I'm mostly a hobby user, but do a small amount of work for other people with my CNC. But I can't keep pumping out larger sums of money for *upgrades* to software that I've only owned for a few months. For the kind of money they seem to want now, I could just about buy a program like Alibre, or some other more powerful CAD program. I like some of the things I've seen in the V25 advertising videos, but for me it's just too much $ to spend on an upgrade (er, new *version* )
;-)

I've been in contact with a salesman from BC the last week or two, and I have to say I'm a bit put off by the Hard Sell I've gotten. He's not my normal guy, and I don't like to work with someone other than the guy I've been buying from since the beginning. I also don't like getting sales or personal calls at my job, and that was an issue several times when my cell phone would ring there while I was working with someone else at my desk. I asked them not to call me during the day, but I still got three calls at work on my cell phone after I made that request. I finally got a call last night in the middle of making dinner, and I had to respectfully give all the reasons why I didn't need or really want the new upgrade, but it was mostly due to the sales strategy being employed, and the price structure.

I'll take the upgrade please, but not at the "better than than 3X the price of my last upgrade" price. For that kind of money, I'd want a lot more functionality, like the Pro version, all the better toolpaths (which a woodworker like myself won't use much) and another couple of licenses, and a year's tech support too. Give me that kind of value, and I'll upgrade every year without blinking or hesitation. Oh, and 4 and 5 axis functionality too.
(just had to throw that in there. I could care less about that)

I only wish I had a 64bit OS to take advantage of the functional capabilities in V25....and I think it's great that they're moving in the right direction with the product improvements. Still looking for some more advanced drawing tool functionality, but I get by just fine with what is there, and can't really complain about that. I applaud their efforts to bring some beginning level of parametric drawing capability to the software, and to me that's pretty big. I hope to someday see the new features in action for myself.

[BurrMan]

To some degree that is true, but to some it's not. The new versions are usually the same software as the prior versions, with a few new features and bug fixes. In my world, it's not really a new version unless it is totally different.

I dont think you have a good understanding of how Cad/Cam systems are developed today. The fundamental building blocks are mostly component driven now. Mostly, these base components wont be changing but maybe 10-20 years depending on new technology that arises (usually based in the hardware and OS combination) A good display mesher can takes years to build and more to rub out. You dont just "rewrite that", unless it is simplistic in nature. That wont be true in a good cad/cam package.

So that world shrinks when entering that discussion.

That said, this seems to be the most radical change since I got on board with the V2007 debacle thing, which was replaced with V22, then 23, then 24. And I still maintain that people who own prior versions shouldn't have their product upgrades (bug fixes) stopped just because there's a new version. That's like holding your customers hostage and making them pay to have the issues fixed instead of taking responsibility for the product you've sold. If it's a new "version" being sold, then support of the old version shouldn't cease for at least another year or two. At some point every software company stops supporting old products, but it's usually a few years down the road.

I've maintained over the years that I would prefer to pay a flat fee every year to get a combination of (tech) support and all upgrades for the whole year, AKA know as a Support and Maintenance Contract. What would that amount be? For me, I'm willing to fork out (now don't laugh) around $3-400 every year IF I get everything upgraded and have tech support for the whole year. I'm highly reluctant to spend money every year for an upgrade (and it is every year that BCC somes out with a new "version" that they want to upgrade me to) and then get hit with an additional charge for tech support. I've only needed support maybe twice in all the years I've had the products, so it's like paying for an insurance policy that I never get to collect on.

I'm using V24 right now, which I purchased in December of 2011 when it was on sale. I didn't get around to installing it until around March or April, had an issue with it, and found that they wouldn't support the product because my 90 days tech support was up. I don't like that they give you 90 days from the date of purchase instead of 90 days from the date of installation. I was left to fend for myself and get help outside the BobCAD company, or pay a big chunk of change for support. I found help outside BC. I rarely ever use tech support, but I guess it's nice to have it if you need it.

I'm mostly a hobby user, but do a small amount of work for other people with my CNC. But I can't keep pumping out larger sums of money for *upgrades* to software that I've only owned for a few months. For the kind of money they seem to want now, I could just about buy a program like Alibre, or some other more powerful CAD program. I like some of the things I've seen in the V25 advertising videos, but for me it's just too much $ to spend on an upgrade (er, new *version* )
;-)

I've been in contact with a salesman from BC the last week or two, and I have to say I'm a bit put off by the Hard Sell I've gotten. He's not my normal guy, and I don't like to work with someone other than the guy I've been buying from since the beginning. I also don't like getting sales or personal calls at my job, and that was an issue several times when my cell phone would ring there while I was working with someone else at my desk. I asked them not to call me during the day, but I still got three calls at work on my cell phone after I made that request. I finally got a call last night in the middle of making dinner, and I had to respectfully give all the reasons why I didn't need or really want the new upgrade, but it was mostly due to the sales strategy being employed, and the price structure.

I'll take the upgrade please, but not at the "better than than 3X the price of my last upgrade" price. For that kind of money, I'd want a lot more functionality, like the Pro version, all the better toolpaths (which a woodworker like myself won't use much) and another couple of licenses, and a year's tech support too. Give me that kind of value, and I'll upgrade every year without blinking or hesitation. Oh, and 4 and 5 axis functionality too.
(just had to throw that in there. I could care less about that)

I only wish I had a 64bit OS to take advantage of the functional capabilities in V25....and I think it's great that they're moving in the right direction with the product improvements. Still looking for some more advanced drawing tool functionality, but I get by just fine with what is there, and can't really complain about that. I applaud their efforts to bring some beginning level of parametric drawing capability to the software, and to me that's pretty big. I hope to someday see the new features in action for myself.

Hard to sift through most of this. I'll try to stick to basics.

V25 "IS" very different with entirely new components integrated in (Moduleworks). It is absolutly different than V24 and not the same in any way. The UCS/stock intergration (aka machine setups) is different.

It has also been stated that V24 is still in development cycle. They will be releasing another update to it. This seems to be in conflict with most of your post here.

It has been my experience that any version released is updated until stable before development stops. Support for past versions is still there also. I think they go back to the stone ages of "V19", but you have to pay for that.. This is the same for pretty much MOST software vendors.

The claim that a new or different lead-in to a toolpath is a "bug fix" because you wished/wanted/thought in was/should be in your previous version is a discarded claim for me. Please dont invoke me into any type of discussion relating to this. Download the demo, see what it can do, proceed.

The old "filled with bugs" previous version needs to be addressed with me also. You will need to present a file with example geometry and toolpath and a description of the "bugs". Otherwise, leave me out of it. It's just wasted words. Everytime I ask for this, I get none.

Finally, as a cad/cam software company makes decisions to progress to another level, these decisions will involve core components of there package. BobCad moving towards Moduleworks is a big step, although more costly to us, the user. (You wont get the parasolds modeling kernel added as functionality without immediatly tacking on around $2000.00, non-negotiably.) The statement that you want everything now and future for a couple hundred bucks, is fairly rediculaous with this in mind, unless you wanted them to remain basic in nature, with the old, less powerful functionality. Surley you can still buy V19 somewhere if you want that.

[DonW]

Burr,

I wasn't "involving you" in my post except about the initial quote about versions vs updates... Sorry if it appeared that way. I have too much respect for you and have received too much help from you to take that tack. Humble apologies.

The whole version thing is a matter of perception. I'm an accountant, and my accounting software doesn't get a new version once a year that salesmen call us about to sell to us. We pay handsomely for the software, then have a maintenance contract every year, and all upgrades/updates and support are part of that annual contract. I do agree that V25 is a very different product than V24, so to me this is a *Real* New Version, worthy of the phrase. I didn't think that about V23-V24, which is more on par with an "update" in my mind. There wasn't that much difference except for the look of it, and the more customized menu system. So I don't argue that the update to V25 is worth more than the update from V23 to V24. It is, if it does all it claims, and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

As to the support of older versions, I had read a few places that they weren't supporting the older versions for more than a few months or even at most a year after releasing the new version. If that isn't true, then I'm more than delighted to be wrong.

And no, I'm not that well-versed in CAD/CAM packages as far as how they are being developed these days. I didn't make any claims to be. I'm mostly on the fringes here, and am trying to get educated about this new product.

I upgraded to V24 from V23 (again, to me an "update") without any hesitation, because for me the price was right and I wanted to stay current as much as possible. The price they are asking for the new V25 is more than what I paid for the software initially, so to me it's like having to buy it all over again. If I were making a bunch of money with my CNC, I could easily justify the expense, and even as a hobbyist I can justify a certain amount of money every year, (indeed, I have a budget every year for updates) but it seems to have hit a level where I'm getting uncomfortable with the price for an update, and it makes me think that perhaps it's worth looking at alternatives. Not to say that I will get something different necessarily...I like my V24, even though it frequently crashes on me especially when trying to create a skin surface, but I recognize that I've still got a pretty good product for the money and it has less issues and runs more smoothly than V23 did for the most part.

I would never claim that a new or different lead-in or tool path is a bug fix...I simply don't know enough about those things. And I've never said that I thought that the product was filled with bugs...that must have been someone else.
The software may have bugs, but all software does to some degree. And I use so little of it compared to many here that those things may never affect me. For me, the worst thing that I experience is the crash during a surface generation, and also failures in boolean operations that seem like they should work. That said, I understand how finicky those things can be, and any little issue can cause a failure. Knowing that, I've learned different ways to approach a problem and tackle things in ways that work better, for the most part. Perhaps most of those issues can be traced to me having bad geometry, I don't know. But there have been many instances where I've tried to do a skin surface and I end up with a Microsoft message asking me if I want to report the problem after BC has failed and closed. That may not even be a bug, it might be a video driver issue for all I know.

Oh...and I disagree with the notion that people are "suckered into" the purchase of the new V25 version. You either want the new functionality and can utilize it, or not. People can say "No" and are free to do so.

[SeanDa]

We support quite a few softwares from quite a few years back. Here is a list:

V19Wire
V21-V25

We don't just stop supporting a product until is significantly antiquated to the point when it is not being used by a large number of the customer base.

[BurrMan]

Burr,

I wasn't "involving you" in my post except about the initial quote about versions vs updates... Sorry if it appeared that way. I have too much respect for you and have received too much help from you to take that tack. Humble apologies.

The whole version thing is a matter of perception. I'm an accountant, and my accounting software doesn't get a new version once a year that salesmen call us about to sell to us. We pay handsomely for the software, then have a maintenance contract every year, and all upgrades/updates and support are part of that annual contract. I do agree that V25 is a very different product than V24, so to me this is a *Real* New Version, worthy of the phrase. I didn't think that about V23-V24, which is more on par with an "update" in my mind. There wasn't that much difference except for the look of it, and the more customized menu system. So I don't argue that the update to V25 is worth more than the update from V23 to V24. It is, if it does all it claims, and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

As to the support of older versions, I had read a few places that they weren't supporting the older versions for more than a few months or even at most a year after releasing the new version. If that isn't true, then I'm more than delighted to be wrong.

And no, I'm not that well-versed in CAD/CAM packages as far as how they are being developed these days. I didn't make any claims to be. I'm mostly on the fringes here, and am trying to get educated about this new product.

I upgraded to V24 from V23 (again, to me an "update") without any hesitation, because for me the price was right and I wanted to stay current as much as possible. The price they are asking for the new V25 is more than what I paid for the software initially, so to me it's like having to buy it all over again. If I were making a bunch of money with my CNC, I could easily justify the expense, and even as a hobbyist I can justify a certain amount of money every year, (indeed, I have a budget every year for updates) but it seems to have hit a level where I'm getting uncomfortable with the price for an update, and it makes me think that perhaps it's worth looking at alternatives. Not to say that I will get something different necessarily...I like my V24, even though it frequently crashes on me especially when trying to create a skin surface, but I recognize that I've still got a pretty good product for the money and it has less issues and runs more smoothly than V23 did for the most part.

I would never claim that a new or different lead-in or tool path is a bug fix...I simply don't know enough about those things. And I've never said that I thought that the product was filled with bugs...that must have been someone else.
The software may have bugs, but all software does to some degree. And I use so little of it compared to many here that those things may never affect me. For me, the worst thing that I experience is the crash during a surface generation, and also failures in boolean operations that seem like they should work. That said, I understand how finicky those things can be, and any little issue can cause a failure. Knowing that, I've learned different ways to approach a problem and tackle things in ways that work better, for the most part. Perhaps most of those issues can be traced to me having bad geometry, I don't know. But there have been many instances where I've tried to do a skin surface and I end up with a Microsoft message asking me if I want to report the problem after BC has failed and closed. That may not even be a bug, it might be a video driver issue for all I know.

Oh...and I disagree with the notion that people are "suckered into" the purchase of the new V25 version. You either want the new functionality and can utilize it, or not. People can say "No" and are free to do so.

Ok Don, the rehashing of, for me, a dis-tastful thread, with a quote from me, kindof threw me. Starting over.

V24 actually WAS a big jump. Much moreso than a "new look". The CAD didnt change much, we got "quick trim", but the CAm had alot of new things added. They actually first brought in Moduleworks there. All the toolpaths were upgraded and had feature additions too. This is an upgrade. (It costs them money to do this.) Like the humor you posted about BobCad including the new 5th axis in a deal for you. You were obviously kidding, but was also kindof insinuating that all this new stuff should be given away because you hadnt loaded V24 yet? Do you know you can call moduleworks? Call them and ask to license their 5th axis routines. When you purchase that agreement, maybe you will give it to BobCad so they can hand it out to us for free? BTW: You cant "buy customers". You have to win them!

If you have a problem with a skin, Maybe it's better for you to enter the forum with a file and ask "I try to skin this, and BobCad crashes. Anybody have any input"? Maybe there is an answer. Then you would think, "V24 works really well, I dont need V25 unless I need the time savings of the new stock/toolpath intergration and I would pay for that because it's valuable to me!" You could just use V24. (Unlike your other scenario where you would shovel out some money every year whether you needed it or not).

The accounting software is truely not the same. It doesnt equate.

[CaptainVee]

Wow, that is saying a lot. BobCAD CAM just like every other software company offers upgrades of there software to their client base. You have the choice to pick up the new version if you like. We do not penalize you if you don't stay current like other cam vendors. BobCAD offers free updates to the software version you purchase. If or when bug are found they are reported and fixed. This is common for all software vendors. BobCAD does offer an affordable price for all clients to get current. At this time we are not offering a Dongle for the V25. We are getting great feedback on the V25 and our client base loves this new version. I would recommend downloading a demo and taking a test drive.

Definately WOW. This is a textbook example how NOT to respond to a complaint.

You say that the OP is a fool and he is wrong.

And for a product manager you write very poorly. There is an enter button on your keyboard. Use it every now and then.

[aarggh]

Definately WOW. This is a textbook example how NOT to respond to a complaint.

You say that the OP is a fool and he is wrong.

And for a product manager you write very poorly. There is an enter button on your keyboard. Use it every now and then.

I'm having a great deal of trouble reconciling your assertions with the quoted text from "aldepoalo", was there more text missing that wasn't quoted? As I don't see how you could consider the quoted remarks so offensive, simple and to the point, perhaps not the best grammatically, but offensive?

cheers,
Ian

[BurrMan]

And for a product manager you write very poorly. There is an enter button on your keyboard. Use it every now and then.

Thats funny... Your user name is an abomination of any type of grammer or syntax. I would suggest Al not take ANY advice from you.

Please fix this and post an entire, proper paragraph before any further comment or review!

[CaptainVee]

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the way BC works for you. I'd like the opportunity to find a way to make you a happy customer again.

I have sent you a PM to get things started. If that does not reach you, please contact me by phone or email.

I also encourage others reading this thread that are in any way unhappy to do the same.
This will help us to keep our products at the high level of quality we strive for.

Note: aldepoalo did not write this but it should have been along these lines.

[aldepoalo]

CaptainVee,

I guess you've never gotten a PM from me....


This is an online user forum and it's environment is much like the shop floor, lot's of trash taking and general messing about.



I think there are some valid points about a maintenance contract vs upgrade path, these are topics BobCAD CAM as a company is looking into.



I don't claim any client is a fool or is wrong in their point of view. I only post in this forum to help clients and learn from them.

[dodger889]

You know after reading the different posts about the flaws or design of this software. I understand that cad and cam software is different in itself. And is quiet costly to produce. Here is a thought to put out there since this is such a different software I wonder why a software company has not done this is to build a completely independent os away from Microsoft OS. Yes this would be starting from scratch but this would give them the control of building a operating system that would give them full control of how it works and remove alot of the crashes that would happen using someone else OS design. Heck windows crashes by itself with out some thing else causing it. Oh yeah I think way outside the box. But those who stay in the box never know what is out there they could have done. Remember program and software is nothing more that one and zeros...... Logic at it's best on or off....