[Temo]

Hi there, I recently joined a small machine shop and they already have a Cincinnati-Milacron Hawk 150 lathe that doesnt work; owner has been fighting and with a very tight budget to get it working.

The very first problem is that we dont have image at the screen, according to the manual we have a flat screen.

A good guy send us a Control Reference Manual for the machine and going trough it as far as I can tell I have one of the lights in the BBB that stays red and it doesnt suppose to do this, according to the manual if it stays on red it means "WS Fail" where WS stands for Workstation.

But I cant find information about how to fix the WS Fail error.

Also I been trying to conect a external monitor and I can have an independent image to it.

I know that with some tips we can get the machine going, any help will be grately accepted... we are going nuts here.

Does anyone think that this might be a Hard disk drive failure and we need a new one?

Thanks in advance!!!

[uli12us]

If WS-fail stands for Workstaition failure, you can connect thousands of monitors and get no picture. I don't know, where the Cin. Computer are. If its behind the screen, then you must first remove the screen from the enclosure. After that you have to open the computer and look for visible defects, open and close each connector several times. Its not a fault, if you change the batteries.

[maver1ck]

It always helps to post additional information about your machine so people can point you in the correct direction. Things such as which control, vintage, etc. can make a big difference in helping.

Based on your post, I'm not sure if you are saying you are trying to hook one up, but can't figure out how, or if you are able to hook one up and get an image on it. Knowing which one will help figure out what you need to do next.

There were various different hardware versions in the A2100 control (which I'm assuming you have based on your post), and whether you can hook up an external monitor depends on which vintage you have. The earlier and later models used a standard monitor connector, which allows you to plug just about any PC monitor into it. Somewhere in the middle of the control's life, they went to a different connector which does not allow you to hook up a standard monitor.

To answer your question about this being a hard drive failure. No, a hard drive failure will not prevent the monitor from working, it will give you various other failures, but if your hard drive is bad, you will always still get the WS BIOS splash screen before it tries to access the hard drive.

[Temo]

More info about the machine:

Cincinnati Milacron
Hawk 150 built in 1998
Acramatic 2100

Software NT 4.0

Regarding the monitor, I'm trying to hook up one from a desktop, the plug is the same and the monitor tells me that its on "stand-by" like when a computer is in power save mode.

I have a Flat Panel OSA assembly for what I can figure out in the pics provided in the manual, and that is not getting image at all.

The MTB panel lights up all the leds just to die within seconds, we had a error message in the small LCD screen that read ERROR 00000010

I have unplugged and plug almos all concetions at this point, did saw one tha was not properly conected, its ok now.

Hope this helps and someone has had this problem in the past.

[maver1ck]

If you have interpreted what you read correctly, you have diagnosed it as a WS board Failure. Unless you know someone capable of working on PC boards, you'll be better off letting the professionals handle repairing it.

However, you wouldn't have posted the question if you were happy with that answer, so...

Have you physically inspected the WS board. If you see physical damage on it, you will need to send it out for repair.

Has anyone at the company actually seen this machine run? Was it working and one day the display went out (if so, anything significant when that happened, i.e. lightning, etc.), or did they buy it used and it wasn't working when it arrived?

You indicated you don't get an image on the display, but do you see anything on the screen to indicate any signal is getting to the display. For example, is there a momentary flash? This will be much easier to see if you have the LCD display. Older CRT's take too long to power up and display anything, so by the time they are powered up, the flash would be over.

What power do you have coming into the machine? Into the PS?

[mallardfizz]

hello
if you have an lcd screen then you either have a later motherboard which has the 50 pin scsi screen connection at the front OR most likely you have an earlier motherboard with a 15 pin connection for a crt PLUS a plug in ISA card with the 50 pin scsi connection on it. this board is usually plugged into the second isa slot on the bridge board. it has the silver video cable plugged on the top and a short ribbon cable between this board and the WS board. while this board is plugged in then the WS board will not see a crt plugged into the WS.
Remove the silver connection and the ribbon cable and pull the isa card from the bridge board. plug your crt onto the WS board and start the machine.
regards
mallardfizz

[Temo]

Thanks mallardfizz:

I have an ISA card with the 50 pin scsi connection.

First of all, does a CRT is the same as I call a desktop monitor?

I did what you suggested, we remove the ISA card from the bridge board; we kept the desktop monitor plugged in and we have image now.

I was able to navigate the hard disk with the help of the 101 keyboard; so the hard disk is good, at least I know that.

So, ISA card in, no image at the Flat Panel or the desktop monitor.

No ISA card, I have image to the desktop monitor.

So this leaves me where?

Does this means that the ISA card is dead?

I have the card in my hands and already looking for a way to either test it or a price for it... hope SIEMENS doesnt want like an arm or a leg for it.

I feel that we are going in the right direction.

BTW, I'm in Los Angeles area, so if anybody knows who can test the card for me let me know.

[uli12us]

CRT is Cathode ray tube, thats the same as an "old" PC-Monitor or tv-set.

It seems your Isa Card or your Flatscreen is dead, but have you tested if your Flatscreen get tension. If there are a fuse, it can be dead as well and nothing happens.

If a normal Monitor run, why don't you change the Flatscreen to a standard PC-Part with similiar dimensions. I hope you have neither a touchpanel nor some special keys, connected with the panel.

[neilw20]

Can you post some pictures of the boards and the whole lot all plugged in, then we might have a better understanding.
Just because you can put in a plug from something else, does not mean it will work.
If not designed for the setup, and is custom stuff then even damage might ensue.
First off post some pictures please.

[mallardfizz]

hello again
experience would suggest the flat screen is the problem. i have changed several lcd screens but only one scsi board - and that was because the screen would 'flicker' there was still an image. in most cases the lcd screen lamps fail.
if you buy a vga extension cable you can run using a computer monitor at the front of the machine. you will also need 2 psu extension cables so you can use a mouse and keypad instead of the touchscreen. the mouse and keyboard cables plug into the top of the WS board - the keyboard being the furthest from the front.
regards
mallardfizz

[Temo]

Thanks guys.

Another notes that I found out yesterday: before I started to work on this shop a "technician" from the company that does all the service calls for the manufacturer switch the front panel and still didn't got any image.

This means that the panel might not be at fault, what type of test can I run to check the panel?

I have gone over the fuses and all of them are good.

Another thing that I haven't mentioned before: when I press startup it runs like the normal check up of a PC, WITH the ISA card plugged in you can hear a series of beeps; one long then 3 short ones, a small pause, then another long and 5 short ones.

With out the ISA card I press startup and only one long beep can be heard, and then is when I can get image and I am able to navigate the disk drive trough the external monitor that I plugged in.

This brings me to believe that the ISA card is at fault.

I will post pics of the ISA card in a bit.

Thanks again.

[uli12us]

If the mainboard of the computer is a normal ATX-Board, you can try to search for an manual. There could you find all the beeps, unfortunately, every company makes her own things with those beeps, leds or whatever they have as user information.

[Temo]

Picture of the famous ISA card.

I'm looking for info on those beeps...

[Temo]

Well an update to whoever is keeping score.

The boss end up ssending the video card and after almost $800.00 we got a new one from Siemens.

I installed the card and we have image!!!

So now I can see the first alarm:

Hydraulic Motor Overload.

That will be now the next thread.

Thanks.

[neilw20]

Now you see the problem. Thieve$