[turbostang]

First off, I can't begin to give enough praise to Tormach's customer service. I ordered my machine on Monday and it arrived on Friday! The order was 100% correct with not a single mistake. Packaging was fantastic. No damaged components -but the main machine crate took a hit on the top and something put a ding in the top of the controller box. Nothing bad. (FWIW, I bought a deluxe stand, 4th axis, TTS, ATC, PDB etc.)

The things I didn't like, but don't really affect anything long term - I just thought these things would be checked a bit more thoroughly.

*The column behind access panel, has a LOT of cast iron shavings in it - presumably from the machining of the column. Not only are they present, they are painted over. It's not in a place where you can't see it, they are plainly visible - especially considering the Z axis wiring runs right over them.

*The wiring instructions for the PDB were a bit tough to follow and it appears to be that the fuse layout isn't done by the print. (The fuses are different that what's shown - I pulled and verified a few of them).

*ALL of the tooling appears to be subbed out and not made by anyplace this side of the pond. Some of the tools/tooling/parts are simply rebranded. I don't necessarily mind that, but one could save some money with investigating.

EDIT* - The macine arms are ok, but the tray part is made from particle board. It won't last long in a wet environment. IMHO, not worth the 300$.

All in all I'm in the 99% satisfied range. The machine is great and is super quiet. I would highly recommend it.

[bevinp]

Yes some of the tooling is rebranded, but what I have found is that Tormach seems to have selected quality tools. I too was a little disappointed when I received the obvious rebranded drill chucks but when I tested the runout I was very satisfied. I have forgotten what it was, but I was very happy . The runout was much better than a Chinese chuck I had and for a price not much more.

It seems that every item Tormach sells, they have selected it on quality as well as price, a philosophy that rewards them with much praise on this forum.

In regard to painted over shavings, I guess Tormach QA guys in China can't check every little detail.

Good luck with your projects.
Bevin

[drakke]

Why not point out these to Tormach. Maybe they can fix them for the future.

[nitewatchman]

Interesting obsevation on the chips in the casting.

I converted a 1951 Gray Planer to a CNC Planer Mill in 1994. The machine has an 8' by 52' table and the bed is 110 feet long. In cleaning the machine up and reconditioning the casting we likely "recovered" 1/4 ton of cast iron chips from inside the casting that had apparently been sealup inside covers and in the casting recesses since the machine was built. To our knowledge the machine had always cut rail and no cast iron up until that point (there were also LOTS of rail chips inside).

I would say that a few chips inside the castings are not unusual.

The planer mill is still running 24/7 BTW.

nitewatchman

[drakke]

I would say that a few chips inside the castings are not unusual.

If you spend $10k to $18k on a machine is it too much to ask that it be properly cleaned before painting? Especially if it is made in China where labor costs are lower.

Car companies are padding the underside of trunk lids now (for reasons that escapes me). So why can't Tormach put some QA in their painting process. Appearance matters.

[cheetahcnc]

...I too was a little disappointed when I received the obvious rebranded drill chucks but when I tested the runout I was very satisfied. I have forgotten what it was, but I was very happy . The runout was much better than a Chinese chuck I had and for a price not much more...
Bevin

I have found the run out on the few TTS drill chucks I tested between 0.001 and 0.0005, depending on which key location used first when tightening. I had one of the 1/4" chucks look a little rough on the inside taper, so I set it up with a drill bit and loaded it in the spindle. Checked it at the unfluted shank running, about 1/8" from the chuck jaws, within 0.001". Then I checked a few others. When I found one less acceptable, I tightened it from a different location. Though this extra step adds accuracy, I don't use it every time I chuck a bit. The TTS chucks are a great value for the price, especially when you have a set up that requires several.

Jim

[AiR_GuNNeR]

Interesting obsevation on the chips in the casting.
I converted a 1951 Gray Planer to a CNC Planer Mill in 1994. The machine has an 8' by 52' table and the bed is 110 feet long.
nitewatchman

Dang...how would you like to scrape that sucker in!

[nitewatchman]

It took about 4 weeks with two guys and Biax Power Scrappers.

[Steve Seebold]

Car companies are padding the underside of trunk lids now (for reasons that escapes me). So why can't Tormach put some QA in their painting process. Appearance matters.

In case you haven't noticed, you don't get much of a car for less that 30K any more.

If you're really worried about how the paint job looks or lasts, perhaps you should be looking at a Kitimura or a Mori Seiki, or even a Mazak instead of a Tormach.

My main concern for a machine is its accuracy and performance. Paint is nice, but not a requierment.

[drakke]

In case you haven't noticed, you don't get much of a car for less that 30K any more.

Here are seven for less than $15k:

2012 Nissan Versa MSRP: $10,990
2012 Hyundai Accent MSRP: $12,545
2012 Ford Fiesta MSRP: $13,200
2012 Chevrolet Sonic MSRP: $13,865
2012 Kia Soul MSRP: $13,900
2012 Toyota Yaris MSRP: $14,115
2012 Mazda Mazda2 MSRP: $14,530

Source: 30+ MPG Cars under $15,000

[David Bord]

Let us know which one of those cars you end up with...

[drakke]

Let us know which one of those cars you end up with...

Are you trying to say these are not good cars? I would be happy with ANY of these cars.

My point is that if you are going to have someone in China overseeing quality control then make sure any problems are corrected rather than discounting it as the price of cheap machinery.

How long do you think it would have taken to remove those chips and clean the machine with acetone prior to painting? I think maybe 2 hours or $20. Pretty small compared to the price of the machine.

And it's not that it affects performance. It affects the perception of quality for the customer. Your customers keep you in business. If you are going to cut costs do at least it in a place that they cannot see.

***I am not bashing Tormach***. I just think they should address this problem (if it is a problem rather than an isolated case).

[philbur]

This problem came up during the early years, Tormach chased the manufacturer and improved the QC and then everything seemed fine.

You should take photos and email them to Tormach. There's no better ammunition than to confront the manufacturer with photographs of his failure to meet the requirements. Tormach have a reputation of following up on issues, all they need is the evidence.

Phil

Are you trying to say these are not good cars? I would be happy with ANY of these cars.

My point is that if you are going to have someone in China overseeing quality control then make sure any problems are corrected rather than discounting it as the price of cheap machinery.

How long do you think it would have taken to remove those chips and clean the machine with acetone prior to painting? I think maybe 2 hours or $20. Pretty small compared to the price of the machine.

And it's not that it affects performance. It affects the perception of quality for the customer. Your customers keep you in business. If you are going to cut costs do at least it in a place that they cannot see.

***I am not bashing Tormach***. I just think they should address this problem (if it is a problem rather than an isolated case).

[Steve Seebold]

Here are seven for less than $15k:

2012 Nissan Versa MSRP: $10,990
2012 Hyundai Accent MSRP: $12,545
2012 Ford Fiesta MSRP: $13,200
2012 Chevrolet Sonic MSRP: $13,865
2012 Kia Soul MSRP: $13,900
2012 Toyota Yaris MSRP: $14,115
2012 Mazda Mazda2 MSRP: $14,530

Source: 30+ MPG Cars under $15,000

Like I said, "NOT MUCH OF A CAR".

[fixtureman1]

Like I said, "NOT MUCH OF A CAR".

And just what car do you drive.

[drakke]

And just what car do you drive.

Let's not get into a pissing match over people cars (I don't have one )

[Steve Seebold]

And just what car do you drive.

Am I missing something here? I thought this topic was about the paint job on your Tormach, NOT the vehicle I choose to drive.

[fixtureman1]

I guess what I am saying is these cars have good finish and don't need work to get them to the point that you need to finish cleaning and fixing stuff that should be addressed at the factory.

[Steve Seebold]

I guess what I am saying is these cars have good finish and don't need work to get them to the point that you need to finish cleaning and fixing stuff that should be addressed at the factory.

That is why, like your Tormach, they come with a WARRANTEE on them.

[philbur]

The difference is one of degree. A spiffy paint job on a car is a much more important criteria than it is on an industrial machine tool. That's not to say a spiffy paint job wouldn't be nice on the mill, just not a primary requirement.

Phil

I guess what I am saying is these cars have good finish and don't need work to get them to the point that you need to finish cleaning and fixing stuff that should be addressed at the factory.