[Terry G]

Hi,

I'm looking at purchasing a horizontal band saw to cut 6061 Aluminum round bar from 1" up to 3" (and possibly 4") diameters. Currently I am using a lot of 1.75" for some parts I make, and I spend $25 / 12ft bar to have it cut for me to 1.6" lengths.

I have a vertical band saw that I cut all my flat bar without any issues, but the round bar I need cut very straight to sit in the jaws properly. So I can't afford much blade drift. The place I have it cut at now specs +/- .032" which works fine for me.

I am just not sure what will work well. I have looked at the cheap harbor freight ones for around $250, and some at around $500.00.

I guess my biggest question is will one of these cut nice and straight, and about how long would it take to cut through a piece of 2" aluminum round bar without coolant. And am I just setting myself up for a lot of headaches if I go this route with a cheap bandsaw?

With my vertical band saw, I cut thousands of pieces of flat bar from 1/4 to 1/2" thick and 2" to 3" wide. Been using the same blade for a long time and it cuts each piece within a few seconds. The cuts are not very straight, the blade drifts a lot, but for this stock, it makes no difference at all since I have about .1" tolerance I leave on the stock.

Thanks for any info.

Terry

[keebler303]

Terry

Have you thought about a chop saw for this?

A cheapo one would do alright, a nice cold saw would just be bada$$.

They will give you an excellent end finish and very accurate length when you have stop set up.

Evolution Metal Cutting Chop Saw at Van Sant Enterprises, Inc.
DeWALT Heavy Duty 14'' Metal (Multi-Cutter) Dry-Cut Saw - DW872

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQz9xV4sr8o]Evolution 380 Metal Cutting Chopsaw - YouTube[/ame]

Matt

[Med-Pac]

I'd agree with Matt,

However.....that many cuts, with no coolant is going to raise some issues.

Mike

[Terry G]

I didn't think about that.

I have a decent 14" abrasive blade chop saw I have used for years to cut all my steel.

Is this something I can put a toothed blade on and use it the same way as the saws you linked too? Or are the abrasive and non-abrasive saws completely different (RPM / Torque, etc..)

I haven't done any research in this area yet. So this may not even be an option. But one of these non-abrasive chop saws seems like it would also cut quicker than the band saw.

Med-Pac, could you explain some of the issues I may encounter without coolant? And would this be with the bandsaw, or the chop saw, or both.

I did use a chop saw once about a year ago at a friends shop to try and cut the same stuff, but the blade would immediately clog up with aluminum before even one cut. Took a really long time to cut, material got very hot on each cut, and it was simply a pain. I am sure the blade was wrong for the job as well.

Thanks for the info. I'll take a closer look at some of these chop saws.

Terry

[wildwestpat]

Hi Terry

All depends on what rate you can get for your time when not cutting stock. Your supplier is effectively charging you just over 28 cents per cut which includes their labour and machine overhead rates (there will be less than 90 pieces out of that 12 foot bar due to the kerf of the blade hence the price per cut is a bit higher than 28 cents). So you get the drift. Price of machine plus spares plus manpower plus handling and storage of those 12 foot bars. None of this is cheap unless you have free labour. We call this bean counting a phrase that I think originates in your part of the world but it does impact any profit making capability.

Nice to have on site machine capability - those chop saws work well on aluminium bar - just make sure you check out the vice and necessary 'Vee' roller supports for the stock feed to the saw.

Good luck counting the beans - regards Pat

[Med-Pac]

We use chop saw, miter saw, and horizontal bandsaw. The chop saw is for rough cutting on steel, stainless. Give or take .1 on the tolerance, depends alot on the operator.

The miter saw works for pretty much any alum. we can fit in it (12" makita-100 tooth blade carbide tipped) It does not require much coolant, so we just give the blade a shot of WD-40 every 10-20 parts.

The bandsaw is used for bulk cutting, we weld together a brick of whatever and use constant coolant. The biggest draw back to the coolant is the contamination it causes.......big issues with TIG welding. If you're not welding these pcs, might be a quicker way to go. Plus you can cut alum., steel, stainless, etc with a bandsaw. With the miter saw it's just alum.

90% of our alum. cutting is on the miter saw.

Hope that helps ya,
Mike

[Med-Pac]

Another thought for you would be a blanking shear. Much more expensive though.

Mike

[keebler303]

Those chop saws are low RPM models with a special blade meant for the chore.

As you probably are well aware, aluminum has a tendency to gum up sometimes. When I cut 8020 extrusion, I use a normal mitre saw and carbide tipped wood blade. I wouldn't want to try to cut 3" bar with it though. Anyway, when I do that, I shoot a little WD-40 or odorless mineral spirits on the blade every cut to keep it cool(er) and not stick to the blade. The material should not get hot and it is quite quick.

Matt

[Terry G]

Hi Pat,

Couldn't agree with you more. I run a small CNC shop, and the parts I design and sell are typically under $25.00 each. So I am definitely counting all my pennies.

What has been working efficiently for me is after I setup a job, I cut a few pieces of stock and start running parts. While parts are running I get all my material cut. For a 200 to 300 pcs run, I can get most of my material cut and prepped within 1/2 to 1 hour or so on the vertical band saw.

As it is now with the round bar, I still have to drop the material off at the other shop, wait a day or two, then drive back and pick it up. Doing it myself is a bit more labor on me, but not any extra time involved while sitting in the shop. Plus not having to rely on someone for a quick turn around is always nice.

Terry

[Terry G]

Those chop saws are low RPM models with a special blade meant for the chore.

As you probably are well aware, aluminum has a tendency to gum up sometimes. When I cut 8020 extrusion, I use a normal mitre saw and carbide tipped wood blade. I wouldn't want to try to cut 3" bar with it though. Anyway, when I do that, I shoot a little WD-40 or odorless mineral spirits on the blade every cut to keep it cool(er) and not stick to the blade. The material should not get hot and it is quite quick.

Matt

Yes, I just looked up the specs and saw that the RPM was really the major difference between the abrasive and non-abrasive saws. My 14" abrasive runs at 3900rpm where as the others run around 1400rpm.

A shot of WD is simple enough. Right now I mostly do 1.75" 6061 bar stock, so hopefully that would be a quick cut and the blade will stay clean.

This may be the best solution for me at the price. Plus it is small and can be put away when not in use. A big plus for my small shop.

Thanks everyone for all the info.

Terry

[Terry G]

I looked into the Evolution Metal Cutting Chop saws and spoke with a representative. For the 200 to 300 pcs cuts I would need per sitting, they said this type of saw would most likely not do the job.

They stated these would cut the material very nicely and quickly, but I guess the saw or blade wouldn't hold up to that many cuts one after the other.

Since I don't have any experience with this, can't really comment on it.

He did recommend a cold saw for this type of application. I do want to get the right tool if it makes sense cost wise. Otherwise, I'll just continue outsourcing the cuts for now.

Thanks again,

Terry

[fatal-exception]

25 bucks for ~90 cuts! You would be crazy to try and do that yourself, unless you spend big money on a good saw like a Hydmech with automatic control.

I saw farm it out and do what you do best.

Paul

[Terry G]

I guess I was comparing it to all the stock I currently cut myself. I use mostly 1/4" to 1/2" thick by 2" to 3" wide bar stock for my parts. It takes about 3 to 5 seconds per cut on my vertical band saw and I can get 250 cuts done (typically enough for a run) in about 30 to 40 minutes.

All this is being done while the machine is running 5 to 8 min cycle times.

My bandsaw just doesn't handle this thicker material that well. That's why I need to outsource the 1.75" round bar to have cut.

If I had a reliable saw that could cut the material in 10 to 15 seconds per cut, I can get a bar cut in about 20 minutes. Spending $5K on a saw wouldn't be worth it for me right now, but $500 to $1K would be something I would consider. Would take about a year to make up the cost, but I would probably use it for a lot of other things, and not have to rely on another shop.

Anyway, this is all good info since I don't have much experience with these saws. Just weighing all the options and taking in all the great advice.

Thanks.

[wizard]

My first thought is to buy a lathe big enough to handle the bar and flexible enough to machine the part. Let the lathe cut the part to length.

On the other hand you are getting a good deal on those cut as it is.

Many have already mentioned cold saws which do work well. The problem I see here is that you would need a fairly automated one to really benefit over the service you are getting from your metal supplier.

[Terry G]

My first thought is to buy a lathe big enough to handle the bar and flexible enough to machine the part. Let the lathe cut the part to length.

On the other hand you are getting a good deal on those cut as it is.

Many have already mentioned cold saws which do work well. The problem I see here is that you would need a fairly automated one to really benefit over the service you are getting from your metal supplier.

This is 100% mill work. On a double vise I run 2 parts both 1st and 2nd op in a single cycle of about 5 min.

I understand that the $25.00 per bar is a pretty good deal. But being a small shop, while the mill is running I don't really have anything else to do. Can only clean an organize for so long! So I typically cut all my stock in the first hour of so of a job which can typically take a few days depending on the parts and quantity.

I'm spending about $90 per 12 ft length, then the extra $25.00 to have it cut. I may go through 3 to 4 bars a month so that's $100.00 extra a month I'm spending. After watching some videos, these cold saws cut aluminum pretty quick. Saw one cutting 1.5" round bar in just a few seconds.

In other words, I could probably cut a full bar in 10 or 15min. I think it makes sense to spend 10 to 15 min. doing a job to save $25.00. Especially since it is dead time waiting to change parts.

Not sure if I am missing something, but spending $1K on an entry level cold saw seems like a good investment. If I were to only use it for this one part, it would pay for itself in a year, then I would be saving $1K per year after that. Plus I am sure I would find other uses for it.

Don't know what type of maintenance these cold saws need, but I imagine if not abused the blades should last a long time. Though something I would need to research. Plus electricity, etc. If I consider the time and gas used back and forth to the other shop, at $0.60 per mile my Ford 460 uses, the electricity used for one job would be much less!

As Pat mentioned earlier, I need to consider all the costs and time involved. Definitely not trying to convince myself of anything, just throwing all the facts on the table. Always trying to see if I can save a buck and gain something at the same time!

Terry

[Fabitfast]

You will never experience greater cuts when you stick on cheap band saws. That’s why I never buy cheap machines unless equipped with quality. Try this Trajan saw: Utility Bandsaws for less . I think you can get it for only $1,350, shipping included. It cuts round bars up to a maximum stock of 7”.

[Terry G]

Thanks for the link. I agree with your thoughts on using quality machines.

Though I have to say, I have one of these cheap 14" harbor freight band saws I bought about 10 years ago for $169.00. I put a high quality Bi-Metal blade on it and made a nice fence system for it. It is used primarily to cut all my aluminum stock mostly consisting of 1/4 x 1 1/2" up to 1/2 x 3" flat bar. It does thousands and thousands of cuts. Not perfectly straight, but plenty good enough for a piece of stock.

I set the fence, and can cut through a 12 foot piece of stock with about 20 to 30 cuts in just a minute or two. A touch of tube wax on the blade every 4 to 5 cuts does the job.

Doesn't do the round stuff very well, I don't bother trying it anymore. That is one of those tools that you want to replace with a nicer quality one when it dies, but it just won't die!!

[Fabitfast]

I thought you were needing a band saw machine that can cut aluminum round bars? Have you changed your mind? Well, if your old machine works enough for you, then there is no need to look for a new one. Try changing your blade for straighter cuts. I got my blades from sawblade.com.

[Terry G]

Yes, that is definitely what I was looking for.

With a new blade, it could probably cut straight enough. But it is more the manually pushing the stock through the blade. Even with the fence system, a 12 foot piece of 2" round is hard to keep straight and I end up with a slight taper on the cut. Plus once the blade wears a bit (only using wax stick to lube), it wands to wander more.

This happens with all my flat stock as well, but the angles cut doesn't matter on how the parts are being machined.

This is why a cold saw sounded interesting. Cuts very fast and straight. I'm still trying to decide on the cost of a decent saw, and outsourcing like I have been.

Terry

[Fabitfast]

You can try using a clamp for a firmer hold of the stock. This would help you straighten the cut even with manually feeding the material to the blade. Regarding the blade wandering problem, try to check on the blade guides and the tension. You might be missing something there. Or try using other lubes. There are lubes specifically designed for metal cutting or sawing processes.