[cdi3d]

I recently designed and added an air diverter to my Porter Cable 892 router and can not believe how much of a difference it has made in my shop - I cut mostly g10 fiberglass and that stuff is messy - The router used to blow it all over my shop and out the dust shoe before the dc could collect it all - Now I have no problems at all - Also raising my dust shoe as high as possible has helped as well. Anyone else done something similar?

[ger21]

Several have made diverters.
However, my preference is better dust collection. With good dust collection, you shouldn't need to divert the air.

[msimpson99]

There are two schools of thought.
1. Brute force
Use a large hose with a monseter dust collection system to pull the dust away from the stock.

2. Clean and mean
Clean up the air so the dust collection system does not have to fight the router ventilation air.

I have tried both and in all honastly both work. Brute force works best with large machines doing large flat cuts.

I prefer cleaning the air with some sort of diverter or air exchanges system. This normaly means that I can use a smaller hose still catch 99% of the dust. It also means that I can turn off my dust collection system and vacume it up later as I dont have to worry about the router blowing the dust all over my shop.

There are also times when no dust collection system will work. In those cases you want a good diverter or air exchanger.

Here is a case where I just wanted to cut the part but did not want to blow the dust all over the shop. The debris stayed pretty much on the table top.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrBvovPiyo8]KRMx02 Cutting Tenon - YouTube[/ame]

Here I am cutting MDF and we all know how nasty that stuff can be.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cVKOQJgiuk]Large Clock Project Clock Plates - YouTube[/ame]

A large monster 4" or 6" hose connected to my CNC would only get in the way.


Good work.

[cdi3d]

Thanks guys - In my small shop I only have room for a 1hp DC and 99% of the time I am cutting G10 sheets - The diverter I designed helps me keep the dust down to a manageable level - Thanks for the comments -

Mike

[adprinter]

I will try and post photos later, but I just completed (after many iterations of attempts) a successful Dust Shoe design. It sort of utilizes both router air flow divertor, and vacuum (2 HP Dust Collector- 4" hose). The many attempts took me awhile to get everything just right. I wanted a Dust Shoe which would "float" along the surface (without mounting it on the Z axis to increase the weight the Z axis is already having to lift). The only drawback, is tool length. This design would work best with one of those collet chuck sets (which would effectively extend the collet length). Or either stick to minimum 2" tool lengths. The separate air flow from the router, and the vacuum air flow for the Dust Shoe is the trade-off with my design. The photos (once I get them posted) will explain. Basically, the Dust Shoe rides along the surface of the stock which has been clamped down onto the table surface, and all Z action of the router happens outside of the Dust Shoe. There is a 2" diameter opening in the top of the Dust Shoe to allow the router to plunge into the stock thru this opening. The system does work, and collects 100% of the dust produced.

[bebob1]

why not flood it with detergent water mixture. this way the dust are comparably more clumped than smaller particulates. easier to handle. might have to continuously reapply more liquid.

[Lee DeRaud]

why not flood it with detergent water mixture. this way the dust are comparably more clumped than smaller particulates. easier to handle. might have to continuously reapply more liquid.

Flood no, mist maybe...might work for fiberglass/composites, but I don't see any way to get the dust wet without getting the workpiece wet: bad idea for wood.

(I'm also getting a mental image of cleaning wet sawdust off a router...not pretty.)

[bebob1]

Certainly he may want to change the base material for his stage or at least coated.

He can make some kind of shallow pan on which his workpiece sits and is secured on, which can allow for flood or mist cooling.

wet sawdust tend to clump together. might be easier to clean than fine particulates that also travel a longer distance

[aarggh]

Certainly he may want to change the base material for his stage or at least coated.

He can make some kind of shallow pan on which his workpiece sits and is secured on, which can allow for flood or mist cooling.

wet sawdust tend to clump together. might be easier to clean than fine particulates that also travel a longer distance

Even with a wet/dry vacuum, how would you suck the wet dust clumps up without it caking the inside of everything it passes, drying up as it goes, or clogging up very, very quickly as you would expect?

Couldn't see that being at all practical with most systems, not to mention the vastly reduced work area by sitting it inside a pan, clamping would also be a problem then?

cheers,
Ian

[Lee DeRaud]

Certainly he may want to change the base material for his stage or at least coated.

He can make some kind of shallow pan on which his workpiece sits and is secured on, which can allow for flood or mist cooling.

wet sawdust tend to clump together. might be easier to clean than fine particulates that also travel a longer distance

Let me try this one more time...
There are all sorts of ways to handle the potential problem of getting the machine wet, but that's not what concerns me. It's that he's going to get his workpiece wet. That may or may not be a problem for G10 fiberglass; on the other hand, I have no idea whether the dust from fiberglass clumps when wet.

But machining wet wood isn't that great an idea. Swelling and raising grain are not really condusive to precision. If nothing else, the first place the wet sawdust is going to clump is in the flutes of the bit.

[bebob1]

of course you shouldnt cut wood wet. it doesnt cut properly and jams the wood router bits. obviously i wasnt saying he should cut wood wet.

in his picture and description he was cutting fiber glass which is ok wet. in this case the only material that is wood is his stage.

wetting the workpiece is one way of reducing dust. obviously nothing beats a proper vacuuming solution. just like nothing beats having a better mill or even suggesting him cut it with other methods like a laser cutter

[bebob1]

Even with a wet/dry vacuum, how would you suck the wet dust clumps up without it caking the inside of everything it passes, drying up as it goes, or clogging up very, very quickly as you would expect?

Couldn't see that being at all practical with most systems, not to mention the vastly reduced work area by sitting it inside a pan, clamping would also be a problem then?

cheers,
Ian

wet dry vacs can handle wet dust without a problem. Even for routered applications where users have large diameter hose and long hose lengths where flow velocities are expected to be lower. its pretty normal for shop vacs hoses to be caked with a layer on the inside when you use the vac for a variety of applications. you might just be used to single use applications. you can dedicate a hose for an application if you wish.

you are taking the 'pan' concept too literally. it can simply be four wall protrusions on the ends of the stage. it doesnt even have to take that much real estate. as long as its enough to keep a film of liquid on. This doesnt prevent you from mounting if your system relies on threaded holes instead of T channels. Plus, most epoxy fiberboards are pretty hydrophobic so you can probably keep a puddle in there without needing to flood the entire thing.

[Lee DeRaud]

of course you shouldnt cut wood wet. it doesnt cut properly and jams the wood router bits. obviously i wasnt saying he should cut wood wet.

in his picture and description he was cutting fiber glass which is ok wet. in this case the only material that is wood is his stage.

Sorry. When someone says "sawdust", I think "wood", not "fiberglass".

[aarggh]

wet dry vacs can handle wet dust without a problem. Even for routered applications where users have large diameter hose and long hose lengths where flow velocities are expected to be lower. its pretty normal for shop vacs hoses to be caked with a layer on the inside when you use the vac for a variety of applications. you might just be used to single use applications. you can dedicate a hose for an application if you wish.

you are taking the 'pan' concept too literally. it can simply be four wall protrusions on the ends of the stage. it doesnt even have to take that much real estate. as long as its enough to keep a film of liquid on. This doesnt prevent you from mounting if your system relies on threaded holes instead of T channels. Plus, most epoxy fiberboards are pretty hydrophobic so you can probably keep a puddle in there without needing to flood the entire thing.

All the hobby level (which is what we are talking about here) wet/dry vacs I've seen have a float for sucking up liquids, or dust, wet dust is going to seriously render any standard vac hose useless with caked up crap pretty quick.

I still don't see this being at all practical without the proper equipment, and how many times do you see serious hobbiests with all the proper equipment, especially when the only usual criteria for extraction is noise and volume/capacity, not how well it will cope with constantly sucking up wet dust in clumps?

So far as a pan goes, no matter how you do it, for it to efficiently collect all the dust/liquid, you WILL be reducing your possible work area, and affecting clamping, unless as you indicated you specifically rework the table/pan to suit those conditions better.

cheers,
Ian

[Dylwad]

I machine carbon sheet under water daily, its a pain, wouldnt dream of doing it for G10. Dust collector and a shop vac works fine there.

I suck the nasty, Nasty water out with a vacuum pump and resevior. Wouldnt think of using a wet/dry vac unless it gets cleaned daily.

I use a harbor freight 2hp DC with a rockler 5 micron bag and 4" hose, works great.

[bebob1]

i use it when machining acrylic boards. works like a charm and reduces heat buildup too.

honestly the proposed problem of clogging the shop vac hose is extremely overexagerated. I have one main shop vac hose that I use for sucking up chips from milling any and all sorts of materials. This includes cutting metal with cutting oils and plastics with water-detergent etc. Yeah it does cake the center of the hose a bit and lines it with some residual chips. However its never really been a problem though. It never fully 'clogged' the pipe to the point there is zero suction.

Its also easy enough to clean too with a variety of techniques if you are so inclined.

the biggest worry with the water-detergent mixture for me is rusting of steel components. gotta make sure those rustable components are coated in a layer of oil first and that no water can splash onto them (e.g. collets). and maybe cover your linear motion components as well. other than that I'd say the hose clogging is not the main worry.