[Grunblau]

I wanted to finally make a post to describe the status of offering kits for the Platform CNC. I decided to post this separate from the build thread as I am hoping for a conversation and to gauge interest based on these numbers.

I went back through everything to see what I ended up spending for the prototype. You remember that when I started out, I wanted to build the machine close to the specs of the Rockler Shark Pro. Since I started this build, the HD version has also come out.


The basic specs of these machines from Rockler's site are:


Rockler Shark Pro Plus

$3,799.99 (current price plus shipping)

High-density Poly-ethylene and Aluminum Construction
25” X 25” X 5” (Routing Area)
120 IPM (Maximum Travel Speed)
Bosch Colt 1 HP (Suggested Spindle)
Precision lead screws on all axes
Single drive gantry with 269 oz/in steppers
24V Power supply
USB interface with on controller memory storage.
CNC Shark Control Interface (common upgrade is to dump this for Mach3)


Rockler Shark Pro Plus HD

$3,999.99 (current price plus shipping)

High-density Poly-ethylene and Aluminum Construction
25” X 25” X 7” (Routing Area)
200 IPM (Maximum Travel Speed)
Reinforced for 2.25 HP Router
Precision modified stainless lead screws with backlash reducing nuts on all axes
Single drive gantry with 269 oz/in steppers
24V power supply
USB interface with on controller memory storage
CNC Shark Control Interface


Current specs for the Platform CNC

Laser cut and CNC bent steel and Aluminum Construction
30” X 48” X 6” (Routing Area) + adjustable spindle clamp location
300 IPM Travel Speed (Combined axes speed is around 450 IPM @ 25kHz kernel speed)
Currently using my Bosch 1617 (planning for a spindle)
1/2”-10 5 start precision Acme lead screws with CNCRP Dumpster CNC anti-backlash nuts
Dual Drive gantry with 380 oz/in stepper motors on all axes
48V 12.5A power supply
Gecko G540 4-Axis stepper controller
Mach 3 Control Interface


As you can see, I abandoned the Rockler specs for a more useful footprint, more powerful drive system, faster rapids, all metal construction and to use the venerable Gecko G540 and Mach3 for the driver and interface.

Bigger, Better, Faster


What did this machine cost me to put together?

Without considering the parts that I remade in the process (ouch), my cost was approximately $4800. Keep in mind that this was for a one-off machine. Fabrication companies really like to charge for one-off parts. My hopes for this kit would to be for people to be able to put this machine together for right around $4k. Amazingly, this can be accomplished by doing multiples, so if there is interest, I would need to do a run of 5+ machines.

I already have 2 people interested locally and I wanted to put this feeler out into the online community.


The costs per machine breaks down like this based on the quotes I have received...

$1200 for the laser cut and bent steel fabrication
$ 300 for the powder coating, painting, finishing, etc...
$ 300 for the waterjet cut aluminum (still waiting for quotes from new company)

This is $1800 for the parts that I would have fabricated and represents all of the 'smart' components. This includes the integral 45 degree linear rails, structural legs, uprights and bolt together steel structure. I have decided to try to do this initial run as close to my costs as possible. Future runs (if any) might cost a little more.


The costs per machine breaks down like this for the other parts I sourced...

~$1000 for parts at CNCRouterparts.com
~$ 550 for fasteners, leadscrews etc from McMaster
~$ 390 for the T-slot extrusions and nuts
~$ 210 for 16 V-Groove bearings and bushings
~$ 50 for misc electronics (E-stop, fans, power switch, etc...)

This is $2200 worth of parts to be sourced from other suppliers. You could do what ever you wanted to for leadscrews/ballscrews, electronics etc. These are my as built specs and suppliers.

This would be a total of $4000 to have a complete dual drive machine based on these numbers.


How could this get even less expensive?

It makes very little sense for me to pay to have 100's of pounds of stuff shipped to me only to pay to have it shipped elsewhere. I will look into the options for the V-groove wheels and the McMaster stuff as the companies that make them are about an hour drive from me.

Ahren @ CNCRouterparts has been incredibly helpful and depending on some new stuff he has on the horizon, there might be some more savings from what I paid based on packaging and/or quantity.

The total from McMaster is what is required based on their per box quantities. One solution could be to buy these in bulk and split up the boxes as this could save a few nickels. Not buying these from McMaster might also save some cash.

The t-slot extrusions seem to be pretty much a locked-in price. Short of setting up shop and cutting and tapping these myself, this is what 80/20 charges for 5 sets of cut-to-length parts with tapped holes. There are a couple other suppliers for extrusions but none as well known to the DIY community. Parco, for example, was $50 cheaper for 5 sets, but with a bigger volume, 80/20 has been known to cut a deal on pricing.

The V-groove wheels and bushings work out to about $13/set and seem to be pretty inexpensive to me. These include eccentric and concentric bushings allowing for fine adjustment of the axes.

The misc electronics are sourced mainly from Digikey.

All of these prices do not include shipping.


In summary, for about $4K I believe anyone could build this incredibly rigid, dual drive, bench top machine.

The features that are most useful to me is the ability to R&D additional functions based on the flexible structure and drive system (unless someone else beats me to it). The most exciting modes for me to explore currently are Plasma and Tangential knife with the plan of adding a rotary axis in the future. Of course, If a laser fell into my lap, I would be ordering some aluminum honey comb and designing a downdraft table. I really see this as a Platform for making, prototyping and the development of ideas for personal manufacturing.

It has taken me 2+ years to get to this point and I have had a lot of fun along the way and I expect to enjoy my machine for a very long time. I am finally getting back to designing projects instead of a machine capable of producing them.


How I am currently planning to structure an initial run of 5 machines.

Step 1
I am currently gauging interest. Please email me or post here if you are interested. There is no obligation, I will not spam you etc... I just want to see if this is feasible now that the numbers are getting solidified. This would only be for the 'smart' steel and aluminum parts.

Step 2
If there is interest enough to do a run, I would require a non-refundable deposit before we got the party started. This is just locking in those people that are signing up for the groupbuy. If there ended up not being 5+ people, you would be refunded your deposit.

Step 3
Once the fabrication and powder coating had begun, I would require that the remaining be paid before shipping.

Expected delivery time would be conservatively 4-6 weeks from placing the order (likely less).




If you are at all interested, please email me or post in this thread!!!

[email protected]



That's it for now!

Brian Oltrogge
Grünblau Design Studio

[vtx1029]

Can you post pictures of just the fabricated parts? $300 seems like a huge ripoff for powder coating the pieces I'm seeing. Are you having any area's taped off?

[groswald]

How about a short kit of just the steel and shaped aluminum parts? I'd love to have a copy of your machine (although probably not right away), but I have many of the other bits. Those I do not have I can probably source as cheaply as you can.

Just a thought.

Regards,

Randy

[Grunblau]

How about a short kit of just the steel and shaped aluminum parts? I'd love to have a copy of your machine (although probably not right away), but I have many of the other bits. Those I do not have I can probably source as cheaply as you can.

Absolutely, this is my intention. I found that there is no benefit to me sourcing the parts other than what I have cut and shaped according to my CAD work.

The other parts, steppers, leadcrews, etc.. would be sourced elsewhere. Personally, I need to spread these kinds of costs out a bit. I bought parts here and there for over a year for my machine... Once you have all of the parts, the thing goes together in a weekend.

To be clear, the 'short kit' would include all of the steel and shaped aluminum for ~$1800.

A quick look around finds MDO and MDF kits for more than that!

I just estimate the cost of the finished machine to be right around $4k.

[Grunblau]

Can you post pictures of just the fabricated parts? $300 seems like a huge ripoff for powder coating the pieces I'm seeing. Are you having any area's taped off?

Here is a terrible picture of all of the steel. Tapped holes and all of the linear rail surfaces are masked off. The black pieces are painted as they do not really need to be as durable as the powder coated pieces. Many of the pieces are stacked up in this picture so the square footage looks a lot less than it is. It would likely cost over $100 to just rattle can the whole thing.

[vtx1029]

Yea still seems steep I'll fire up my oven for you for less then that. Shoot me a PM if your interested and we can talk more offline (FYI my neighbor also works for a metalfab shop as well...) One suggestion to get your price down is don't have them mask the tapped holes my experience is the finish turns out better by either removing the plug after its coated but before its baked or just tap it after its been coated.

[Grunblau]

Thank you for the tip on the tapped holes. I plan to do a lot of the prep myself if/when a group buy goes through.

Really the $300 includes all of the costs associated with the prep work, painting, tool blacking edges, masking, etc that I would do (not just what shows up on the bill from the powder coater). I included these numbers just to give an idea of the costs involved in putting together a kit. Laser cut parts, for example, require you to remove the carbon from all of the cut edges. PC is only as good as what it attaches to, this carbon tends to flake off over time. The guy that did the powder coating also bead blasted all of the surfaces as well. There are about 40 separate pieces (not including the black ones). If you were local, I might take you up on your offer but the additional round trip shipping costs for a 100lb box of steel would make that cost prohibitive.

As it is, I am very confident that this guy's numbers are good and I value his attention to detail.

[Drools]

I know the powder coating looks fantastic but do these parts really need powder coating? Maybe offer these parts unfinished and let the end user decide what finish he/she wants to use.
Just a thought.

[vtx1029]

Thank you for the tip on the tapped holes. I plan to do a lot of the prep myself if/when a group buy goes through.

Really the $300 includes all of the costs associated with the prep work, painting, tool blacking edges, masking, etc that I would do (not just what shows up on the bill from the powder coater). I included these numbers just to give an idea of the costs involved in putting together a kit. Laser cut parts, for example, require you to remove the carbon from all of the cut edges. PC is only as good as what it attaches to, this carbon tends to flake off over time. The guy that did the powder coating also bead blasted all of the surfaces as well. There are about 40 separate pieces (not including the black ones). If you were local, I might take you up on your offer but the additional round trip shipping costs for a 100lb box of steel would make that cost prohibitive.

As it is, I am very confident that this guy's numbers are good and I value his attention to detail.

Didn't realize you were counting that stuff as well in the price. Then Yes I could see it being that then. Good luck with your biz I think you have a great product.

[eigstein]

Love your cnc design and your taste in music . But a word of caution don't quit your day job .

sincerely ,

eigstein

[Grunblau]

Love your cnc design and your taste in music . But a word of caution don't quit your day job.n

Don't worry, boss. I'll be in on Monday

[cdwiggi93]

Brian,

I was wondering how the additions of a rotary axis and 3D printing where coming along?