[BROCD]

Looking for feedback on this software.can't find anything anywhere.

[HomeCNC]

I assume you mean something different than the ProCam we are using at work. http://www.procam-networks.com

[BROCD]

Correct.I'm talking about Procam by Teksoft.The company I work for had purchased this software before I started and no one could get it to work very well.I have gotten it going and now my boss wants to upgrade and I am wondering if we should spend any more money on it.
I have been looking for any feedback on it but can't seem to find any.

[CDignition]

PC is a good program...we used a real old version of it in an old job I had...they have since upgraded, and do alot of 3D solids on it...

I have CamWorks by Teksoft...I love it..it is pretty capable. It uses a DB for machining routines, and you will need to spend time customizing this t oyour liking..onec it is set, it is pretty fast.. It also workis inside Solidworks, so it is faster due to that too..

[BROCD]

Thanks CD, I appreciate your input.

[sirius]

Brocd, please get a demo to see whether its worth it.

I have used Teksoft Procam as a cad and cam package for about five years, and the company I work for have had it about 7 or 8 years.

Personally I loathe it. It really grates on me that we still have to use it. It depends what your aim is, and what your needs are, but if youre after a cad design package with a bit of CAM - FORGET IT! The design capabilities are laughable to todays standard. The design features havent changed since the dos/windows3.1 version they started with at work.

Now, if you want to be designing your full job in another package and just machining the odd 2.5d profile or imported 3d model, yeah, if you have a load of legacy data its worth having a look into ProcamII. But dont part with the money before you realise what it can and (mostly cant) do.

Perhaps things are (if only slightly) a bit different in the newer ProcamII, but we got sent a demo from our new distributor (OUR ORIGINAL SELLER DROPPED IT LIKE THE PLAGUE TWO YEARS AGO) but we didnt really notice any changes on actual construction of geomnetry or 2d/3d drawing.

The machining was revamped a fair bit, with the new feature recognition and solid modelling importation abilties (WHICH WOULD BE AN EXTRA COST at the time we tried it).

We have nothing but hassle importing data into Procam2000, both 2d and 3d, and exporting our designs to customers is a royal pain in the arse, the translators are pityfull.

Currently we want to change to something else, but our 2d lagacy data is virtually useless once translated, and the 'dumb' non advanced 2d design capabilities have made it a real nightmare fot the designers in the office to grasp 'modern' technologies.

The printing is abismal, illegal operations (especially on imported data) right left and center and a general "ARRGGHHGHHGH" factor when you lose a whole job because it crashed on a save or 'illegal operation'ed on a simple trim.


If your after just a simple to use CAM only package thats easy to program and would like to upgrade to the new ProcamII and pay for solid compatibility (IMPORT ONLY - IT WONT DO SOLIDS) and Automatic Feature recognition, then by all means give it a go on a demo version.

I do like the ease of machining anything, but I dont like drawing 2d OR 3d geometry in it for cutter paths- its a nightmare, theres no 3d to 2d drwaing creation or any sort of intelligence in general design features.

We use it as our primary full job design tool, and machine things in 3d as when they come along......and for that purpose I cant recommend it (personally). AutoCad LT is FAR FAR more advanced for that at a vast price difference.

As I say, it depends on what the plan is for it and what scale of outfit you are, whether you rely on import/export to customers or not.

Procam200 as a design tool gets 2 out of 10 in my book and for CAM gets 5 or 6 out of ten (for the parts we do).

Please shop wisely and investigate the alternatives, also realise the pitfalls of its 'dumbness' - for example try asking it to calculate an area, cross hatch a complex set of lines, and moving dimensions once placed!!!!!!!. All data is always seperate - arrow heads included, you can only imagine the wasted time this system causes in general.


Anywayz, hope Im not too late for you. Im a newbie here.


See ya

Sirius.

[sirius]

Please note CAMWORKS for Solidworks is a whole different beast, and my comments are in no way associated to that program, Im talking about Teksoft Procad (Procam) 2000 and ProcamII systems.

Brocd, Id be interested to hear what you have to say about this matter .

I could write a whole book on things I dont like, but if youve any questions reagarding Procam2000 (not ProcamII or Camworks) dont hesitate to ask. Ill try and check back in a few days.

[BROCD]

Fortunatly we don't have to design with Procad and all of our stuff is 2 and 2.5 axis. So we are pretty much just using it for program generation.
I would be interested to know what kind of service you have recieved from this company.
Thanks for the information it's what I was looking for.

[sirius]

Hi.

for what we do (mostly 3d mill), the Procam software does get the job done in the end.

2.5d doesnt get that much attention here, but I sucesfully programmed a combination of hole, pocket and profile operations in 2d&3d packages with no hassle at all, although we had to pay our vendor to custom write a post processor.

I would say its very, very easy to use, and 2d is a doddle, but obviously I am used to using the system now.

We are still on Procam2000 (when our reseller ditched it), for upgrades on the *CAD* side, NOTHING has changed since 1993!!!!. The machining side has had a few updates, but mainly in dribs and drabs, infact we ended up ditching the update subscription plan (rightly or wrongly) as we were being screwed on the design tools - but obviously this doesnt affect you.

We are not on the new "ProcamII", however (suprisingly) there seemed quite a few enhancements in the way you program and a new feature tree (a la camworks looking) to keep track of the programs' machining operations etc.
I cant really advise on whether you should pay a great deal for an upgrade to ProcamII for 2d machining as we dont use that particular version nor do much 2d machining work.

Im sorry if I sound a bit unhelpfull, but the 90% negative feelings I have for this software stems primarily as having to use it for design as well as machining and I wouldnt like this to sway you either way with the sole purpose of 2d machining.
ProcamII could be well enough equiped for your needs, but I know it has severe downfalls as an overall 2d/3d cadcam system.
Btw, ProcamII has its own file extension different to the earlier Procam systems.

The support from our (ex) suppliers was just mediocre, but I dont know if that was something the bosses had caused higher up the chain from myself......or just lazyness on the vendors half.

We never had any reason to contact the Teksoft company direct, so I cant really comment upon their actual support Im afraid, the suppliers tended to our gripes (eventually). So it depends on your reseller outfit I suppose.

Out of interest, would you be using it all day all week or just for the occasional job, also how much are you talking for the upgrade switch?

Let me know if you want me to find the 'whats new' from the Cd's we were sent (regarding the 2d details in your case of course). We got sent a demo cd of procamII and a proper installation disk.....but no updated 'cod' file to update our dongles - hence demo mode, there should be some information on there on what the differences are between Procam you are using and the new(ish) releases.


See ya

Sirius.

[CDignition]

I do hate Dongles...I run Camworks, but the Dongle sucks,lol...

I do agree using it for design would suck, but Acad would suck too,lol...using Solid Modeling spoils you forever..

[dherbman]

Wish I could add something positive, I can't. I'd hoped that things would change when the company was bought by On-Course, it didn't. I am strictly 2D and the app is not enough. As for support, I've posted a 30+ item list of bugs and deficencies on their site in December. Not ONE reply. When they first opened the user forum, I made a rather scathing post which was deleted. The VP of sales and marketing contacted me and inquired as to my problems. He assured me he would look into them, but when I followed up, he was gone gone gone.....

My favorite is when the program crashes on save and corrupts everything you've done. Another prime example is the response to an er I placed because rotating a part would cause bad geometry and the gcode would result in scrap. Instead of making the correct calculation, a message now pops up telling me to check my tool paths. They actually list this as an enhancement.

Hate it, loathe it, use it.....

[John S.]

Originally posted by BROCD
Fortunatly we don't have to design with Procad and all of our stuff is 2 and 2.5 axis. So we are pretty much just using it for program generation.

If you are looking for 2D and 2.5D than have a look at a program called Dolphin.
http://www.dolphin.gb.com

This is a very easy to learn and very good program for 2.5D work.
A lot of the commands are automatic if needed but can be overwritted or edited as nessesary. You decide the amount of input needed.
It can automatically add the tool diameter to the profile to produce an offset path, no need to define one. Change the tool and it changes to offset path.
Lead in's and outs are dialog box definable, again no need to draw them.
It's well worth the download and have a play with the demo.

John S.

[sirius]

Originally posted by dherbman
Wish I could add something positive, I can't. I'd hoped that things would change when the company was bought by On-Course, it didn't. I am strictly 2D and the app is not enough. My favorite is when the program crashes on save and corrupts everything you've done. Hate it, loathe it, use it.....

Dherbman, Im glad Im not alone in this opinion.

We have had MANY a fun hour in vane attempts to recover a file thats crashed on saving......I dont know about you, but as we draw our full designs in Procad, that can mean a general arrangement drawing thats taken two or three weeks design time! Seeing as there is also no 'backup' file generated, its a lost cause. You sometimes can open the file - but its empty!!!!!! and the units have changed from 0.000 to just 0. Filesize is either 0 or full size but there is no entities visable or selectable.

What also stinks (ontop of a whole range of things) is how it handles networks. For example if I had a drawing open at 9 in the morning from the server computer, got busy with another job and left it on in the background, and sombody else had spent all day finishing it off on another computer and saved it......then I come back to it last thing and save it - the whole days work is gone. Theres no 'file is already open' 'cannot save' or 'read only' warning on opening or saving files. Its pathetic.

I dont know if you design in Procad, but if you do you have my sympathies. My colleagues know no other program, certainly not anything worthwhile, and thier argument is that its quicker than other systems - but thats basicly becuse it has no options or intelligence. Sure you can take a bit longer in other systems, messing with dimension styles, blocks, etc however the time that is saved doing a BETTER and more sophistacated/intelligent job and the benifit of editing data later on is immense. Its stupidity drives me round the twist.

In my own time, I am looking into the possibilities of other systems.....theres hundreds to choose from. Also Im looking at learning some other CAM software to see how it can benifit us becuase if the 2d design tools are such a pathetic waste of time it makes you wonder about the rest of it too. I have no experience with other CAM programs at this point, only CAD.

Is ProcamII still as buggy as Procam2000? Trimming crashes, printing going silly, huge spiralling lines that go on for infinity from customer data, sudden dips in the cutter path that werent on simulation? Are they OpenDWG compliant yet? - I doubt it. I bet its still the pretender that its a 'windows' based system and not DOS too!!. Are all entities like arrow heads still all seperarte? do you still have to break the profile and draw lead in/out paths?

I remember one bonus it had listed for ProcamII was that it can now calculate AREA's of a 2d enclosed shape (once its a 'boundary')!!!!!!! Well frig me, that IS impressive! I mean thats what other cad users have enjoyed since at least 1988!!!. What a joke.

Like I say, I cant comment on the CAM because I know no other system for that, but in general and for design it sucks, big time.

I think its (allegedly) £4,500 a seat with extras yet to be baught....to think what the company I work for could have baught for the seven seats we have that makes me wanna weep sometimes. The mind boggles, it really does.

To give the Teksoft company credit, I hear the Camworks addon to Solidworks is pretty good. Its a shame they didnt invest some of that money into thier existing products.......which reminds me, ProCam is now being touted as the 'standalone' version of CAMworks in some articles - IT IS DEFFO NOT THE CASE!!

See ya laterz

Sirius.

[dherbman]

Sirius,

It is what it was, for the most part. It is by far the worst design environment I have ever encountered. I use SolidWorks exclusively for design and then DXF into ProCAM. Even chopping that much out of the process, the program is still deficient.
I'm in touch with their sr. applications engineer right now. Don't know that will resolve anything, I've been here before.

Some of your comments about your co-workers would lend credibility to a theory I've had. Most of the user base doesn't know any better. Give me one hour with any proponent of this software and I will turn them forever. At one time, it was the beest thing going(So I am told by the VP who made the purchase 11(?) years ago). His experience in CNC programming prior to that consisited of sitting at the controller with calculator and blue prints. I will say that it is better than that.

I feel your pain....

[sirius]

Yeah, its a pain alright, lol.

I dont want to make out the other guys who work here are incapable of learning modern technologies, but I know they are very worried about it. They are 'oldschool' drawing board people who only went onto CAD becuse they "had to" to keep a job.....theres no enthusiasm there....."if the company decides to do 3d or change to another 2d package then I suppose Ill have to learn it somehow" etc.

When your using a design program thats as stupid (ie dumb) as Procam, and know nothing else, I can tell you even AutoCAD LT is quite a marathon slog to learn, what with dimension styles, polylines, stretching and arrays etc!. Seriously. I can understand the apprehension.

I agree that maybe back in the day, 11 years ago like our first seats, it might have been cutting edge, and looking at the AutoCAD LT of that time (there is one still on a computer from 1993 or something) I would have to agree that Teksoft would be easier to grasp. However, teksoft is still a DOS based program that happens to run on a windows platform, and it has not moved on in 11 years, well certainly not on design or surface construction or whatever. There has been additions to the CAM, but the design is pathetic in a modern workplace.

There was a guy who set up his own business and took a lot of design files with him from work (over a long period) prior to him leaving......he was so blinkered into thinking it was a fantastic program (dispite my whinging) that he spent £4,500 on a seat for his new business!. However, a certain while later he was reportedly VERY upset and in shock after seeing a demonstration of what Inventor can do!!!!. I now think he has a solidmodeller as his main design tool!. That was an expensive mistake to make!. It must have been a HUGE "wake up call"

Currently, Im also using freeware CAD tools to design at my computer station at work and exporting them to Procam because I cant stand it any longer!. Only trouble is becuase the translators are so pathetic it causes trouble sometimes. Like "St Roman =/u +//hu 2205% 8,0 ^1 ^0.5" for a hole note and half the splines/ellipses missing on the print isnt ideal for the shop floor!!! lol.

I really need to get my head into another CAM system. I know the CAD sucks, but untill I witness what we are missing on CAM I cant really say either way how good or bad Teksoft is as a Machining package - which after all, is what its primarily supposed to be I suppose.

Im always keen to push a tide against using this at work, however, you just have to 'get on with it' dont you sometimes and try and not become a pain in the ass banging on about it!


See ya

Sirius.

[ballendo]

I'm laughing out loud as I read the comments...

My experience was due to the local community college using teksoft products exclusively. I sat in on a class a few years back, and couldn't believe they were forcing this program on the poor saps,er I mean students

Had a talk with the instructor afterwards, and asked why they kept with Teksoft. Sadly he said something about a long term agreement and promises never kept about upgrades...

(I was there as an "industry" representative, since they were supposedly turning out programmers/operators for our shops)

I agree that it's possibly the worst environment ever, and needs to catch up with what else has happened since DOS was a mainstay of CAD...

Thanks for the chuckles,

Ballendo

[sirius]

Glad to be the amusement! lol


Its interesting about colleges isnt it.....I dunno what its like in the States, but over here they just latch onto whatevers free or discounted.

I was discussing with my dad a while ago about the vital role that technology applies in current manufacturing and design companies and the HUGE gap in whats being offered on college courses available to the masses.

I kid you not (!!! !!!) our local college still runs an old add on for Autocad that runs 2.5d programs........the machine tool in use is a modified Bridgeport with a PUNCH TAPE reader. Im not kidding. I did the course about 6 years ago, we had no programs like Teksoft at college, just autocad13, and we had to write the programs long hand on a piece of paper and input the data exactly into the program that prints the punch tape. Then we got some foam and cut a 2d shape in the top. This meant you were quilified in CNC programming and trained for industry - lol. what a joke. The course is still running - same technology, same punch tape drive Bridgeport.

Colleges over here are a joke regarding funding for engineering based subjects, and I feel sorry for the poor sods who leave there and go for a job using a solidmodeller with 5 axis programming to do!!!!!!!!. I couldnt do it.

Over here, you have to pay upto £500 ($950) a DAY to go on a three or four day crash course, as colleges are almost useless. Now if you are out of employment and wanted to do a college course to gain skills for the workplace, you are wasting your time - well around here anyway. Its all about money, what should be provided in educational establishments is substandard, and the commercial courses are preying on that with the excessive rates.

Autodesk made a big mistake dropping the College discounts and freebies, becuse they can no longer afford to keep up with the pace, and now PTC are filling the gap with ProDesktop seats for free....and Autodesk are going to suffer from it when 95% of all students leaving college are only familiar with PTC products. I know it was visa versa before, Im just pointing out it was an unwise move for Autodesk.

As for teksoft, we were always led to believe thier were gonna be vast improvements every release - where as infact all they added once was two or three buttons rather then a pulldown menu for some commands, a new drilling cycle or something and Parasolid imports into the 3d system - which still cant handle solid data, its always surfaces.

I know for a fact that the file translations when a customer asks for his CAD design data has lost us work and customers. When all linetypes go solid, all your layers disappear, it all turns the same colour, non of the features are editable (ie dimensions or hatch etc) poeple were no longer prepared to accept that, and I dont blame them.

I agree that its sort of stagnated since about 1992!!!!!! Infact we still have some manuals from the Dos/Win3.1 days in a drawer at work........and if you look through the newish manuals they are almost identical!!!!!!! same files, same proceedure, same old thing. It just got prettier over the years on a windows interface! lol.

I may post up a picture later, to send shivers down ex-users spines! hahahahah.


Has anyone used CAMworks? I always hear its a good product, perhaps they are doing that right at least!.


See ya

Sirius.

[CNC 74]

Does anyone have procam 2004 2d registry key?