[Txshane]

Its been a while since I have posted for help. I can usually search the archives to find what I am looking for.

I had a spindle drive go bad a few weeks ago. Always when I need my machine the most. Anyhow, I called the same company I have used for years to fly down and take a look. The drive was bad and they gave me a $4K quote not counting the $2k trip to my shop. Things are slow this time of year so the pockets aren't very deep.

I contacted PLC to do a rush repair and got the drive back in 36 hours. This was days before hurricane Sandy hit the east coast. I dropped the drive back in and it was basically plug-n-play. The machine aligned perfectly and ran without any trouble. Problem is, it only ran for 4 hours and had a drive fault again. I sent it back for warranty work but wouldn't you know it took nearly 2 weeks to get it back. Funny how that works when it's on some else's dime.

To sum it up I am still not up and running. The drive parameters have been changed so I keep getting a 39-31 alarm. It says the spindle not stopping in the allowed time. Check for drift, check drive ...etc. During alignment, the spindle makes about 2 revs then faults.

So I installed Motionlink Plus on an old desktop and have it communicating with the drive. What do I need to change or adjust to get it running again. The field tech I spoke with this morning said there is a list of parameters that need to be manually typed in. Where do I get these parameters?

Thanks
Shane

[mike_Kilroy]

1. what was the fault & what was repaired first time around?
2. what was the fault & what was repaired 2nd time around?
3. how did parameters get changed? Only some, or all?
4. where is the tech from who said you need to type parameters in manually?
5. does your computer with motionlink plus on it have internet access?

[maver1ck]

In addition to Kilroy's questions, we also need to clarify which drive package is in your machine and which spindle option you have.

I'm assuming since you mentioned Motionlink Plus that you have the Kollmorgen VFS5 drive (although I use an old version of Motionlink for these), but they also used Vickers (technically also a Kollmorgen product) and Siemens drives which each have different parameter sets, and different ways to communicate with them.

On the VFS5 spindle drives, there are parameters in the spindle drive which need to be set differently depending on what the max spindle speed is on your machine. These machines also use a parameter in the spindle drive to set the tool change orientation, so if you did lose these parameters, you will need to re-set your tool change orientation position before attempting a tool change.

[Txshane]

In addition to Kilroy's questions, we also need to clarify which drive package is in your machine and which spindle option you have.

I'm assuming since you mentioned Motionlink Plus that you have the Kollmorgen VFS5 drive (although I use an old version of Motionlink for these), but they also used Vickers (technically also a Kollmorgen product) and Siemens drives which each have different parameter sets, and different ways to communicate with them.

On the VFS5 spindle drives, there are parameters in the spindle drive which need to be set differently depending on what the max spindle speed is on your machine. These machines also use a parameter in the spindle drive to set the tool change orientation, so if you did lose these parameters, you will need to re-set your tool change orientation position before attempting a tool change.

Your are correct on the drive. It's a VFS5 230 00 203A. I have a high torque 6000 RPM spindle.

The error I keep getting from Motion link is err 14 power bus. The history shows ERR 80 invalid instruction and ERR 83 bad or out of range.

All parameters for this spindle are the same except the following:
X43 says 10, mine is 30
X45 says 1, mine is 3
X47 says 5000, mine is 2000
X50 says 5000, mine is 2000
This is according to motion link when I compare parameters.

[maver1ck]

If I remember correctly, the "err 14 power bus" fault indicates your DC BUS is going out of range (over or under voltage).

Doesn't sound like it has anything to do with your parameter settings.

[Txshane]

what was the fault & what was repaired first time around?

39-81 spindle drive not responding. the spindle enable signal has been set on by A2100 M1SPDL_ENBL parts replaced: CR56U35, CR27U35, 1C80C196KB16, TI SEMICONDUCTOR-IC75174N, TI SEMICONDUCTOR-IC75175N, TI SEMICONDUCTOR-SN75155P, CR22U25, CAPACITOR-CR10U50V, CAPACITOR-CR330U501
what was the fault & what was repaired 2nd time around?

Same exact error. Repair parts: CM100TF12H, HP4503, IC3423D, SEMI-UC3705T
how did parameters get changed? Only some, or all?

X43, X45, X47, X50

where is the tech from who said you need to type parameters in manually?

Detroit

does your computer with motionlink plus on it have internet access?

No but I can make it happen if I need to. It was just the only computer we had with a serial port. I can communicate with the drive via USB to serial through com3 but all of our laptops are 64 bit.

[Txshane]

If I remember correctly, the "err 14 power bus" fault indicates your DC BUS is going out of range (over or under voltage).

Doesn't sound like it has anything to do with your parameter settings.

Is that a fixable issue or is it a drive issue? I don't know much about this side of the machine as you can tell.

[maver1ck]

Whether it is fixable depends on what is causing it to happen. It is possible this fault in the drive history is just telling you the power supply cut the DC Bus unexpectedly, and has nothing to do with the actual problem you have.

Check your DC Bus voltage to make sure the power supply is in the proper range to begin with. Then monitor it when trying to align the spindle. If it changes when you align the spindle (or run the spindle), you need to find out why, but more than likely it will stay constant until the control posts it's fault, which will cause the drives to power down. This would tend to indicate the drive err 14 is just the result of the problem, and not the actual cause.

Back to your original question about parameters, not sure what you are comparing your current parameters to, but since you seem to know what they are supposed to be, you should probably set them properly to ensure that they are not the cause.

[Txshane]

A tech from Mag sent me a VFS5 spindle drive parameter list which shows my Hi torque parameters. I compared them to the parameters that are currently in the drive.

I completely rebooted the machine and tried to align again. Now I am right back where I started from 3 weeks ago with 39-81 spindle drive not responding but this time there is no fault light on the drive. Could this be a bad cable?

The drive was repaired twice with different parts both times which makes me wonder what the real problem is. This machine was bought brand new and has seen very little use yet I have replaced more proxy switches, relays, drives and hard drives than I have on all my machines put together. This machine, along with my Hawk 150 is the biggest mistake we have every made.

[mike_Kilroy]

The error I keep getting from Motion link is err 14 power bus. The history shows ERR 80 invalid instruction and ERR 83 bad or out of range.

All parameters for this spindle are the same except the following:
X43 says 10, mine is 30
X45 says 1, mine is 3
X47 says 5000, mine is 2000
X50 says 5000, mine is 2000
This is according to motion link when I compare parameters.

x43=counter used to count number of failed attempts at something. either number is ok as you should not fail stuff [Lancer 6000rpm is 30, urs shud be 10]

x45=pos test; counter used to count number of failed attempts at orient. either number is ok as you should not fail stuff [Lancer 6000rpm is 3, urs shud be 1]


x47=open loop (not orienting) position gain - so dont care here [Arrow 8000rpm is 2000, urs shud be 5000]
x50= ditto but again during orient so dont care here. [Arrow 8000rpm is 2000, urs shud be 5000]

We normally see UV faults in error history - this is NORMALLY not a faut, but as Marer1ck told you it MAY be a fault if it is the CAUSE instead of RESULT of undervolts..... 99% of the time when it is the CAUSE, the problem is defective POWER SUPPLY (PSR4) instead - and usually happens during accel UPTO speed or heavy machining..... so from your symptoms I would put this fault in the SYMPTOM column as M. did.

The other faults you mentioned are cause from only 1 of 2 things:

1. YOU typed crap in MOtionLink and cause it NOW
2. or the VFS5's battery backed EPROM is dying and needs replaced (we do dailyl).

Hope this helps.

[Txshane]

x43=counter used to count number of failed attempts at something. either number is ok as you should not fail stuff [Lancer 6000rpm is 30, urs shud be 10]

x45=pos test; counter used to count number of failed attempts at orient. either number is ok as you should not fail stuff [Lancer 6000rpm is 3, urs shud be 1]


x47=open loop (not orienting) position gain - so dont care here [Arrow 8000rpm is 2000, urs shud be 5000]
x50= ditto but again during orient so dont care here. [Arrow 8000rpm is 2000, urs shud be 5000]

We normally see UV faults in error history - this is NORMALLY not a faut, but as Marer1ck told you it MAY be a fault if it is the CAUSE instead of RESULT of undervolts..... 99% of the time when it is the CAUSE, the problem is defective POWER SUPPLY (PSR4) instead - and usually happens during accel UPTO speed or heavy machining..... so from your symptoms I would put this fault in the SYMPTOM column as M. did.

The other faults you mentioned are cause from only 1 of 2 things:

1. YOU typed crap in MOtionLink and cause it NOW
2. or the VFS5's battery backed EPROM is dying and needs replaced (we do dailyl).

Hope this helps.

I haven't typed in ANY changes. Just was trying to check zero on the resolver tab. Selecting 'Enable' icon caused the err 14 power bus to prompt.

I now realize that the power bus err was due to the fact it wasn't even on.
I have now checked the bus voltage and there is no drop what-so-ever. A tech from Mag mentioned your name. I am willing to send you this drive if it in is the drive. If it were just a battery I would think that would have been checked by PLC. Then again I wasn't there when it was being repaired.

[mike_Kilroy]

Thanks for calling our tech - he can help diagnose the issue too! I understand you are on the phone with him now (I am not in the office).

I dont want to see you send us the drive yet - it is too early to tell if it really is the problem...

[Txshane]

Thanks for calling our tech - he can help diagnose the issue too! I understand you are on the phone with him now (I am not in the office).

I don't want to see you send us the drive yet - it is too early to tell if it really is the problem...

The conversation with Randy went well. I will be boxing the drive up today and you will have it on Monday. As I told Randy, I now have 2 completely different alarms on the last 2 restarts. I hope you guys can figure it out.

[flyinphill]

So what did you find the problem to be?